SOTERIOLOGY 101, Provisionism [ Calvinists of course can be excluded.]
- Thread starter FreeInChrist
- Start date
He fails first to see it, and then he wants to affirm it as well as the KJV while ignoring the argument posted showing it cannot be a reference to initial faith.
Unbelievers are not receiving these gifts
Galatians 5:22–25 (NASB95) — 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.
It is those who live by the Spirit who are to walk by the fruit of the Spirit
Last edited:
civic
Active Member
Yep
Assumption is his game hereYep
He ignores who it is Paul is speaking to.
Galatians 5:7–18 (NASB95) — 7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you will bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. 12 I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves. 13 For you were called to freedom, brethren; only do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another. 16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
Last edited:
brightfame52
Active Member
Im not ignoring them, both are true, you ignoring the kjv
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
In fact the greek word πίστις there is translated Faith faith (239x) and fidelity 1 x and faithfulness 0 x
brightfame52
Active Member
you ignoring the kjv
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
In fact the greek word πίστις there is translated Faith faith (239x) and fidelity 1 x and faithfulness 0 x
Nope I explained how initial faith cannot be the issue, and you just ignored it
As not one of the other translations posted or even the KJV are speaking of the original faith, which is needed to receive the Spirit and his gifts
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
And it is when the Spirit is indwelt that his gifts are granted
additionally
πίστις, εως, ἡ (Hes., Hdt.+; inscr., pap. LXX; Ep. Arist. 37; Philo, Joseph,) faith, trust.
1. that which causes trust and faith—a. faithfulness, reliability (X., An. 1, 6, 3; 3, 3, 4; Aristot., Eth. Eud, 7, 2 p. 1237b, 12; Polyb. 7, 12, 9; 38, 1, 8 al.; Herodian 2, 14, 4 al.; Dit., Syll.3 675, 22, Or. 557, 16; PTebt. 27, 6; 51 [II bc]; POxy. 494, 9; 705, 32; Ps 32:4; Pr 12:22; Jos., Ant. 2, 61; Test. Ash, 7:7) w. κρίσις and ἔλεος Mt 23:23. (Opp. ἀπιστία as Hes., Op. 370) τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ καταργεῖν nullify the faithfulness of God (cf. Ps 32:4; Hos 2:22) Ro 3:3. πᾶσαν π. ἐνδείκνυσθαι ἀγαθήν show all good faith (fulness) Tit 2:10 (cf. BGU 314, 19 μετὰ πίστεως ἀγαθῆς). W. other virtues Gal 5:22 (on πίσπις, πραΰτης cf. Sir 45:4; 1:27). W. ὑπομονή 2 Th 1:4. τὴν πίστιν τετήρηκα I have remained faithful or loyal (πίστιν τηρεῖν as Polyb. 6, 56, 13; 10, 37, 5; Jos., Bell. 2, 121;6, 345; Dit., Or, 339, 46f; Gk. Inscr. Brit. Mus. III 587b, 5f [Dssm., LO 262-LAE 309, esp. note 3]) 2 Ti 4:7, though this would be classified by some under 3 below. S. also 1c below
BTW these were already saved believers
Galatians 5:13–18 (LEB) — 13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not let your freedom become an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. 16 But I say, live by the Spirit, and you will never carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, for these are in opposition to one another, so that whatever you want, you may not do these things. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Last edited:
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. Other apostolic teachings collaborates it, 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Belief of the Truth/Faith is by the Sanctification of the Spirit, another way of saying "the fruit of the Spirit" Believing is a sanctification blessing
Um not what it states
You have two factors necessary for salvation: sanctification of the Spirit and faith.
Scripture is clear: faith is necessary to receive the Spirit
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
BTW you have God giving to unbelievers
Galatians 5:22–23 (LEB) — 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self control. Against such things there is no law.
Last edited:
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. Other apostolic teachings collaborates it, 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Belief of the Truth/Faith is by the Sanctification of the Spirit, another way of saying "the fruit of the Spirit" Believing is a sanctification blessing
You ignored much
I explained how initial faith cannot be the issue, and you just ignored it
As not one of the other translations posted or even the KJV are speaking of the original faith, which is needed to receive the Spirit and his gifts
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
And it is when the Spirit is indwelt that his gifts are granted
additionally
πίστις, εως, ἡ (Hes., Hdt.+; inscr., pap. LXX; Ep. Arist. 37; Philo, Joseph,) faith, trust.
1. that which causes trust and faith—a. faithfulness, reliability (X., An. 1, 6, 3; 3, 3, 4; Aristot., Eth. Eud, 7, 2 p. 1237b, 12; Polyb. 7, 12, 9; 38, 1, 8 al.; Herodian 2, 14, 4 al.; Dit., Syll.3 675, 22, Or. 557, 16; PTebt. 27, 6; 51 [II bc]; POxy. 494, 9; 705, 32; Ps 32:4; Pr 12:22; Jos., Ant. 2, 61; Test. Ash, 7:7) w. κρίσις and ἔλεος Mt 23:23. (Opp. ἀπιστία as Hes., Op. 370) τὴν πίστιν τοῦ θεοῦ καταργεῖν nullify the faithfulness of God (cf. Ps 32:4; Hos 2:22) Ro 3:3. πᾶσαν π. ἐνδείκνυσθαι ἀγαθήν show all good faith (fulness) Tit 2:10 (cf. BGU 314, 19 μετὰ πίστεως ἀγαθῆς). W. other virtues Gal 5:22 (on πίσπις, πραΰτης cf. Sir 45:4; 1:27). W. ὑπομονή 2 Th 1:4. τὴν πίστιν τετήρηκα I have remained faithful or loyal (πίστιν τηρεῖν as Polyb. 6, 56, 13; 10, 37, 5; Jos., Bell. 2, 121;6, 345; Dit., Or, 339, 46f; Gk. Inscr. Brit. Mus. III 587b, 5f [Dssm., LO 262-LAE 309, esp. note 3]) 2 Ti 4:7, though this would be classified by some under 3 below. S. also 1c below
BTW these were already saved believers
Galatians 5:13–18 (LEB) — 13 For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not let your freedom become an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another. 16 But I say, live by the Spirit, and you will never carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh, for these are in opposition to one another, so that whatever you want, you may not do these things. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
Last edited:
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit. Other apostolic teachings collaborates it, 2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Belief of the Truth/Faith is by the Sanctification of the Spirit, another way of saying "the fruit of the Spirit" Believing is a sanctification blessing
Um not what it states
You have two factors necessary for salvation: sanctification of the Spirit and faith.
Scripture is clear: faith is necessary to receive the Spirit
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
BTW you have God giving to unbelievers
Galatians 5:22–23 (LEB) — 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self control. Against such things there is no law.
So gifts of the Spirit are post initial faith, without which you cannot receive the Spirit
Similar threads
