The lack of intimacy within the law

[praise_yeshua]

There are some that believe the Law of God actually expresses the very nature of God. Which is not true. Only Christ has done this.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Such has NEVER been said of the law. Never.

When Christ sought to draw His disciples close to Him, He did not appeal to their study of the law. He appealed to His authority and the Grace He had imparted them.

Notice the words below. Not one single word reference the law. Not one. Many try to apply this the law, Christ's appeal was to Himself....

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

Christ's appeal to His Grace....

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,

Some seek to find intimacy with the law but such is not found. Intimacy is only through Christ. You can't see the real light looking at shadows. You have to turn your vision away from the light to see a shadow.

Jesus warned those who took pleasure in the law.....

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

 

[Soyeong]

There are some that believe the Law of God actually expresses the very nature of God. Which is not true. Only Christ has done this.

God is connected with His word, God is trustworthy, therefore His word is also trustworthy, God is righteous, therefore His word is also righteous, and so forth. A law that is not righteous could not come from a God who is righteous.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

The Son is the exact image of God's nature, which he expressed through living in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Such has NEVER been said of the law. Never.

When Christ sought to draw His disciples close to Him, He did not appeal to their study of the law. He appealed to His authority and the Grace He had imparted them.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and the. Mosaic Law is how how audience knew what sin is, so repenting from our disobedience to is central part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). So Jesus spent his ministry being gracious to us by teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example.

Notice the words below. Not one single word reference the law. Not one. Many try to apply this the law, Christ's appeal was to Himself....

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

In John 15:10, Jesus used a parallel statement to equate his commands with those of the Father. In John 14:24, Jesus said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so he taught the same commands as the Father taught to Moses.

Christ's appeal to His Grace....

Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you,

Some seek to find intimacy with the law but such is not found. Intimacy is only through Christ. You can't see the real light looking at shadows. You have to turn your vision away from the light to see a shadow.

The Hebrews word "yada" refers to imitate knowledge gained through experience, such as in Genesis 4:1, Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived and gave birth to Cain. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know (yada) Him and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught to walk in His way through the Mosaic Law, and in John 17:3, knowing God and Jesus is eternal life.

Jesus warned those who took pleasure in the law.....

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying obeying God's commandments, and in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, so eternal life can be found in the Scriptures and the Pharisees were correct to search for it there, but they needed to recognize that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus and come into relationship with him for eternal life.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God is connected with His word, God is trustworthy, therefore His word is also trustworthy, God is righteous, therefore His word is also righteous, and so forth. A law that is not righteous could not come from a God who is righteous.

That law never changed your heart. Christ did that.

The Son is the exact image of God's nature, which he expressed through living in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law.

Why was the Son manifest if the law was already manifesting the nature of God?

I'm going to stop right here and wait for this answer. You're theology is empty. You have disparaged the lovely Son of God through your false Doctrine and you don't even realize it. Sad.

Christ alone is the express image of God. The law never manifested such. Never. Yet, here you are demanding it has.

 

[praise_yeshua]

In John 15:10, Jesus used a parallel statement to equate his commands with those of the Father. In John 14:24, Jesus said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father, so he taught the same commands as the Father taught to Moses.

Again. You are disparaging Jesus Christ. The one you claim is your savior. Jesus was expressing being ONE with the Father. A fact those that heard Him denied. Your theology is exposing your bias against the Orthodox teaching of the Holy Trinity.

I'll post it again. Jesus actually said...

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

The Hebrews word "yada" refers to imitate knowledge gained through experience, such as in Genesis 4:1, Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived and gave birth to Cain. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he might know (yada) Him and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught to walk in His way through the Mosaic Law, and in John 17:3, knowing God and Jesus is eternal life.

So when have you had such an intimate encounter with the law to the point of "experiencing" what Adam did in "knowing" Eve? You don't even realize that you're confirming what I've already said. The law condemns you in every way. Yet you reject this.

