jeremiah1five
Well-known member
My beliefs are grounded on the literal Word of God.
There is ONLY ONE begotten Son of God and it is Jesus Christ, the Logos.
Everyone born of God through the Spirit is adopted.
Like red-head step-children.
Ha.
Sons of God or Sons of Israel?
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
There is ONLY ONE begotten Son of God and it is Jesus Christ, the Logos.
Everyone born of God through the Spirit is adopted.
Like red-head step-children.
Ha.
Wrangler
Well-known member
No. They are not. They are grounded in mysticism, dualism and artificial synthesis. I quoted several verses talking about God's many children. You double down in denial.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
God has only ONE Son - Logos.
Everyone else born of His Spirit is adopted.
And He didn't even have to adopt anyone.
Now, show me my "mysticism" and "dualism" and "artificial synthesis."
Show me my "denials."
Or are you a false accuser with no accountability under the Law?
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Again, scripture refers to sons of God who aren't Jesus and who aren't adopted sons.
KJV, ESV and some other translations:
- Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. - Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. - Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. - Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord. - Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
The godly line of Seth.
There's something called the Derees of God. He decreed that an animal of the same species mate with another animal of the same species "after their kind" which CANNOT be violated. So, your interpretation that the sons of God in Genesis 6 are grossly in error.
The word is defined as "bullies" and "tyrants" exactly what you have when children are born between the godly line of Seth and the ungodly families of the earth, people who are lawless, no restriction in behavior, etc. The result of being unequally yoked with unbelievers. They ended up following Nimrod and disobeyed God to 'scatter" and subdue the earth. They stayed in one place. God scattered them anyways.
The Godly Sethian line came to worship. And an adversary also came. There's nothing other-worldly with that. Humans came to present themselves to worship. The angels that sinned were by this time locked up. Most likely between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 BEFORE God created man.
There's evidence of a pre-Adamic race on the planet. I hold to it.
It's your erroneous interpretation of angels entering into HOLY matrimony and having children with human women. That's way out there in fantastical-land. I used to believe it until I studied and saw something more reasonable.
101G
Well-known member
agreed, but is it not the way one is begotten? is the NEW BIRTH begotten or Made? i.e. .... 1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."
and it is not the Spirit that birth us NEW?
101G.
Complete
Well-known member
Subject Heading:- of God or Sons of Israel?
'I write not these things to shame you,
but as my beloved sons I warn you.
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ,
yet have ye not many fathers:
for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you
through the gospel.'
(1Cor. 4:14-15)
Hello @101G,
The believer, by God's grace, becomes a 'son' by adoption, doesn't he? (Ephesians 1:5-6.
In the verse (above) Paul is talking of himself as having figuratively, 'fathered', the Corinthian believers: it is used to express the difference between mere teachers (pedagogues) and parents. Unlike the false teachers working amongst them, Paul had, 'figuratively', given birth to the Corinthian believers, in Christ Jesus, through the preaching of the gospel of God.
* Yes, we are born from above, by the entrance of the word of God into the heart by faith. The seed is sown in good ground and new life begins.
Praise God!
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
101G
Well-known member
Not saying that you're right or wrong but consider this. son of God or the children of God.......A. "sons of God" John 1:12 "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" John 1:13 "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." Romans 8:14 "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." Romans 8:15 "For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father." Romans 8:16 "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:" Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."
well now who is and is not the Children og God?
B. "Children of God". Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called." Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Romans 4:13 "For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith." Romans 4:14 "For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:" Romans 4:15 "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression." Romans 4:16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,"
Hebrews 6:17 "Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:"
how is one adoptive when born again? and why be born again, if one is just going to be adoptive? it makes no sense to be born again just to be adoptive. but see who are "HIERS?" children of God, a d or, and sons of God.
101G.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @101G,
'He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
But as many as received Him, to them gave He power
to become the sons (Gr. pl. of teknon, not 'sons' but 'children') of God,
even to them that believe on His name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man, but of God.'
(Joh 1:11-13)
* The Lord came unto His own People Israel, unto the land of Abraham, and the throne of David, which were His by right of descent (Mat. 1:1). His subsequent ministry was to, 'the lost sheep of the house of Israel' (Mat.15:24).
* To those who received (i.e., accepted) Him, by believing on His name, He gave power (i,e., authority) to become the children of God.
