No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[TomL]

Those are vessels of mercy See Eph2:4

You ignored the part when they were vessels of wrath

Ephesians 2:3 (NASB 95) — 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

Seems vessels of wrath can become vessels of mercy

 

[synergy]

Why would you say that there are women that are elect.

Because I believe that women are believers also and as such they are elect. Your male chauvanism is glaringly obvious to everyone.

The word anthropos for man means human being male or female in the scripture

Yes, it means all humanity. That proves that God desires that all humanity be saved. Who else is there, aliens?

 

[Doug Brents]

I could do it again but I'm not you should have been paying attention the first time.

You are a complete waste of my time. You have not posted a single verse that says that faith is the result of salvation. You have posted several that you claim state that, but all of them have been misinterpreted by you. As I said, there is not a single verse in all of Scripture that states or even hints at faith being the result of salvation. When you can post even a single verse that states that, we can talk again.

 

[Rory Wilson]

Yes unbelievers who were dead in trespasses and sins He makes a lie Ephesians 2:5. When he made them alive they were children of disobedience or unbelief Ephesians 2:2

He makes who a lie?

 

[Darby]

Because of His sacrifice on the Cross, those who have trusted Christ by faith have been quickened by God and made alive in Him, despite being spiritually dead in our sins. It is by grace we are saved, not because of our merit but because of His mercy and love so that by His propitiatory death and Resurrection we too might be made alive together with Him.

By faith, we were made spiritually alive and born afresh into a new creation in Christ. And it is by virtue of His sacrificial death and glorious Resurrection that we too have been imputed with His resurrected life and clothed in the righteousness of Christ forever: "It is by grace we are saved not of works, lest anyone should boast."

 

[atpollard]

How do you deal with Gods assessment of proof/ evidence of His existence which He declares is self evident in the second half of Roman’s chapter 1. Just because the atheist makes claims does not mean they are true but are in fact deceived. A lie is a lie no matter how one tries to sugar coat it and make it sound “ reasonable “ .

Not a conversation for a public venue.
I WILL NOT present effective atheists arguments (but that does not mean that I cannot).

I will not publicly bring shame to the cause of Christ by playing "devil's advocate" in this matter and potentially harming someone weaker in the faith. Go and throw down your gauntlet on an ATHEIST Forum and someone will pick it up.

I will say this: Claiming "God said so" never convinced any atheist of anything.
At a minimum, they will ask "Which god?" and "How do you know 'god' said that?" (then they will likely deflect to their favorite verse and question about god killing babies or the world being 6000 years old).

 

[civic]

Not a conversation for a public venue.
I WILL NOT present effective atheists arguments (but that does not mean that I cannot).

I will not publicly bring shame to the cause of Christ by playing "devil's advocate" in this matter and potentially harming someone weaker in the faith. Go and throw down your gauntlet on an ATHEIST Forum and someone will pick it up.

I will say this: Claiming "God said so" never convinced any atheist of anything.
At a minimum, they will ask "Which god?" and "How do you know 'god' said that?" (then they will likely deflect to their favorite verse and question about god killing babies or the world being 6000 years old).

No problem and I respect your position.

You are aware of several famous atheists in our generation that have been converted and written books. They sought out to disprove Jesus and in that process found the evidence that countered their bias.

Here is a list of a few of them

• C.S. Lewis: A devoted atheist for many years before converting in 1931, Lewis went on to write a vast body of Christian apologetic works. His conversion is a central theme in his autobiography, Surprised by Joy.
• Lee Strobel: A former investigative journalist for The Chicago Tribune, Strobel became a Christian after investigating the historical evidence for Jesus. He documented his journey in the book The Case for Christ, which has been made into a film and helped many others find faith.
• G.E.M. Anscombe: An influential analytic philosopher, Anscombe converted to Catholicism in the 1940s after years of atheism. She was a prominent Catholic thinker who engaged in rigorous intellectual work while remaining devoted to her faith.
• Whittaker Chambers: A former Communist, Chambers later became a conservative writer and converted to Christianity. He is known for his book Witness, which details his life and political journey.
• Josh Timonen: A former close associate of prominent atheist Richard Dawkins, Timonen shocked the secular world by announcing his conversion to Christianity in recent years. His conversion was prompted by his study of Scripture and Lee Strobel's book, The Case for Christ.
• Tom Holland: A British historian who rejected religion in his youth, Holland later discussed his re-evaluation of Christianity in an article titled "Why I Was Wrong About Christianity".
• Mortimer Adler: A well-known philosopher and educator, Adler was a lifelong skeptic before converting to Christianity in his eighties, stating that "the existence of God was the only logical explanation"

