Peterlag
Active Member
My Bible says rulers. Not priests. Anybody's sons of a king would be a ruler anywhere he was.
18And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over both the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David's sons were chief rulers.
The New Testament authors favor the prophets. Why?
- Thread starter Wick Stick
- Start date
My Bible says rulers. Not priests. Anybody's sons of a king would be a ruler anywhere he was.
18And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over both the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David's sons were chief rulers.
Wick Stick
Active Member
Yes, the KJV and a few others have imprecisely translated the word Kohanim, which means priests, as rulers. I suppose priests are a kind of ruler, so not wrong. Just imprecise.
They were priests.
Peterlag
Active Member
Yes Priests were kind of a ruler that's why some translations use the word. Here's 22 that do not...
New Living Translation
Benaiah son of Jehoiada was captain of the king’s bodyguard. And David’s sons served as priestly leaders.
Berean Standard Bible
Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and Pelethites; and David’s sons were priestly leaders.
King James Bible
And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over both the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David's sons were chief rulers.
New King James Version
Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over both the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were chief ministers.
New American Standard Bible
Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were chief ministers.
NASB 1995
Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were chief ministers.
NASB 1977
And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were chief ministers.
Amplified Bible
Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was [head] over both the Cherethites and Pelethites [the king’s bodyguards]; and David’s sons were chief [confidential] advisers (officials) [to the king].
Christian Standard Bible
Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were chief officials.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were chief officials.
American Standard Version
and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David's sons were chief ministers.
New Heart English Bible
and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada supervised the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were chief ministers.
Webster's Bible Translation
And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over both the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David's sons were chief rulers.
New Heart English Bible
Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and Pelethites; and David’s sons were priestly leaders.
World English Bible
Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were chief ministers.
Literal Standard Version
and Benaiah son of Jehoiada [is over] both the Cherethite and the Pelethite, and the sons of David have been ministers.
Young's Literal Translation
and Benaiah son of Jehoiada is over both the Cherethite and the Pelethite, and the sons of David have been ministers.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And Banaias the son of Joiada was over the Cerethi and Phelethi: and the sons of David were the princes.
Lamsa Bible
And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over both the nobles and the laborers, and David's sons were the princes.
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
And Benaya, son of Yuyada, over Free Men and over the Laborers, and the sons of David were Princes
JPS Tanakh 1917
and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David's sons were chief ministers.
Brenton Septuagint Translation
and Banaeas son of Jodae was councillor, and the Chelethite and the Phelethite, and the sons of David, were princes of the court.
Wick Stick
Active Member
Just look up the word. Here I'll do it for you:
The Hebrew word is in the Bible 750 times. The KJV translates it as priest 744x.
Peterlag
Active Member
Those reference books show how the Bible translates a word and not what the Greek actually means.
atpollard
Active Member
Since they (David and his Sons) were not of the tribe of “Levi”, they could not be “legitimate” priests of the True God. Thus (in my opinion) David’s sons were more equivalent to a “pagan priest” (which the word is also used to describe and a “priest” of Baal is clearly not a true priest like those of Aaron serving the One True God.)
Wick Stick
Active Member
The screenshot is from blueletterbible.com, and it contains both the Strong's info from the picture, and the definitions per Thayer's lexicon.
Wick Stick
Active Member
That's the point under debate - is David a priest from a different priestly order?
I maintain that David IS in fact a priest, and that he belongs to the order of Melchizedek, rather than the order of Levi. Peter disagrees. I say Psalms 110 seems to say so, but others interpret differently.
But... David does priestly things. He ate the temple shewbread, offered sacrifices, and mediated directly with God when Israel sinned.
As I see it, the office of being a priest after the order of Melchizedek belongs to the king of Jerusalem. Melchizedek was king of Jerusalem. David, too. Jesus as well. By virtue of holding that priestly office, they all were entitled to offer sacrifices and mediate with God.
Peterlag
Active Member
When I see 22 different translations that say something different than Priest. Then I know the word Priest is not there, but more like a Priest like meaning one who has authority.
Wick Stick
Active Member
Well, darn... I only found 18 versions the other way:
ESV: Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over[fn] the Cherethites and the Pelethites, and David’s sons were priests
NLT: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was captain of the king’s bodyguard.[fn] And David’s sons served as priestly leaders
NIV: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Kerethites and Pelethites; and David’s sons were priests
LSB: Benaiah the son of Jehoiada [fn]was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and the sons of David were [fn]priests.
NET: Benaiah son of Jehoida supervised the Kerithites and Pelethites; and David's sons were priests
RSV: Benai'ah the son of Jehoi'ada was over the Cher'ethites and the Pel'ethites; and David's sons were priests
BSB: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and Pelethites; and David’s sons were priestly leaders.
CEV: Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was the commander of David's bodyguard. David's sons were priests.
ERV: Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David's sons were priests.
GTW: Jehoiada's son Benaiah was commander of the Cherethites and the Pelethites. And David's sons were priests.
GNT: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was in charge of David's bodyguards; and David's sons were priests.