* In John the word 'Son' (Gr. huios) is only used of the Lord Jesus Christ. Whereas Paul uses both names, 'children' and 'sons,' in relation to those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord.
'For as many as are led by the Spirit of God (or the new nature), they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear;
but ye have received the Spirit of adoption (i,e., 'sonship'), whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children (a term of endearment) of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ;
if so be that we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified together.'
(Rom 8:14-17)
* Sons of God are heirs of God.
'Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children:
but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh,
these are not the children of God:
but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.'
(Rom 9:7-8)
* In this case, the children of the promise, i,e., the offspring of Isaac, through Jacob = the 12 tribes.
'For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world,
was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law,
but through the righteousness of faith.
For if they which are of the law be heirs,
faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
Because the law worketh wrath:
for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace;
to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed;
not to that only which is of the law,
but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham;
who is the father of us all,'
(Rom 4:13-16)
* Made heirs by the righteousness of faith, and not by the law.
* This promise extended beyond the natural heirs, to those who are of like faith as faithful Abraham.
'Wherein God, willing more abundantly
to shew unto the heirs of promise
the immutability of His counsel,
confirmed it by an oath: ... '
(Heb 6:17 - see also 18-20)
* Praise God!
* The Adoption has reference to the redemption of the body at the resurrection from the dead. (Romans 8:23)
* See Romans 8:15, 23, Romans 9:4; Galatians 4:5; Ephesians 1:5.
Thank you,
In Christ Jesus
Chris
101G
Well-known member
First in the Name of the Lord Jesus, Thanks for the reply. second,
but do not the term "son", used metaphorically speak of prominent moral characteristics and has nothing to with one's NATURE? let's see it. using the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words. son, [ 1,,G5207, huios ]
primarily signifies the relation of offspring to parent (See John 9:18-John 9:20; Gal 4:30. It is often used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics (See below). It is used in the NT of (a) male offspring, Gal 4:30; (b) legitimate, as opposed to illegitimate offspring, Heb 12:8; (c) descendants, without reference to sex, Rom 9:27; (d) friends attending a wedding, Matt 9:15; (e) those who enjoy certain privileges, Acts 3:25; (f) those who act in a certain way, whether evil, Matt 23:31, or good, Gal 3:7; (g) those who manifest a certain character, whether evil, Acts 13:10; Eph 2:2, or good, Luke 6:35; Acts 4:36; Rom 8:14; (h) the destiny that corresponds with the character, whether evil, Matt 23:15; John 17:12; 2Thess 2:3, or good, Luke 20:36; (i) the dignity of the relationship with God whereinto men are brought by the Holy Spirit when they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, Rom 8:19; Gal 3:26. ...
"The Apostle John does not use huios, 'son,' of the believer, he reserves that title for the Lord; but he does use teknon, 'child,' as in his Gospel, John 1:12; 1John 3:1-2; Rev 21:7 (hunios) is a quotation from 2Sam 7:14.
now NOTE THAT LAST DEFINITION. but he does use teknon, 'child,' as in his Gospel. question? "is a child different from a servant?" let's see.
Galatians 4:1 "Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;" (READ THAT AGAIN). Galatians 4:2 "But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father." Galatians 4:3 "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:" Galatians 4:4 "But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law," Galatians 4:5 "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." Galatians 4:6 "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Galatians 4:7 "Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ."
NOW, let 101G set a misguided teaching of ... "SOME" ....... NOT ALL ....... Jews. Galatians 4:5 "To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons." some .... not all say, see this is referring to Israel ONLY, for only Israel had the "LAW". Hogwash, scripture, Romans 2:7 "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:" Romans 2:8 "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath," Romans 2:9 "Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;" Romans 2:10 "But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:" (WHY GOD IS APPLYING THE SAME GLORY, OR THE SAME PUNISHMENT TO BOTH JEW AND GENTILES. BUT AS SID BY SOME JEWS, WE ONLY HAVE THE LAT, WELL LETS SEE IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT). Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God." (Uh O). Romans 2:12 "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;" Romans 2:13 "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (LISTEN TO THESE NEXT FEW VERSES JEWS). Romans 2:14 "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:" (WHAT!, LET'S READ THAT AGAIN). WHY? Romans 2:15 "Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)" (WHAT!). Romans 2:16 "In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." so both Jews and Gentiles have the same LAW, only one is written on STOME, and the Other written on the HEART...... (smile). Oh my God.... this is Just too easy.
"Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all" ..... until he or she GROWS UP. 1 Corinthians 13:10 "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away." 1 Corinthians 13:11 "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."
now of a NOTE: a DEAD son cannot inherit .... NOTHING. this is why we must all be BORN AGAIN. Adam, Adam, in the day you eat of the fruit I told you not to eat... you will DIE. Sin KILLS. and as said, A DEAD "SON", inherit ... NOTHING from his Father. only a LIVE SON can inherit. so being a son is not the point. the point is...... are you a LIVING son, or a DEAD son.
ERROR, the Children of the Promise is of FATH, through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whom name was changed to ISRAEL which is the HOUSE OF MANY NATIONS.
there are no ... "NATURAL HEIRS ... according to the Flesh" let's see it, Romans 8:5 "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." Romans 8:6 "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." Romans 8:8 "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." (well that just killed fleshly Israel). Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
the children of the flesh are not God's children. keep that always in MIND
101G.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @101G,
Thank you for your speedy response. I have my copy of 'Vine's Expository Dictionary' open in front of me, at the section you have quoted. I thank you for drawing my attention to this book, which I must admit I rarely refer to. Reading it now, I realise the value of it.
The difference between believers as 'children of God' and as 'sons of God' is brought out in Romans 8:14-21. In Vine' Expository Dictionary, it says,(quote):-
'The Spirit bears witness with their spirit that they are 'children of God,' and, as such, they are His heirs and joint-heirs with Christ. This stresses the fact of their spiritual birth (vv. 16-17), On the other hand, 'as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God,' i.e., 'these and no other.' Their conduct gives evidence of the dignity of their relationship and their likeness to His character.'
My! That gives pause for thought, doesn't it?
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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101G
Well-known member
Hello @101G,
Thank you for your speedy response. I have my copy of 'Vine's Expository Dictionary' open in front of me, at the section you have quoted. I thank you for drawing my attention to this book, which I must admit I rarely refer to. Reading it now, I realise the value of it.
The difference between believers as 'children of God' and as 'sons of God' is brought out in Romans 8:14-21. In Vine' Expository Dictionary, it says,(quote):-
'The Spirit bears witness with their spirit that they are 'children of God,' and, as such, they are His heirs and joint-heirs with Christ. This stresses the fact of their spiritual birth (vv. 16-17), On the other hand, 'as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God,' i.e., 'these and no other.' Their conduct gives evidence of the dignity of their relationship and their likeness to His character.'
My! That gives pause for thought, doesn't it?
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Complete, I thank God for you. at least you took time and checked it out. and a good spot. by bring that out you gave me something else to Look at. these are the kind of discussion 101G Love. Iron sharpen Iron.be blessed in the Lord.
101G.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
It's bene ha elohim. And it's the same word translated God in "In the beginning God created".
Assuming it means the Godly line of Seth is stupid, IMO. The text doesn't support that idea at all.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
IN the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Gen. 1:1.
God here is "Elohim" and as you may know it is plural.
Bene ha Elohim translated is "sons of God" and they do not refer to angels. God has no sons that are angels only ONE begotten Son, the Logos who became a man. Nowhere in Scripture are angels referred to as a son or sons of God. I'd attribute that to interpretation error.
Until the Abrahamic Covenant there was no "human race" or "Gentiles" but only "Adam" or Adamites.
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Gen. 5:2.
Beginning with Genesis 3:21 God is already initiating a redemption program which will travel forward through a particular family line, eventually becoming full-blown covenant with Abram the Hebrew and his seed.
36 Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37 Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God. Lk 3:36–38.
This is a family line ordained and called out by God and as you may know God calls His people to "be ye separate" from the others, which might explain the name "Eber" which means "cross[ing] over" (the Jordan River) to be ye separate from the disobedient mass of Adamites that just won't scatter as commanded but prefer their Lego building blocks instead (Ch. 11.)
God has His people, and they were separate/distinct from the rest although they lived among the greater community, that is, until
Eber's father took his family and "crossed over" the Jordan to be physically separate from the rest of the rebellious clans. To commemorate this event, he may have named his son Eber. The name "Eber" in the Bible is associated with the progenitor of the Hebrew people. This linguistic connection is related to the fact that Eber is the ancestor of the Hebrews, and the term "Hebrew" is linked to his name.
