The Defeated Foe

Without this primary truth, there is nowhere to stand in confidence of your salvation.
That is what you call the truth of eternal security. I believe there is however a way one can have confidence without believing that at least the way that you do. If one keeps their fellowship with the Lord alive and vital they are going to be knowing of the promptings and leadings of the Lord on a daily basis. The Spirit is bearing witness to you that you are a Son of God. Rom 8:16

It doesn't just come from embracing some theological position through mental assent.....that can be dangerous.


What's the reality of what's taking place in one's spirit on a daily basis? Heb 12:7 says a similar thing when it says when you're a chastened of the Lord and you know he has reproved you KNOW THIS......that's a sign you're walking in a reality as his child. Things like that can give you confidence and assurance. If you don't have that be concerned.

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. Heb 12:7

So one thing I have great concern about the OSAS folks. If I asked them are you periodically conscious of God seeking to correct you or discipline you or you know he's leading you in other things of life. If they say NO I'm never conscious of that but hey.....my salvation is secure.....ah they might want to reexamine that. In fact THEY BETTER for I'd never want them to get over into the next world. and discover they made the mistake of all mistakes.
 
So one thing I have great concern about the OSAS folks. If I asked them are you periodically conscious of God seeking to correct you or discipline you or you know he's leading you in other things of life. If they say NO I'm never conscious of that but hey.....my salvation is secure.....ah they might want to reexamine that. In fact THEY BETTER for I'd never want them to get over into the next world. and discover they made the mistake of all mistakes.
It's God who "works" in us (Phl 2:13), but this is only by way of total dependence upon Him, and zero dependence on ourself. When we depend on ourselves, that's when we are not depending on Him. Though we know that because of the indwelling of the old man we will sin, but the difference now is that it isn't deliberate or "willful" (Heb 10:26).

Sinful habits gone, and sins are now only impulsive (jealousy, wrath, envy, etc.), no more on purpose; and this dependence isn't about salvation but about spiritual growth in the Son (Eph 4:15).

We don't "keep" ourselves "from falling," He keeps us from falling (Jude 1 :24), which answers to the truth of eternal security. If you're truly saved, it will manifest itself by continuous obedience, which reveals His continuous "work" in us! If anyone discontinues obeying God it establishes the truth that He is yet to be reborn (1Jn 1:19).
 
It's God who "works" in us (Phl 2:13), but this is only by way of total dependence upon Him, and zero dependence on ourself. When we depend on ourselves, that's when we are not depending on Him. Though we know that because of the indwelling of the old man we will sin, but the difference now is that it isn't deliberate or "willful" (Heb 10:26).

Sinful habits gone, and sins are now only impulsive (jealousy, wrath, envy, etc.), no more on purpose; and this dependence isn't about salvation but about spiritual growth in the Son (Eph 4:15).

We don't "keep" ourselves "from falling," He keeps us from falling (Jude 1 :24), which answers to the truth of eternal security. If you're truly saved, it will manifest itself by continuous obedience, which reveals His continuous "work" in us! If anyone discontinues obeying God it establishes the truth that He is yet to be reborn (1Jn 1:19).
Any time anyone sins its willful whether or not the person is saved or not. Any believer who sins does it willfully. There are also 2 classes of sins, the sins of commission and sins of omission.

hope this helps !!!
 
It's God who "works" in us (Phl 2:13), but this is only by way of total dependence upon Him, and zero dependence on ourself.
I get your words and agree with them depending though on how extreme you're taking them. One still has to do their part in obeying and corporate with him.
Sinful habits gone, and sins are now only impulsive (jealousy, wrath, envy, etc.), no more on purpose; and this dependence isn't about salvation but about spiritual growth in the Son (Eph 4:15).
No offence but this is just mumble jumbo. A few elements of truth but mixed with things you've contrived. Sinful habits are gone? When it comes to identification our old man died the death of the cross but there's a daily walking that out by keeping our minds renewed with God's word. That word transforms us. Sanctification though is a process. The carnal Corinthians didn't have everything gone, as you say. We hope they eventually did become conformed to the image of Christ.

Are sins now are only impulsive? What's that supposed to mean? Sin's always impulsive before Christ and after you receive him. You say our sins now are not on purpose? Well sure there's always a place we can say sorry I didn't mean to say offend one that wasn't my purpose but generally when we do sin it most

certainly is on purpose. I would say the following though.....if ;and when we sin now it doesn't reflect what we truly are.....it's like going to the shower with your socks on. One may do it but there something about it that just doesn't feel right. It's not truly what we're about. But you can't say we didn't do it on purpose.
 
We don't "keep" ourselves "from falling," He keeps us from falling (Jude 1 :24), which answers to the truth of eternal security.
But you're imposing that upon the text that God as you would say does everything in every measure. Yes God keeps us but we work along with him and cooperate with him in keeping things too. The following verse was written to Christians. I can show other similar verses too

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 Jn 5:21

So God does keep things but that doesn't mean we don't have a keeping of things as well.