ISV: Jehoida's son Benaiah supervised the special forces and mercenaries, and David's sons were priests.
SLT: And Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, and the Cherethites and the Pelethites: and the sons of David were priests.
CPDV: And Benaiah, the son of Jehoiada, was over the Cherethites and Pelethites. But the sons of David were priests.
NAB: Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, was in command of the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were priests.
NRSV: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were priests.
VUL: Banaias autem filius Ioiada super Cherethi et Felethi filii autem David sacerdotes erant
Oh... plus the original Hebrew text. That one's not a translation, but it seems kinda important.
Peterlag
Active Member
I saw them to. Again, the word Priest is not there, but more like a "Priest like" meaning one who has authority.Well, darn... I only found 18 versions the other way:
ESV: Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over[fn] the Cherethites and the Pelethites, and David’s sons were priests
NLT: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was captain of the king’s bodyguard.[fn] And David’s sons served as priestly leaders
NIV: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Kerethites and Pelethites; and David’s sons were priests
LSB: Benaiah the son of Jehoiada [fn]was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and the sons of David were [fn]priests.
NET: Benaiah son of Jehoida supervised the Kerithites and Pelethites; and David's sons were priests
RSV: Benai'ah the son of Jehoi'ada was over the Cher'ethites and the Pel'ethites; and David's sons were priests
BSB: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and Pelethites; and David’s sons were priestly leaders.
CEV: Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was the commander of David's bodyguard. David's sons were priests.
ERV: Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David's sons were priests.
GTW: Jehoiada's son Benaiah was commander of the Cherethites and the Pelethites. And David's sons were priests.
GNT: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was in charge of David's bodyguards; and David's sons were priests.
ISV: Jehoida's son Benaiah supervised the special forces and mercenaries, and David's sons were priests.
SLT: And Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, and the Cherethites and the Pelethites: and the sons of David were priests.
CPDV: And Benaiah, the son of Jehoiada, was over the Cherethites and Pelethites. But the sons of David were priests.
NAB: Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, was in command of the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were priests.
NRSV: Benaiah son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites; and David’s sons were priests.
VUL: Banaias autem filius Ioiada super Cherethi et Felethi filii autem David sacerdotes erant
Oh... plus the original Hebrew text. That one's not a translation, but it seems kinda important.
atpollard
Active Member
I agree that the word is clearly “priests” in the original language, but it is hard to ignore the fact that David’s sons were not “Godly men”, they were more like Aaron’s sons that God struck down and rejected. That makes it hard to view them as “in the order of Melchizedek”.
David (for all his flaws) was “a man after God’s heart”, but not explicitly mentioned in 2 Samuel 8:18, so I could see that as a “maybe” … but the things he did were not really done AS a priest (like eating the shewbread).
Wick Stick
Active Member
That's fair. The thing about David's sons has been kind of a digression.
The argument for David as a priest is more built on the text of Psalm 110, plus some of the things that he did. 1Chronicles 21, where He mediates for the nation of Israel directly with God, for example.
atpollard
Active Member
I think a better way of viewing it is that just as MOSES actions foreshadowed Jesus as Savior of His People (even if Moses was not really the one who saved Israel, God was), so DAVID foreshadows Jesus as a Priestly-King (even though David is not a "true" priest). The purpose is not to point to MOSES or DAVID, but to help us understand CHRIST when he came.
As Jesus said: "One greater than Moses stands before you" ...
The People wanted a Military King (like David) and they got a Priestly King "greater than David" that they did not recognize.
civic
Active Member
yes there are many shadows and types that ppint to Christ as their fulfillment from the OT. I love the book of Hebrews for that very reason.
Wick Stick
Active Member
I think, between Moses and Joshua, that it's Joshua that pre-figures Christ. I used to have a sermon on this. Let's see if I can remember the main points.
Scripture sets up a series of "pairs" of leaders and their successors...
Moses & Joshua
Elijah & Elisha
Zerubbabel & Jeshua
John the Baptist & Jesus
In all cases, the former leader's ministry has a strong emphasis on DON'T and OUT. The latter's ministry is DO and IN.
Moses is "thou shalt NOT" and brings Israel OUT of Egypt. Joshua brings them IN to the Promised Land, and makes them fight to conquer and inherit.
Elijah fights Baal-worship and is exiled from the land, fleeing from a wicked king and eventually being taken to heaven on a high mountain outside of Israel. Elisha returns to the land in power, and ends up putting together a coalition of kings to fight foreign invaders.
Zerubbabel brings them OUT of exile in foreign lands, but it's Jeshua the High Priest who is the restoration of the priesthood and the re-instatement of sacrifices.
John the Baptist's ministry is for the remission of sinning. Jesus is our example of DO THIS.
There's a similarity of names, as well. Joshua, Elisha, Jeshua, and Jesus. All 4 names end with the same Hebrew word "shua" which means "salvation."
After that, there's a bit about negative commandments vs positive ones (positive commandments trump negative ones), and then then the final exhortation to the people is to DO GOOD, and not just AVOID EVIL.
I like that sermon.
