Refuting Losing Salvation!

Angelo said:
In His encounter with the woman at the well, He makes an interesting statement using the present tense. In His effort to show the woman the superiority of living water over the water found in Jacob’s well, He says,

Everyone who drinks of this water shall thirst again.
John 4:13

The term drinks is present tense, which confronts us with a curious situation. If the present tense always communicates continuous, uninterrupted action, Jesus is saying that those who are continuously drinking from Jacob’s well will thirst again!

That doesn’t make any sense. First of all, no one who is continually drinking gets thirsty. Second, it would be physically impossible for someone to drink continuously from Jacob’s well—or any well for that matter.

But Jesus’ meaning is clear. He is referring to the normal practice of drinking until one’s thirst is quenched, then after a period of time returning to drink again. His point is that the water from Jacob’s well would quench one’s thirst temporarily.

Jesus tells the Samaritan woman that the "water" He gives will be a "spring of water welling up to eternal life" and that the person who drinks it will never thirst again.

As you can see, it would be absurd, even contradictory, to understand the present tense to mean continuous, uninterrupted action. That is simply not a normal rendering of the verb tense. Certainly it can mean that, but in most cases it does not.

Therefore, to interpret John’s use of the present tense to mean continuous, uninterrupted believing is to make more out of the present tense than he intended. That would be like sitting all day praying Hindu Mantras.

When a man or woman believes, they are given eternal life right then and there. It is a gift. At that moment in time the transaction is completed. As mentioned in your post #20, if one must continue to work in order to retain possession of the gift, it is not a gift.
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Nice Post, great analogy. Think about this one...

If my faith maintains my salvation, I must ask myself, “What must I do to maintain my faith?” For to neglect the cultivation of my faith is to run the risk of weakening or losing my faith and thus my salvation. I have discovered that my faith is maintained and strengthened by activities such as the following: Prayer, Bible Study, Christian Fellowship, Church Attendance, and Evangelism. If these and similar activities are necessary to maintain my faith—and the maintenance of my faith is necessary for salvation—how can I avoid the conclusion that I am saved by my good works?
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All that is good but it not what saves me or keeps me saved. Once saved always saved!
 
Jim said:
Let me put it another way. Those five actions are, without question, are the features of one who has been saved.
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Yes, we want God's will to be done, in Heaven and here on earth.

That is what John 3:16 tells us, that God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, Jesus, so that anyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. It emphasizes God's love and the promise of salvation through faith in Jesus.

If you believe in Jesus your will not perish but have eternal life. You can't undo that. Eternal life is eternal.
 
There is real security for every believer in Christ. It is not in some fanciful misreading of the doctrine of grace, but in a vital, living relationship with God. The born again “child of God” no more fears being lost than he fears that he may deliberately commit suicide. He knows that he can, but he does not fear that he will.

THE ONLY POSSIBLE BASIS FOR A LACK OF CHRISTIAN ASSURANCE IS CONDEMNATION FOR SIN! And for such condemnation, God has provided an instant and complete remedy:

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world” John 2:1-2

Remain in Jesus and you will never fall.

12 Therefore let anyone who thinks he stands [who feels sure that he has a steadfast mind and is standing firm], take heed lest he fall [into sin].
13 For no temptation (no trial regarded as enticing to sin), [no matter how it comes or where it leads] has overtaken you and laid hold on you that is not common to man [that is, no temptation or trial has come to you that is beyond human resistance and that is not adjusted and adapted and belonging to human experience, and such as man can bear]. But God is faithful [to His Word and to His compassionate nature], and He [can be trusted] not to let you be tempted and tried and assayed beyond your ability and strength of resistance and power to endure, but with the temptation He will [always] also provide the way out (the means of escape to a landing place), that you may be capable and strong and powerful to bear up under it patiently.
14 Therefore, my dearly beloved, shun (keep clear away from, avoid by flight if need be) any sort of idolatry (of loving or venerating anything more than God).
15 I am speaking as to intelligent (sensible) men. Think over and make up your minds [for yourselves] about what I say. [I appeal to your reason and your discernment in these matters.]
1 Corinthians 10:12–15
 
Jay said:
Yes, we want God's will to be done, in Heaven and here on earth.

That is what John 3:16 tells us, that God loved the world so much that He gave His only Son, Jesus, so that anyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life. It emphasizes God's love and the promise of salvation through faith in Jesus.

If you believe in Jesus your will not perish but have eternal life. You can't undo that. Eternal life is eternal.
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Of course, if you believe. But if, for whatever reason, you cease to believe, you no longer have eternal life. It is just that plain and straight forward. We are saved by grace through faith and we stay saved by grace through faith.
 
Jim said:
Of course, if you believe. But if, for whatever reason, you cease to believe, you no longer have eternal life. It is just that plain and straight forward. We are saved by grace through faith and we stay saved by grace through faith.
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Then it wasn't eternal was it? We are saved by grace through faith, end of story.