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored this

Before they were quickened they were unbelievers, children of disobedience and Wrath the word disobedience also means unbelief so they were children of unbelief

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored the part when they were vessels of wrath

Wrong it never said vessels of Wrath, but by nature children of Wrath, that's descriptive of their nature

 

[brightfame52]

Because I believe that women are believers also and as such they are elect. Your male chauvanism is glaringly obvious to everyone.

You don't make sense, just about everybody knows when the scripture says all men in a Salvation context that it includes women.

 

[brightfame52]

You are a complete waste of my time

Likewise my friend

 

[brightfame52]

He makes who a lie?

That should be he makes alive

 

[Gatekeeper]

The invitation is for all people

"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28). This invitation is for everyone, emphasizing His gentleness and that His guidance is easy to follow, providing eternal life.

Calvinism denies man any real choice concerning anything he thinks or does. Spurgeon referred to “a class of strong-minded hard-headed men who magnify sovereignty at the expense of human responsibility.”

The Calvinist mistakenly believes that if man could make a genuine choice, even in his rebellion against God, it would be a denial that God is sovereign. Thus God must be the cause of all sin, beginning with Adam and Eve.

Man is free to respond to God. But Calvinists would have us believe in the doctrine of Total Depravity and the lie it teaches, that he can respond only negatively and in opposition to God. Of course, that is not freedom at all.

 

[Cyrus]

John 12:32 says absolutely nothing about anything being offered that's a man-made doctrine

Man you really can't see the all men in that verse?

Salvation is offered to all. John 12:32 says: And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes I have and it doesn't exist to you.

Quote it again…I’ve looked back at your posts for the last several days and have seen no scripture quoted that says salvation precedes faith in God’s promises. (And I don’t think anything that was quoted was directed at anything I said to you.)

Doug

 

[civic]

Quote it again…I’ve looked back at your posts for the last several days and have seen no scripture quoted that says salvation precedes faith in God’s promises. (And I don’t think anything that was quoted was directed at anything I said to you.)

Doug

there are no scriptures which is why the calvinist never quotes any scriptures when asked.

all they do is talk about being dead, needing to be made alive, TD, original sin etc........

they have nothing but a circular argument to support them.

 

[TedT]

@TedT: What has been "proven" to you completely contradicts Scripture. Only Satan and his minions spout such falsehoods.

What has been proven acceptable to me contradicts your interpretation of the scripture. I thought, "My way is the only truth and all other interpretations are satanic!!" went out with the Jesuits and their pope two centuries ago, sigh.

 

[TomL]

Wrong it never said vessels of Wrath, but by nature children of Wrath, that's descriptive of their nature

LOL that is the same thing

 

[Doug Brents]

What has been proven acceptable to me contradicts your interpretation of the scripture.

What you have stated in many places in this forum contradict Scripture, not my interpretation of It.

I thought, "My way is the only truth and all other interpretations are satanic!!" went out with the Jesuits and their pope two centuries ago, sigh.

That is not in any way how I think or believe. It is Scripture that is the only truth, and all interpretations that contradict It are Satanic.

 

[TomL]

Before they were quickened they were unbelievers, children of disobedience and Wrath the word disobedience also means unbelief so they were children of unbelief

Scripture teaches those who do not believe will not see life

Can you rebut this?

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

If you actually believed those verses show God will make alive unbelievers, you would have presented an argument that actually addresses them, but you can't and do not really care to even attempt such an effort.

The only way is for unbelievers to become believers so they might gain life for no one in unbelief can be given life