The personal Word appears in the Old Testament

[Peterlag]

First let me note you address none of what I posted

Jeremiah 1:4-10



Jeremiah 1:4–10 (LEB) — 4 And the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you came out from the womb I consecrated you; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.” 6 Then I said, “Ah, Lord Yahweh! Look, I do not know how to speak, for I am a youth.” 7 But Yahweh said to me, “You must not say, ‘I am a youth,’ for to whomever I send you, you will go, and whatever I command you, you will speak. 8 Do not be afraid of them, for I am with you to deliver you,” declares Yahweh. 9 Then Yahweh stretched out his hand and he touched my mouth, and Yahweh said to me, “Look, I have put my words in your mouth. 10 See, I appoint you this day over the nations and over the kingdoms, to pluck up and to pull down, and to destroy and to tear down, to build and to plant.”





Jer 1:11-16



Jeremiah 1:11–16 (LEB) — 11 And the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, “What are you seeing, Jeremiah?” And I said, “I am seeing a branch of an almond tree.” 12 Then Yahweh said to me, “You did well to see, for I am watching over my word to perform it.” 13 And the word of Yahweh came to me a second time, saying, “What are you seeing?” And I said, “I am seeing a boiling pot, and its face is from the face of the north.” 14 Then Yahweh said to me, “From the north disaster will be unleashed on all the inhabitants of the land. 15 For, look, I am calling to all the clans of the kingdoms of the north,” declares Yahweh, “and they will come and set each one his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all its surrounding walls, and against all the cities of Judah. 16 And I will pass my judgments on them because of all their wickedness in that they have forsaken me, and they made sacrifices to other gods, and they bowed in worship to the works of their hands.





Zech 4:8-9



Zechariah 4:8–9 (LEB) — 8 And the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 9 “The hands of Zerubbabel have founded this house, and his hands will finish it. And you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you.





Gen 15:1-3



Genesis 15:1–3 (LEB) — 1 After these things the word of Yahweh came to Abram in a vision, saying: “Do not be afraid, Abram; I am your shield, and your reward shall be very great.” 2 Then Abram said, “O Yahweh, my Lord, what will you give me? I continue to be childless, and my heir is Eliezer of Damascus.” 3 And Abram said, “Look, you have not given me a descendant, and here, a member of my household is my heir.”



Gen 15:4-7



Genesis 15:4–7 (LEB) — 4 And behold, the word of Yahweh came to him saying, “This person will not be your heir, but your own son will be your heir.” 5 And he brought him outside and said, “Look toward the heavens and count the stars if you are able to count them.” And he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 6 And he believed in Yahweh, and he reckoned it to him as righteousness. 7 And he said to him, “I am Yahweh, who brought you out from Ur of the Chaldeans to give this land to you, to possess it.”

And he is YHWH

Now regarding John 1
John 1:1–3 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

In the beginning here references creation as the context (See verse 3) clearly shows


it seems all things - all creation came into being through the Word

Thus the Word is not a part a creation

Thus the word can only be God

I would comment if I knew what you were talking about. You list Scripture with the word of the Lord a lot in bold and I don't know why or what your point is. You often say I'm ignoring or dodging when the truth is most of the time I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[TomL]

I would comment if I knew what you were talking about. You list Scripture with the word of the Lord a lot in bold and I don't know why or what your point is. You often say I'm ignoring or dodging when the truth is most of the time I don't know what you're talking about.

You did not understand this either

Now regarding John 1
John 1:1–3 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

In the beginning here references creation as the context (See verse 3) clearly shows


it seems all things - all creation came into being through the Word

Thus the Word is not a part a creation

Thus the word can only be God

Do you seriously want us to believe that?


BTW the title of thread is the personal word appears in the Old Testament

And I bold Old Testament texts which speak of the word of God.

The context shows he is a personal being who is called Yahweh or Jehovah

 

[Peterlag]

You did not understand this either



Do you seriously want us to believe that?

I addressed this already. Words are not living creatures. If I give you my word that I will do something that does not mean my word is another living creature. You guys need to grow up in the Scriptures and start to understand a few things.