When the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, they did not tell him to begin believing and maintain a believing attitude. They said,

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
—Acts 16:31

Believe is in the aorist tense. The focus here is the act of believing, not the maintenance of our faith or even our intention to maintain his faith. If one must keep believing to stay saved, why didn’t Paul and Silas explain this fact to the jailer? Better yet, why didn’t they just use the present tense to communicate the need for constant belief?
 
Bobby Walker said:
Then it wasn't eternal was it? We are saved by grace through faith, end of story.

When the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, they did not tell him to begin believing and maintain a believing attitude. They said,

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
—Acts 16:31

Believe is in the aorist tense. The focus here is the act of believing, not the maintenance of our faith or even our intention to maintain his faith. If one must keep believing to stay saved, why didn’t Paul and Silas explain this fact to the jailer? Better yet, why didn’t they just use the present tense to communicate the need for constant belief?
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I'm a believer in the eternal sense.
 
Bobby Walker said:
Then it wasn't eternal was it? We are saved by grace through faith, end of story.
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Nothing is eternal in this life and in this world. The actual receipt of eternal life begins with the second coming of Christ and the resurrection to eternal life if and only if you have kept the faith to the end.
Bobby Walker said:
When the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, they did not tell him to begin believing and maintain a believing attitude. They said,
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A believing attitude?? What in the world is a believing attitude?
 
Bobby Walker said:
We are saved by grace through faith, end of story.

When the Philippian jailer asked Paul and Silas what he must do to be saved, they did not tell him to begin believing and maintain a believing attitude. They said,

Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
—Acts 16:31
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Precious friend, here's the rest of the story of "the end" of "Grace Through faith", eh?:

God's Eternal OPERATION On All new-born babes In Christ!

Amen.
 
Grace ambassador said:
Precious friend, here's the rest of the story of "the end" of "Grace Through faith", eh?:

God's Eternal OPERATION On All new-born babes In Christ!
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And just where do you read about God's eternal operation on all new-born babes in Christ?

Explain to us what you think the following means:

Rom 11:19 Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
Rom 11:21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.

Who is the "you" that Paul is speaking to in that passage?
 
Jim said:
Rev_3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

That certainly indicates that a name can be blotted out of the book of life. When might that happen?

Again you are essentially stating that once having believed, then you cannot disbelieve. That is not true.
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Hi Brother and thanks for the reply! How can one believe and change their mind not to believe? That would mean he really didn't believe; and why would He blot out a believer's name from the "Lamb's Book of life" (Rev 21:27?). It's a confirmation that one's name remains in the Book until He comes.

The most difficult hurdle is how does God take back eternal life; and why would He need to take it back when He already knows the person doesn't believe when he said he believed. Don't forget He is omniscient, and will not give anyone eternal life without truly believing. There's just people professing falsely!
 
dwight92070 said:
Even though God knew before creation who would be lost and who would be saved, He NEVER deprived them of their free will to choose His salvation or to reject it. It just so happens that He knows ahead of time, what our choice will be.

1 Peter 1:1-2
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Yes, and that's what I keep saying! Why would God need to take back eternal salvation since He already knew he didn't believe, when he said he believed. He just doesn't give it to whom He knows doesn't really believe!
 
NetChaplain said:
Hi Brother and thanks for the reply! How can one believe and change their mind not to believe? That would mean he really didn't believe; and why would He blot out a believer's name from the "Lamb's Book of life" (Rev 21:27?). It's a confirmation that one's name remains in the Book until He comes.

The most difficult hurdle is how does God take back eternal life; and why would He need to take it back when He already knows the person doesn't believe when he said he believed. Don't forget He is omniscient, and will not give anyone eternal life without truly believing. There's just people professing falsely!
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I have changed what I believe about a lot of things. Everyone has. If they have not, they are not learning.
 
Jim said:
Nothing is eternal in this life and in this world.
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Lets just remove eternal from the bible :ROFLMAO:

Just for clarification:
Those who once become true Christians cannot totally fall away and be lost—that while they may fall into sin temporarily, they will eventually return and be saved.

Eternal life is something you inherit and a reality that begins the moment you believe in Jesus Christ. Eternal life has less to do with the duration of time than it does the quality of life you are living. The day I received Jesus Christ into my life by faith, my life shifted to a higher plane and my eternal life began.

Jesus said in John 17:3, “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” Therefore, eternal life is knowing the true God and His Son, not the life you move into the day you die. Knowing God is a new kind and quality of life.
 
In a real sense, eternal life began the moment we believed in Christ: “God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son” 1 John 5:11

Thus, eternal life is something we presently have. However, when Jesus returns, establishing His righteous kingdom and resurrecting believers in their glorious bodies, He will bestow upon us that for which we’ve been eagerly hoping: eternal life.

This is “the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago.” Titus 1:2

Having been justified already when we believed, we now look forward to eternal life with unwavering hope. Though we’ll fully experience eternal life “in the age to come” Luke 18:30

We also live “abundantly” now through the Spirit’s power John 10:10
 

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