What I am getting at is that the term "sons of God" can only biblically and textually be applied to the Sethian family line and not to angels. These "sons of God" mingled with the daughters of men (not God) and had offspring which are identified by the word "nephal/nephalim" which means, [Strong's] "tyrants" and "bullies." In other words, they were unequally yoked with a people that cared nothing for God or His way of life and the children grew up (probably with their mothers) without Law or restriction, and as it says, every thought of their heart was evil continually."
In order to say these "sons of God " were angels one has to ignore this from Peter which states the angels that sinned are locked up, and I personally put this occurrence between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, before God created man.
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Pete 2:4.
But let's say you want to put their being cast down to hell was because they cohabited with women, the whole position really has no ontological basis.
Consider:
1. One-third of the angels sinned.
2. What is one-third when Scriptures numbers all the rest of the angels as "myriads" of "myriads" and "thousands of thousands" Rev. 5:11.) The use of phrases like "myriads of myriads" and "thousands of thousands" conveys the idea of an immense multitude. How many women were alive at this time let alone those that participated.
3. Angels have no genitals as they are all male and have no need for them.
4. Angels are spirit beings and women are physical.
5. God ordained His species creation mate with their own species "after their kind." You do understand "ordained" right? This means it cannot be changed. This teaching should end right here on this fact.
6. Being that angels and man are of two completely different order of creation it is impossible for the two to have offspring. Impossible.
7. These lustful sinning angels, IF they are the "sons of God" in Genesis 6, are said to
participate in HOLY MATRIMONY (marriage) and these sinning angels would not do that.
The angels that sinned are locked up BEFORE God created man. Just as man was created AFTER the locking up of the angels that sinned. There is more reasonable evidence to conclude these "sons of God" are the family line of Seth and for the reasons above angels marrying and mating with women is totally leaning on ones flawed understanding in the vanity of their mind. But hey, that's Gentile propaganda for you. Let's get back to the bible and keep God dealing with man God dealing with man. Not even Jews believe angels and women have offspring.
101G
Well-known member
Job and his friends were sons of God and they are not angels. Job 1:1 "There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:2 "And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters." Job 1:3 "His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east."
here "MEN" is
H1121 בֵּן ben (bane) n-m.
בָּנִים baniym (ba-neem') [plural]
בְּנִי bniy (ben-ee') [possessive singular]
בָּנַי banay (baw-nah'ee) [possessive plural]
(used widely) a son (as a builder of the family name).
{in the widest sense of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, quality or condition, etc., (like H1 H251, etc.).}
[from H1129]
and please note, Job was a MAN as Highlighted in blue above. yes, Job was a human man but a son of God.
101G.
Complete
Well-known member
Noah Perfect. (Gen. 6:9). - Appendix to the Companion Bible
levendwater.org
Hello again,
The first link above leads to an appendix of The Companion Bible, in which Dr Bullinger gives interesting references to the times where Satan's opposition to the purpose of God is clearly outlined, beginning with Genesis 6:2,4 and the angels, who are spirits, by creation of God, leaving their divinely allotted purpose, and taking the daughters of Adam as their wives, producing offspring, which led to the judgment of the flood falling upon mankind (the 2nd and 3rd are complimentary). This was Satan's first attempt to prevent the coming of the seed of the woman foretold in Genesis 3:15, and thereby averting his own doom.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
101G
Well-known member
GINOLJC to all,
one question, "how are angels sons of God?". please post your scriptures to that effect.
101G.
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @101G,
Please tell me what GINOLIC means, and let me out of my misery!?
- The angels (ie., spirits) are called sons of God, for they are created by God. (Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7. Ps. 29:1; 89:6. Dan. 3:25. Ps. 104:4. Heb. 1:7, 14 )
- Adam is called a son of God, for he was created by God (Luke 3:38).
- Those "in Christ" having "the new nature" which is by the direct creation of God (2Cor. 5:17. Eph. 2:10) can be, and are called "sons of God"
(John 1:13. Rom. 8:14, 15. 1John 3:1).
- The nation of Israel is called God's 'son' (Exodus 4:22), because they were created by Him, through the miraculous birth of Isaac, born when Abraham was an old, old man, and his wife Sarah was way beyond child bearing age.
* The Lord Jesus Christ is God's only Begotten Son. - Begotten not made.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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