However, contrary to your sinfulness, Christ has sought to free you from such. How intimate do you get through the New Birth? The law hasn't birth you in such a way. Thank you making this argument for me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying obeying God's commandments, and in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus said that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, so eternal life can be found in the Scriptures and the Pharisees were correct to search for it there, but they needed to recognize that the goal of everything in Scripture is to testify about how to know Jesus and come into relationship with him for eternal life.

You didn't come into an eternal relationship with the Son through keeping the law of God. What nonsense is this? You're denying the need of the New Birth and the very death of Jesus Christ. If what you say is true, then Jesus didn't need to die for you. You could just "shine" through keeping the law.

 

[Dizerner]

The Law is Good it just isn't Grace.

God forbid we call the Law bad in any way except to try to be justified by it.

We must not ever act like God owes us Grace to save us from the dirty old bad Law.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Law is Good it just isn't Grace.

God forbid we call the Law bad in any way except to try to be justified by it.

We must not ever act like God owes us Grace to save us from the dirty old bad Law.

The law demanded death for children that cursed their father and mother? What good is that?

Is that how you treat your children? Is that how God treated you?

 

[Soyeong]

That law never changed your heart. Christ did that.

I didn't say that the law changed my heart or that Christ didn't do that.

Why was the Son manifest if the law was already manifesting the nature of God?

I'm going to stop right here and wait for this answer. You're theology is empty. You have disparaged the lovely Son of God through your false Doctrine and you don't even realize it. Sad.

Christ alone is the express image of God. The law never manifested such. Never. Yet, here you are demanding it has.

God did not just give His people the law, but also send Jesus in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by teaching us to obey it (Acts 3:25-26.

If God were to take all of the aspects of His nature that His word was given to teach us how to express, such as righteousness, holiness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, etc., and personify them, then that would be the Son, and that would be why he lived in sinless obedience to God's word.

I have said nothing disparaged the lovely Son of God, so you're just making things up again. I didn't say that anyone other that Christ is the exact image of God's nature. I have not demanded it has.

 

[Soyeong]

Again. You are disparaging Jesus Christ. The one you claim is your savior. Jesus was expressing being ONE with the Father. A fact those that heard Him denied. Your theology is exposing your bias against the Orthodox teaching of the Holy Trinity.

I'll post it again. Jesus actually said...

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

I've said nothing to disparage Jesus Christ. Jesus is one with the Father, so his commands were the same as the Father. I've said nothing against the Trinity, you're making things up again.

So when have you had such an intimate encounter with the law to the point of "experiencing" what Adam did in "knowing" Eve? You don't even realize that you're confirming what I've already said. The law condemns you in every way. Yet you reject this.

However, contrary to your sinfulness, Christ has sought to free you from such. How intimate do you get through the New Birth? The law hasn't birth you in such a way. Thank you making this argument for me.

God is righteous, so when we practice righteous in obedience to His law, we are growing in a relationship with Him by experiencing who He is. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not born again. A chip off the block is someone who has the same nature or character as their father expressed through doing the same works, so that is the sense that Jesus is the Son of God insofar as he is the exact image of God's nature expressed through setting an example for us to follow of how to walk obedience to His law, and that is the sense that we are born again as children of God when we are partaking in the divine nature through following Christ's example. This is also why those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law (Romans 8:4-14).

God did not give the law to condemn His children, but rather He knows how to give good gifts to His children that are for our own good in order to bless us (Deuteronomy 6:24, 10:12-13).

 

[praise_yeshua]

I didn't say that the law changed my heart or that Christ didn't do that.


God did not just give His people the law, but also send Jesus in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by teaching us to obey it (Acts 3:25-26.

If God were to take all of the aspects of His nature that His word was given to teach us how to express, such as righteousness, holiness, goodness, justice, mercy, faithfulness, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, self-control, etc., and personify them, then that would be the Son, and that would be why he lived in sinless obedience to God's word.