 

[TomL]

I addressed this already. Words are not living creatures. If I give you my word that I will do something that does not mean my word is another living creature. You guys need to grow up in the Scriptures and start to understand a few things.

Sorry that does not exegete scripture

Extolling your theology is not exegesis of texts

Now regarding John 1
John 1:1–3 (LEB) — 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 This one was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

In the beginning here references creation as the context (See verse 3) clearly shows


it seems all things - all creation came into being through the Word

Thus the Word is not a part a creation

Thus the word can only be God

 

[101G]

Father and son - both - two- count them

GINOLJC, to all.
Ok, let's count them. scripture, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." here the "Word" ... the "Son", your one person, MADE ALL THINGS", and the "Son" is the "Lord", correct. now this. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

now, Toml, is the LORD... all cap "MAKETH ALL THINGS", or is it the "Lord" who is the Word that "MADE ALL THINGS?" remember the "LORD", all caps in Isaiah 44:24 said he was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF" ... and "ALONE" means having no one else present. so, that means he didn't go ..... "Through" anyone else..... (smile).

so, Toml is this two separate and distinct persons who ... "MADE ALL THINGS". and notice the "LORD" said .... I, I, I, I, .. who was ALONE said he, he, he, "maketh all things" now, your answer please.

101G.

 

[101G]

This stated differently

Revelation 3:21 (LEB) — 21 The one who conquers, I will grant to him to sit down with me on my throne, as I also have conquered and have sat down with my Father on his throne.

and shows the Father with the son

Not one but one with another

ERROR, as said sitting is in authority. meaning in POWER. now... who have "ALL POWER?" we suggest you read Matthew 28:18 ... again.

next in revelation chapter 5 the LAMB come and takes the book out of the right hand of the one sitting on the throne, meaning in POWER. so who is the LAMB, and who is the ONE sitting on the throne, (meaning in POWER).... (smile), your answer please. Remember the one sitting ..... Received POWER, (per Rev. 4:11) . now, identify who sits, and who as the Lame stand before the throne..... Read Revelation chapter 5 carefully, BEFORE you answer.

now to throw a monkey Wrench, (to say), into your theology. 101G says it's the same one person who sits on the throne, as well as he who stand before the throne. yes, the same person, and 101G has scripture to back it up too.... YIKES!

now, your respond please. .... by scripture proof, be careful, or was it too late already.....

101G.

 

[101G]

To all,
Addressing the OP. yes, the Word of God is GOD in the OT as well as the NT ..... he GOD, HIMSELF, in an ECHAD of Administration in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", and "RANK".

and as for "Appearing", understand, it is different from a MANIFESTATION of oneself. in the OT God, Jesus, himself used ... well let the word of God speak. Hosea 12:10 "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets."

what is a similitudes? according to Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, in Hebrew, it is,
H1819 דָּמָה damah (daw-maw') v.
1. to compare.
2. (by implication) to resemble, liken, consider.
[a primitive root]
KJV: compare, devise, (be) like(-n), mean, think, use similitudes.

so when God appeared, he used VISIONS, and they can be just as real as spiritual. and similitudes with the "s" at the end. not only in human form, in a pillar of cloud by day, or a burning bush .... ect.....

but all of this was to get us read ready for his, God, Jesus, Manifestation in flesh .... that "WAS" to come... and it did.

101G.

 

[TomL]

ERROR, as said sitting is in authority. meaning in POWER. now... who have "ALL POWER?" we suggest you read Matthew 28:18 ... again.

next in revelation chapter 5 the LAMB come and takes the book out of the right hand of the one sitting on the throne, meaning in POWER. so who is the LAMB, and who is the ONE sitting on the throne, (meaning in POWER).... (smile), your answer please. Remember the one sitting ..... Received POWER, (per Rev. 4:11) . now, identify who sits, and who as the Lame stand before the throne..... Read Revelation chapter 5 carefully, BEFORE you answer.

now to throw a monkey Wrench, (to say), into your theology. 101G says it's the same one person who sits on the throne, as well as he who stand before the throne. yes, the same person, and 101G has scripture to back it up too.... YIKES!

now, your respond please. .... by scripture proof, be careful, or was it too late already.....

