The "secret" Rapture theory

[Victoria]

No that's incorrect. I said above:

You said: "where many believe the Body of Christ replaces Israel."

No, we just understand how the scriptures teaches who is the true Israel of God! We do not take the children's bread and give it to the dog, who reject Christ, as the true Messiah of God. All of God's promises are IN CHRIST, there is not one promise from God to those who are not IN CHRIST, by God's eelction of grace, all who are, are the children of God's promises be they Jews or Gentiles.

All I'm trying to convey is that the author of Hebrews surely forgot to mention the BoC in the new covenant, if that's what you've been suggesting The true Israel of God has yet to be born again as a nation.

Paul said the following:

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision [Jews] for the truth of God, to confirm the promises
made unto the fathers:
(Romans 15:8)

I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin... I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy... For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Romans 11:1; 11; 25)


If you read the entire chapter of Romans 11, Paul makes it absolutely clear that God hasn't cast away His people. There is no distinction between Jew & Gentile today who are saved during the dispensation of the grace of God. In the future, there will be that distinction again given Israel will reign w/ Christ on the earth (i.e. Revelation 20; 21).

Romans 9:8“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”​

Once more and please consider this prayerfully and read it slowly:

The promises to Israel are not now null and void as some might suppose. Nor has the Church replaced Israel as some boastfully claim. Indeed Israel has not been abandoned. The promises to Israel "stand" because they were not made to a literal earthly nation, but to a chosen people who bring forth the fruits worthy of repentance. Unfortunately, some people have no concept of the way Old Testament prophecy is fulfilled in Christ. Those promises to Israel are kept, and are fulfilled in Christ, and in whosoever God chooses to call Israel, by reason of their being in Christ. He is the true Israel of God.

As long as you're not suggesting the BoC will be the bride/royal priesthood/holy born again nation reigning w/ Christ on the earth in the future... then it's all good, Red. Hopefully we've cleared up those misunderstandings of the scriptures.

 

[Victoria]

@Red Baker

This paper written appears to be a fair, unbiased assessment of Dispensationalism.
I pray that it helps enlighten your understanding

Full article: Dispensationalism And The Early Church Fathers

The purpose of this paper is not to prove that dispensationalism is the way in which Bible prophecy should be interpreted. The goal is to show that the ideas of dispensationalism developed over time, and can be seen in the earliest days of the church. Many doctrines that we take for granted today started off as thoughts and ideas, but developed over time.

The argument that dispensationalism is a modern thought that was only developed in the 19th century lacks merit. In fact, the veracity of one who brings up such a notion should be called into question. In this paper the works of Justin Martyr, Papias, Irenaeus, and Augustine were discussed. There were other fathers not mentioned that held to primitive dispensational concepts such as Cyprian, Hippolytus, Commodian, Methodius, Melito, and Appolinaris. They all held views that would later develop into dispensationalism[31]. Any serious theologian or church historian would do well in not dismissing dispensationalism as something that is modern. Though one may not agree with it, it is a system that should be respected and considered.

 

[Red Baker]

@Victoria

This paper written appears to be a fair, unbiased assessment of Dispensationalism.
I pray that it helps enlighten your understanding

Thank you for your kind consideration, yet, dear sister, I have already for many years studied this out, afterall, I started in this camp, and saw the many holes in their fortress of faith. Over fifty two years ago, I was taught this and held to this teaching for around three to four years before I no longer could defend its teaching and then I continue searching to come to where I now stand ~ the three post I first made in this thread is the results of my searching, which I wrote around forty two years ago, so a journey of about ten years of searching, praying and trusting God's word to provide for me His truth, which truth is easily defended with scriptures.

But, for your sincere kindness it is indeed welcome/received by me.

The goal is to show that the ideas of dispensationalism developed over time, and can be seen in the earliest days of the church.

I do not doubt that point, after all many false teachings crept into the churches after the death of the apostles.

Acts 20:29​

“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.”

Though one may not agree with it, it is a system that should be respected and considered.

Considered? Yes; respected? No.

Just because a doctrine may have had its roots in the days shortly after the apostles proves very little, after all, infant baptism was introduced into the churches very soon after the apostles, maybe one of the first corrupt teachings that took roots with the so-called "church fathers". When reading many of them I marvel just how little truth many of them taught, they were all over the place, teaching strange doctrines that even many today reject as heresies~that's saying a lot. Thank God, that eternal life is not depended on our understanding of bible truths, if so, who would ever inherit eternal life? No one. Even though, true knowledge is one of the evidence that one has eternal life. Charity and holiness are two of the greatest evidence. God alone knows those that are His.

 

[Victoria]

Thank you for your kind consideration, yet, dear sister, I have already for many years studied this out, afterall, I started in this camp, and saw the many holes in their fortress of faith. Over fifty two years ago, I was taught this and held to this teaching for around three to four years before I no longer could defend its teaching and then I continue searching to come to where I now stand ~ the three post I first made in this thread is the results of my searching, which I wrote around forty two years ago, so a journey of about ten years of searching, praying and trusting God's word to provide for me His truth, which truth is easily defended with scriptures.

But, for your sincere kindness it is indeed welcome/received by me.

Sure thing, brother.

I've learned from a Bible teacher/pastor who used to be in a denomination. I was looking for a Bible believing teacher/pastor w/ no affiliation to Catholicism or any Protestant denomination. If mainstream Christianity, including many Dispensationalists I may add, hold to those same common false doctrines... that there stands out as a red flag, as Paul warns us of the closer we get to the end of the dispensation of grace.

Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
(2 Timothy 4:2-4)

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(Romans 11:25)


Twelve Tribes (hence why twelve disciples were chosen by Jesus) can be scattered. The BoC aren't scattered tribes, we're members of Christ's body. Paul says there's neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ's body. Therefore, how can the BoC be the true Israel when Israel is not only a nation, but is Jewish? Again, Paul said in Romans 11 that God has not cast away Israel as His people. There's a clear distinction between a nation, & a body. Also, there isn't a thirteenth throne mentioned anywhere in Revelation 21, so what are you going to do w/ the apostle Paul?

Notice here in Zechariah 8:23 (future), there again will be a clear distinction between Jew, & Gentile:

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.


I'll remain adamant in where I stand, as Paul instructs, Red. God is faithful, & true. His thoughts/ways are not our thoughts/ways. You may choose to not rightly divide, & oppose Paul's ministry like many have, but that doesn't disprove the Dispensational position. When you quoted Matthew 15:26, you do realize Jesus meant Gentiles, right? Gentiles were dogs in time past.

For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
(Matthew 23:39)

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
(Matthew 24:30)

And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
(Zechariah 12:10)