I have said nothing disparaged the lovely Son of God, so you're just making things up again. I didn't say that anyone other that Christ is the exact image of God's nature. I have not demanded it has.

The Law is Good it just isn't Grace.

God forbid we call the Law bad in any way except to try to be justified by it.

We must not ever act like God owes us Grace to save us from the dirty old bad Law.

I once believed the way you both believe. It is why I'm talking to you. The only thing that changed me was I heard the real Gospel and Christ saved. You wonder why I'm fearful for Arminians.... This is why.

 

[Soyeong]

The Law is Good it just isn't Grace.

God forbid we call the Law bad in any way except to try to be justified by it.

We must not ever act like God owes us Grace to save us from the dirty old bad Law.

God is gracious to us by teaching us to obey His law (Psalms 119:29, Exodus 33:13, Genesis 6:8-9, Ephesians 2:8-10, Romans 1:5, Titus 2:11-14).

While we do not earn our justification as a wage as the result of obeying God's law (Romans 4:1-5), it is nevertheless also true that only doers of the law will be justified (Romans 2:13), so there must be a reason why our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage.

 

[Dizerner]

it is nevertheless also true that only doers of the law will be justified (Romans 2:13), so there must be a reason why our justification requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage.

You're not handling the logic of Romans 2-3 correctly there.

Doing the Law perfectly is the only way to be justified by the Law, that's Paul's point.

"Now a way apart from the Law has appeared."

Notice the phrase "apart from the Law," yet you keep going back to it!

 

[Soyeong]

You're not handling the logic of Romans 2-3 correctly there.

Doing the Law perfectly is the only way to be justified by the Law, that's Paul's point.

"Now a way apart from the Law has appeared."

Notice the phrase "apart from the Law," yet you keep going back to it!

Nowhere does the Bible say that obeying God's law perfectly is the way to becoming justified, but rather even if someone did that, then they still wouldn't earn their justification as a wage (Romans 4:1-5). Furthermore, Paul didn't say in Romans 2:13 that only those obey the law perfectly will be justified. In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophet is through faith in Christ.

The one and only way to become righteous is through faith and no amount of works cause us to become righteous, even perfect obedience. To become righteous means to become someone who practices righteousness. God's law is His instructions for how to practice righteousness, not for how to become righteous. For example, God's law reveals that helping the poor is a way to practice righteousness, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous because the only way to become righteous is through faith. So becoming someone who helps the poor though faith is part of what someone becomes when they become righteous through faith, which is why the same faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to practice righteousness in obedience to God's law through faith (Romans 3:27-31).

 

[praise_yeshua]

Nowhere does the Bible say that obeying God's law perfectly is the way to becoming justified, but rather even if someone did that, then they still wouldn't earn their justification as a wage (Romans 4:1-5). Furthermore, Paul didn't say in Romans 2:13 that only those obey the law perfectly will be justified. In Romans 3:21-22, it does not say that the Law and the Prophets testify that the righteousness of God comes through perfect obedience, but rather the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophet is through faith in Christ.

The one and only way to become righteous is through faith and no amount of works cause us to become righteous, even perfect obedience. To become righteous means to become someone who practices righteousness. God's law is His instructions for how to practice righteousness, not for how to become righteous. For example, God's law reveals that helping the poor is a way to practice righteousness, but no amount of helping the poor will ever cause someone to become righteous because the only way to become righteous is through faith. So becoming someone who helps the poor though faith is part of what someone becomes when they become righteous through faith, which is why the same faith by which we are declared righteous does not abolish our need to practice righteousness in obedience to God's law through faith (Romans 3:27-31).

This is so inconsistent with your previous statements that I believe I'm done. I can't discuss this with someone that is so blindly makes such contradictory claims.

 

[Soyeong]

This is so inconsistent with your previous statements that I believe I'm done. I can't discuss this with someone that is so blindly makes such contradictory claims.

I'm sorry that you feel that way, can you please state which of my previous statements that you think that my post is inconsistent with?