101G.

Sorry but this is still

as I also have conquered and have sat down with my Father on his throne.

shows the Father with the son

Not one but one with another

 

[TomL]

GINOLJC, to all.
Ok, let's count them. scripture, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." here the "Word" ... the "Son", your one person, MADE ALL THINGS", and the "Son" is the "Lord", correct. now this. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

now, Toml, is the LORD... all cap "MAKETH ALL THINGS", or is it the "Lord" who is the Word that "MADE ALL THINGS?" remember the "LORD", all caps in Isaiah 44:24 said he was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF" ... and "ALONE" means having no one else present. so, that means he didn't go ..... "Through" anyone else..... (smile).

so, Toml is this two separate and distinct persons who ... "MADE ALL THINGS". and notice the "LORD" said .... I, I, I, I, .. who was ALONE said he, he, he, "maketh all things" now, your answer please.

101G.

Um John 1:3

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

through - speak of agency. God created all things through the word who was with God in the beginning

That still remains two.

lord is Yahweh

Isaiah 44:24 (LEB) — 24 Thus says Yahweh, your redeemer, and he who formed you in the womb: “I am Yahweh, who made everything, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth—who was with me?—

Seems father and son - Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth

 

[101G]

Sorry but this is still

as I also have conquered and have sat down with my Father on his throne.

shows the Father with the son

Not one but one with another

no, try again. no,,,, no, you want get it by yourself. let 101G show you by scripture what.. "WITH" ... means when it comes to the understanding of the Godhead. LISTEN and LEARN.
Scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." here the LORD all cap. is the FIRST.... correct. and the LORD who is the First is ... "WITH" ... the Last correct. now this and LEARN,

Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, "I also?" yes, the LORD is also the Last as well as the First the same one person. because the term "ALSO" means, in addition; too. so, in addition to being the FIRST, he the LORD is .... "ALSO" ... the Last. the same one Person.

now another revelation in this same setting. the LORD who is the First is also the Last, meaning he is "Lord", which is the Son.... for the Lord/Son is JESUS who is the LORD, the Father. (smile)...... YIKES!

now Toml, if you cannot understand this simple fact from scripture, 101G feel sorry for you. and ... ALSO ... if you cannot grasp this commonsense fact of scriptures, then there is nothing else we can discuss.

Good day.

101G.

 

[101G]

M

Um John 1:3

John 1:3 (LEB) — 3 All things came into being through him, and apart from him not one thing came into being that has come into being.

through - speak of agency. God created all things through the word who was with God in the beginning

That still remains two.

lord is Yahweh

Isaiah 44:24 (LEB) — 24 Thus says Yahweh, your redeemer, and he who formed you in the womb: “I am Yahweh, who made everything, who stretched out the heavens alone, who spread out the earth—who was with me?—

Seems father and son - Yahweh alone created the heavens and the earth

My God, can you read? the LORD said he was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF" do you understand what "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF" means? ... guess not. LISTEN and LEARN, "ALONE". it means, having no one else present. if no one else is present .... then he didn't go through someone else. ... HELLO, anyone home?

now, to address this "through"... LISTEN closely and clearly, through means ... "BY" .... let's see it clearly. using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, "BY" LISTEN, and note definition #3.
BY, prep.
1. Near; close; as, sit by me; that house stands by a river.
[L. pressus.]
2. Near, in motion; as, to move, go or pass by a church. But it seems, in other phrases,or with a verb in the past time, to signify past, gone beyond. "The procession is gone by;" "the hour is gone by;" "John went by." We now use past as an equivalent word. The procession is gone past. Gone by is in strictness tautology, as now used; but I apprehend by signifies primarily near.
3. Through, or with, denoting the agent, means, instrument or cause; as, "a city is destroyed by fire;" "profit is made by commerce;" "to take by force." This use answers to that of the Latin per, through, denoting a passing, acting, agency, or instrumentality. did you get that?

we suggest you look this up..... please.
by means "Through" ... and he was .. "BY.... HIMSELE", oh boy, ... meaning it was through/BY HIM ALONE that he, "MADE ALL THINGS", just as John 1:1 in the KJV clearly states. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." so, that "through" has been taken away from you, now what?

my God how simple this is. we suggest you get a KJV and learn God.

now, if you cannot grasp this in scriptures. no need to reply. Good day, .... I hope.