If you're truly saved, it will manifest itself by continuous obedience, which reveals His continuous "work" in us!
I don't want to be cynical of your statement just for the sake of being so. But this statement can be deceptive . A religious person can do many religious things. Go to church, do good deeds or having a form of godliness but denying the power thereof. They can deceive themselves that they're in continual obedience but they could hear (and I hope they won't) but they could hear "I never knew you...depart" "But Lord we did this and we did that and we did this and that" (based on Matt 17:23 )

What one really needs to be asking is do I on a daily basis truly and genuinely know I"m hearing from God and are knowing his promptings. Is my relationship and fellowship with him real or is it just a religious form. Thus he stated what I said before.....you have the witness in your spirit that you are a child of God.

And as I stated even the sign that you might be chastened by the Lord where you know in the spirit he's reproved you or rebuked you......(which is a good thing) it shows you are his child. If someone never experiences that they better re-examine their spiritual life. Is it just a religious form with religious trapping one has.....or are they in genuine fellowship.
 
Any time anyone sins its willful whether or not the person is saved or not. Any believer who sins does it willfully. There are also 2 classes of sins, the sins of commission and sins of omission.

hope this helps !!!
It's not us wanting to sin, but the "old man," and we are no longer a part of it (Ro8:9). The primary difference between our sinning before rebirth and after rebirth is in our desires. Before it was our desire, because we were dominated by the sin nature (Ro 6:14), we didn't have the desire to "please God" (Phl 2:13) until He "worked" this in us! This answers to Paul demonstrating the difference between him in his new "I" and old "I" (Ro 7:17, 20).

John Gill: "but I am carnal, sold under sin." from hence to the end of the chapter many are of opinion, that the apostle speaks in the person of an unregenerate man, or of himself as unregenerate; but nothing is more clear, than that he speaks all along of himself in the first person, "I am carnal," "I myself," as in Romans 7:25, and in the present tense of what he then was and found; whereas, when he speaks of his unregenerate state, and how it was with him under the first convictions of sin, he speaks of them as things past, Romans 7:5; besides, several things which are said by the apostle can neither agree with him, nor any other, but as regenerate; such as to "hate evil," "delight in the law of God," and "serve it with the mind," Romans 7:15. Moreover, the distinctions between flesh and spirit, the inward and the outward man, and the struggle there is between them, are to be found in none but regenerate persons; and to say no more, the thanksgiving for deliverance from sin by Christ can only come from such; nor are any of the things said inapplicable to men that are born again, as will appear by the consideration of them as they follow: for when the apostle says, "I am carnal"; his meaning is, either that he was so by nature, and as he saw himself when sin through the law became exceeding sinful to him; or as he might be denominated from the flesh or corruption of nature which was still in him, and from the infirmities of the flesh he was attended with; just as the Corinthians, though sanctified in Christ Jesus, and called to be saints, are said to be "carnal" on account of their envying, strife, and divisions, 1 Corinthians 3:1, or in comparison of the "spiritual" law of God, which was now before him, and in which he was beholding his face as in a glass, and with which when compared, the holiest man in the world must be reckoned carnal. He adds, "sold under sin"; he did not "sell himself" to work wickedness, as Ahab, 1 Kings 21:25, and others; he was passive and not active in it; and when at any time he with his flesh served the law of sin, he was not a voluntary, but an involuntary servant; besides, this may be understood of his other I, his carnal I, his unrenewed self, the old man which is always under sin, when the spiritual I, the new man, is never under the law of sin, but under the governing influence of the grace of God.

Paul sinned against his will (unwilful), which is what he meant by being a "captive" (v23); he never desired to sin after being saved, but since we still have the sin nature, we will still sin, just never willfully (Heb 10:26). Paul said his sins are no longer what he wanted to do (v15).
 
Yes God keeps us but we work along with him and cooperate with him in keeping things too. The following verse was written to Christians. I can show other similar verses too

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 Jn 5:21

So God does keep things but that doesn't mean we don't have a keeping of things as well.
The meaning of "God works in you" is that you will continue to desire pleasing Him by obeying Him (His desire, not ours after the old man). Our obedience comes from Him "working" obedience in us; otherwise we would not have the desire to please Him, because we would still be under the desire of our old man ("dominion" - Ro 6:14).

We have "good works" only by being dependent of God establishing us is them.
 
But you're imposing that upon the text that God as you would say does everything in every measure. Yes God keeps us but we work along with him and cooperate with him in keeping things too. The following verse was written to Christians. I can show other similar verses too

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 Jn 5:21
Scripture instructs us to be in obedience, which is for us to know what is good and what is evil! If you're reborn you will never desire the old man again!
 
We have "good works" only by being dependent of God establishing us is them.
My point is we still have to do things....WE DO.....in cooperating with God. When he says WE ARE to keep ourselves from some things......it's not just God doing it all.

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 Jn 5:21
 
My point is we still have to do things....WE DO.....in cooperating with God. When he says WE ARE to keep ourselves from some things......it's not just God doing it all.

Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. 1 Jn 5:21
My point is that God is the cause of all our obedience by working in us to "will and to do of His good pleasurer" (Phl 2:13). If He didn't do this we wouldn't be obedient, eventually going our own way; because of the continuing indwelling of the "old man." It's God using the new nature and "working" in us! We desire to please God because of this "work."
 