101G.

 

[TomL]

M

My God, can you read? the LORD said he was "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF" do you understand what "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF" means? ... guess not. LISTEN and LEARN, "ALONE". it means, having no one else present. if no one else is present .... then he didn't go through someone else. ... HELLO, anyone home?

now, to address this "through"... LISTEN closely and clearly, through means ... "BY" .... let's see it clearly. using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, "BY" LISTEN, and note definition #3.
BY, prep.
1. Near; close; as, sit by me; that house stands by a river.
[L. pressus.]
2. Near, in motion; as, to move, go or pass by a church. But it seems, in other phrases,or with a verb in the past time, to signify past, gone beyond. "The procession is gone by;" "the hour is gone by;" "John went by." We now use past as an equivalent word. The procession is gone past. Gone by is in strictness tautology, as now used; but I apprehend by signifies primarily near.
3. Through, or with, denoting the agent, means, instrument or cause; as, "a city is destroyed by fire;" "profit is made by commerce;" "to take by force." This use answers to that of the Latin per, through, denoting a passing, acting, agency, or instrumentality. did you get that?

we suggest you look this up..... please.
by means "Through" ... and he was .. "BY.... HIMSELE", oh boy, ... meaning it was through/BY HIM ALONE that he, "MADE ALL THINGS", just as John 1:1 in the KJV clearly states. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." so, that "through" has been taken away from you, now what?

my God how simple this is. we suggest you get a KJV and learn God.

now, if you cannot grasp this in scriptures. no need to reply. Good day, .... I hope.

101G.

Can you?

Jehovah or Yahweh alone - The Old Testament shows there are the least two bearing the name

So Jehovah alone is not a cause of difficulty for the trinitarian position

Perhaps you need to go over some of the posts I have provided on the messenger of Jehovah who bears the name of jehovah

Exodus 3:2–15 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


The Messenger (angel) of Yahweh is called God, the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, Elohim, Yahweh


See also Acts 7:30, 35, 38; Exo 23:20-23; Zech 3:1-7


Where Stephen full of the Holy Spirit reveals it was the angel who appeared to Moses in the burning Bush
And God reveals his name is in the Angel
And the Angel does what only God can do and forgives Joshua’s sin




the Angel of the LORD is referenced in verse 16


Genesis 22:15–16 (KJV 1900) — 15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Genesis 22:16 (LEB) — 16 And he said, “I swear by myself, declares Yahweh, that because you have done this thing and have not withheld your son, your only child,


The Angel is called God by Manoah Judges 13:1-22


The Angel is identified as the God of Bethel - Gen 31:10-13


At Gen 48:3 the angel is identified as God almighty


In certain texts, it seems impossible to distinguish between the angel of the Lord and the Lord himself (Gn 16:7–13; 21:17; 22:11–18; 24:7, 40; 31:11–13; 48:16; Ex 3:2–10; Judges 6:12–14; 13:21, 22). Sometimes the angel is depicted acting for the Lord and yet is addressed as the Lord. God says “you cannot see my face; for man shall not see me and live” (Ex 33:20), and yet Hagar (Gn 16:13), Jacob (Gn 32:30), and Moses (Ex 33:11) are said to have “seen God face to face” in view of their confrontation with this angel. God promises that his very presence will be among the Israelites, and yet it is the angel who goes with them (Ex 23:23). The commander of the army of God is given reverence equal to God’s (Jos 5:13–6:2). The angel seems to possess the full authority and character of God.




The Angel of the Lord appeared to Abraham
Genesis 22:11–19 (KJV 1900) — 11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah-jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen. 15 And the angel of the Lord called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, 16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the Lord, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: 17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; 18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. 19 So Abraham returned unto his young men, and they rose up and went together to Beer-sheba; and Abraham dwelt at Beer-sheba.
The Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses
Exodus 3:2–15 (KJV 1900) — 2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. 3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. 4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. 5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground. 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the Lord said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows; 8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites. 9 Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel is come unto me: and I have also seen the oppression wherewith the Egyptians oppress them. 10 Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt. 11 And Moses said unto God, Who am I, that I should go unto Pharaoh, and that I should bring forth the children of Israel out of Egypt? 12 And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain. 13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
The Angel of the Lord appeared to Hagar
Genesis 16:7–13 (KJV 1900) — 7 And the angel of the Lord found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur. 8 And he said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. 9 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands. 10 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. 11 And the angel of the Lord said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the Lord hath heard thy affliction. 12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren. 13 And she called the name of the Lord that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?




The Angel of the Lord appeared to Manoah
Judges 13:13–22 (KJV 1900) — 13 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware. 14 She may not eat of any thing that cometh of the vine, neither let her drink wine or strong drink, nor eat any unclean thing: all that I commanded her let her observe. 15 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee. 16 And the angel of the Lord said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the Lord. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the Lord. 17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the Lord, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour? 18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? 19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the Lord: and the angel did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on. 20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground. 21 But the angel of the Lord did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the Lord. 22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.
The Angel of the Lord appeared to Jacob
In a dream the Angel of the Lord said to me: Jacob! and I said, ‘Here am I.’
12 He said: Look and observe how all the he-goats that leap upon the flock are striped, speckled and mottled; for I have seen everything Laban is doing to you.
13 I am the God of Bethel, where you anointed a memorial pillar and where you made a vow to Me. Now, get ready, move out of this country and go back to your native land.” [1]
Genesis 28:18–22 (KJV 1900) — 18 And Jacob rose up early in the morning, and took the stone that he had put for his pillows, and set it up for a pillar, and poured oil upon the top of it. 19 And he called the name of that place Beth-el: but the name of that city was called Luz at the first. 20 And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on, 21 So that I come again to my father’s house in peace; then shall the Lord be my God: 22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God’s house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.












[1] Gerrit Verkuyl, trans., The Modern Language Bible: Berkeley Version (Hendrickson Publishers, 1969), Ge 31:11–13.




The angel of the Lord speaks as God, identifies Himself with God, and exercises the responsibilities of God (Genesis 16:7-12;21:17-18;22:11-18;Exodus 3:2; Judges 2:1-4; 5:23; 6:11-24;13:3-22;2 Samuel 24:16;Zechariah 1:12; 3:1; 12:8). In several of these appearances, those who saw the angel of the Lord feared for their lives because they had “seen the Lord.”

 

[TomL]

no, try again. no,,,, no, you want get it by yourself. let 101G show you by scripture what.. "WITH" ... means when it comes to the understanding of the Godhead. LISTEN and LEARN.
Scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." here the LORD all cap. is the FIRST.... correct. and the LORD who is the First is ... "WITH" ... the Last correct. now this and LEARN,

Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." BINGO, "I also?" yes, the LORD is also the Last as well as the First the same one person. because the term "ALSO" means, in addition; too. so, in addition to being the FIRST, he the LORD is .... "ALSO" ... the Last. the same one Person.

now another revelation in this same setting. the LORD who is the First is also the Last, meaning he is "Lord", which is the Son.... for the Lord/Son is JESUS who is the LORD, the Father. (smile)...... YIKES!

now Toml, if you cannot understand this simple fact from scripture, 101G feel sorry for you. and ... ALSO ... if you cannot grasp this commonsense fact of scriptures, then there is nothing else we can discuss.

Good day.

101G.

Afraid not

as I also have conquered and have sat down with my Father on his throne.

shows the Father with the son

Not one but one with another

Isa 41:4 refers to the first and last generation

In any case one with another is not a single personage