My point is that God is the cause of all our obedience by working in us to "will and to do of His good pleasurer" (Phl 2:13).
Not in absolute totality he isn't. Christians are given many exhortations to do certain things. Sometimes they do them and sometimes they don't. When they do they've chosen to yield. If one is going to say any obedience is God alone that would say he really didn't want their obedience when they didn't obey.
 
Paul sinned against his will (unwilful), which is what he meant by being a "captive" (v23); he never desired to sin after being saved, but since we still have the sin nature, we will still sin, just never willfully (Heb 10:26).
Nope I'd say you're off the rails in saying this but let's look at the verse,

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ;Heb 10:26

What that's really saying is you don't embrace sin as a continual pattern of life that you choose not to feel remorse over. It's not meaning a Christian can't by an act of their will commit a sin. If they do we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous.


 
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Paul sinned against his will (unwilful), which is what he meant by being a "captive" (v23); he never desired to sin after being saved, but since we still have the sin nature, we will still sin, just never willfully (Heb 10:26). Paul said his sins are no longer what he wanted to do (v15).
Actually what Paul stated goes against Calvinist thinking right here. He was talking about from the natural he could like the law of God and want to obey it, which Calvinists would claim no unsaved person want's God's ways. But the natural man himself doesn't have the capacity to actually overcome sin. That doesn't mean he doesn't want to. Then Paul adds there is freedom to overcome sin as one identifies with Christ and his work he accomplished. (through out Rom 8)

Now I know many debate was Paul in Rom 7 talking about before born again or before. Regardless....even if one says he was saved and he sinned it still doesn't mean he didn't choose to by and act of his will. What it means at times we're not built up in the Spirit with spiritual strength and the natural man and it's drives can overwhelm us. We still did choose though by and act of our will to yield to a wrong thing.

We say it all the time. One may do something that doesn't reflect their true character. eg they may loose their temper and swear. It's not the real them but they still chose by and act of their will to slip into sin. We can't say they didn't.
 
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ;Heb 10:26
To me, this is saying that one continues to sin without repenting, even after receiving knowledge of the truth of being a lost sinner. They now know to repent but do not do it, instead continue on in sin.
What that's really saying is you don't embrace sin as a continual pattern of life that you choose not to feel remorse over. It's not meaning a Christian can't by an act of their will commit a sin.
The issue is that if God is causing ("working") you to desire Him, you will not want to sin "willfully." If one sins willfully he is yet to be reborn.
If they do we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous.
This forgiveness is only for those who are reborn and do not sin intentionally. Willful sinning has no forgiveness (Num 15:25, esp. 30; Heb 10:26).
 
To me, this is saying that one continues to sin without repenting, even after receiving knowledge of the truth of being a lost sinner. They now know to repent but do not do it, instead continue on in sin.
I don't care for long passages of scripture to be put down but in this case I think we must. Let's look at the context, I' 'll give commentary throughout,

Therefore, brothers, (he's talking about brothers) since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Placed by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way opened for us through the curtain of His body, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and our bodies washed with pure water (this is believers who have went through stages of sanctification, in other words they are saved) Let us hold resolutely to the hope (that means they can let go of it) we profess, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds. Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching. if we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, (that means those who have received, received, received the knowledge of the truth not just heard it) no further sacrifice for sins remains, (but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?30For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.” (his people) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Remember the early days that you were in the light.In those days, (talking of the early days when THEY were in the light) you endured a great conflict in the face of suffering. Sometimes you were publicly exposed to ridicule and persecution; at other times you were partners with those who were so treated. You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, knowing that you yourselves had a better and permanent possession.(Now he basically exhorts them not to have went through all they did and have it end up for no purpose) So do not throw away your confidence; it holds a great reward. You need to persevere, so that after you have done the will of God, you will receive what He has promised. For,“In just a little while, He who is coming will come and will not delay. But My righteous one will live by faith; and if he shrinks back, (that means go back to Judaism and to have rejected the blood of Christ which is the only way applying it by faith to be saved) I will take no pleasure in him.”But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. (He wasn't saying it wasn't possible for those in the light, and were born again to do so. Some probably did so earlier. When he says we are not of those which shrink back....well they weren't. They had shown that they were going to be faithful. But he's giving a continual exhortation to continue that way)


 
if we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, (that means those who have received, received, received the knowledge of the truth not just heard it) no further sacrifice for sins remains, (but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries.
They only "received the knowledge of the truth," but have not taken it to heart to believe in it. They only "received" (obtained) the knowledge, but continuing in sin manifests they didn't believe nor received the truth into the heart; received the knowledge of the truth, but not the saving of the truth.

This passage and Hebrews 6:4-6 are parallel in meaning and are all based on the inference of the words "If we sin willfully . . . "If they shall fall away" (Heb 6:6). All the "if" is based on whether or not a Christian could apostatize, for none of these passages show or even agrees that a Christian can apostatize. These passages are one type of Scriptures which makes it difficult on those who casually study the Word, and miss the intention of many hyperbolic expressions of Scripture.
 
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