No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[TomL]

The scripture plainly teaches that none [by nature] will come to God in Christ Jn 5:40 cp Rom 3:11

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Um you have taken a reference regarding reprobate Jews and attempted to apply the statement against all men.

John 5:36–40 (LEB) — 36 “But I have a testimony greater than John’s, for the works which the Father has given to me that I should complete them—the very works which I am doing—these testify about me, that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me, that one has testified about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his form. 38 And you do not have his word residing in yourselves, because the one whom that one sent, in this one you do not believe. 39 You search the scriptures because you think that you have eternal life in them, and it is these that testify about me. 40 And you are not willing to come to me so that you may have life.

but yet

John 1:12–13 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God.

1 Corinthians 1:21 (LEB) — 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did not know God, God was pleased through the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The reality is God is seeking them, and they are able to respond to it.

Scripture teaches that the unwillingness to come to God in Christ is founded in mans inability to do the same Jn 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Yet another failure to consider context

John 6:44 concerns those that were already God's

Such being God's would become Christ's

John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.

and kept the word of God

They would hear and listen to God

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

The verse is simply not addressing the giving of unbelievers to Christ- The taking of unbelievers and making them believers.

 

[civic]

Nope, drawing is by the word of God

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

And Christ draws all.

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

yep

 

[TomL]

The all in Jn 12 32 are the same all in Jn 6:37

Um these are the same as seen here

John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.

John 17:9 (LEB) — 9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,

John 6:37 (LEB) — 37 Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never throw out,

 

[TomL]

Yes it does. You been deceived with the word all and dont understand its various scriptural uses. His death [or being lifted up] is specifically for His Sheep and He draws all of them to Himself.

Um his death is for all

1 Timothy 2:5–6 (LEB) — 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (LEB) — 14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all; as a result all died. 15 And he died for all, in order that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for the one who died for them and was raised.

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

 

[TomL]

In John 12 32 the all drawn are actually converted into believers and followers. You deny that.

I hold some drawn will become believers.

 

[brightfame52]

You can be drawn to Jesus by the gospel, but it's up to the induvial to accept Him as Lord and Savior. It's a choice.

“Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me.” John 14:1

Jesus said they shall be drawn unto Him, they become persuaded and follow. Now anyone who doesnt become a believer in Him, wasn't drawn by Him. Simple as that.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Um you have taken a reference regarding reprobate Jews and attempted to apply the statement against all men.

Race doesnt matter, we all by nature sinners and enmity against God

 

[brightfame52]

Um these are the same as seen here

John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.

John 17:9 (LEB) — 9 I am asking on behalf of them. I am not asking on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those whom you have given me, because they are yours,

John 6:37 (LEB) — 37 Everyone whom the Father gives to me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never throw out,

The all in Jn 12 32 are the same all in Jn 6:37 also the all in Jn 12:32 come unto Christ and hear His voice and follow Him, so if you dont become a believer, you not part of that all

 

[TomL]

Jesus said they shall be drawn unto Him, they become persuaded and follow. Now anyone who doesnt become a believer in Him, wasn't drawn by Him. Simple as that.

Sorry but

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (LEB) — 3 From afar Yahweh appeared to me, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love. Therefore I have drawn you with loyal love. 4 I will again build you, and you will be built, O virgin Israel. You will again adorn yourself with your tambourines, and you will go forth in the dancing in a ring of the merrymakers.

Hosea 11:4 (LEB) — 4 I drew them with human ties, with the bands of love. I was to them like one who lifted up a yoke on their jaws, though I bent down to them and let them eat.

(CLV) `And You draw over them many years, and testify against them by Your Spirit, by the hand of Your prophets, and they have not given ear, and You do give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,

ECB) and for many years you draw them and witness against them by your Spirit in the hand of your prophets; and they hearkened not: so you gave them into the hand of the people of the lands.

(ERRB) Yet many years didst thou forbear draw them, and testifiedst witnessedst against them by thy spirit Spirit in the hand of thy prophets: yet would they not give ear they hearkened not : therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands.

 

[TomL]

The all in Jn 12 32 are the same all in Jn 6:37 also the all in Jn 12:32 come unto Christ and hear His voice and follow Him, so if you dont become a believer, you not part of that all

You are still stuck on the pre-cross.

John 12:32 refers to an after the cross reality.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry but

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (LEB) — 3 From afar Yahweh appeared to me, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love. Therefore I have drawn you with loyal love. 4 I will again build you, and you will be built, O virgin Israel. You will again adorn yourself with your tambourines, and you will go forth in the dancing in a ring of the merrymakers.

Hosea 11:4 (LEB) — 4 I drew them with human ties, with the bands of love. I was to them like one who lifted up a yoke on their jaws, though I bent down to them and let them eat.

(CLV) `And You draw over them many years, and testify against them by Your Spirit, by the hand of Your prophets, and they have not given ear, and You do give them into the hand of peoples of the lands,

ECB) and for many years you draw them and witness against them by your Spirit in the hand of your prophets; and they hearkened not: so you gave them into the hand of the people of the lands.

(ERRB) Yet many years didst thou forbear draw them, and testifiedst witnessedst against them by thy spirit Spirit in the hand of thy prophets: yet would they not give ear they hearkened not : therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands.

Aint no sorry, Jesus made a declarative statement, they shall be drawn unto Him and believe. Thats what unto me means

 

[brightfame52]

You are still stuck on the pre-cross.

John 12:32 refers to an after the cross reality.

Im going by what Jesus says that would be an effect of His Cross, He will convert all He draws to Himself. So if a person isn't never converted to Him, He wasnt lifted up for them, nor drew them, they were goats

 

[Aeliana]

Jesus said they shall be drawn unto Him, they become persuaded and follow. Now anyone who doesnt become a believer in Him, wasn't drawn by Him. Simple as that.

Being "drawn to Jesus by the gospel" means that the message of the gospel—God's loving plan to save humanity through his Son, Jesus Christ—is the divine initiative that attracts people to faith in Christ and salvation. But they must choose to become a believer or not.

God has made it exceedingly simple to become a Christian. All you have to do is receive Jesus as your Savior, fully accepting His death as the sufficient sacrifice for your sins, fully trusting Him alone as your Savior.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

It is a core verse in Christian theology, highlighting God's immense love, the gift of his Son, Jesus, and the offer of salvation and eternal life to those who choose to believe in Him.

 

[brightfame52]

Being "drawn to Jesus by the gospel" means that the message of the gospel—God's loving plan to save humanity through his Son, Jesus Christ—is the divine initiative that attracts people to faith in Christ and salvation. But they must choose to become a believer or not.

God has made it exceedingly simple to become a Christian. All you have to do is receive Jesus as your Savior, fully accepting His death as the sufficient sacrifice for your sins, fully trusting Him alone as your Savior.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

It is a core verse in Christian theology, highlighting God's immense love, the gift of his Son, Jesus, and the offer of salvation and eternal life to those who choose to believe in Him.

The Gospel is an external call by man, the drawing in Jn 12:32 is inward power, impel and it results in Faith in Christ, they were persuaded, won over.

 

[TomL]

Im going by what Jesus says that would be an effect of His Cross, He will convert all He draws to Himself. So if a person isn't never converted to Him, He wasnt lifted up for them, nor drew them, they were goats

Jesus does not say he will convert all in John 12:32.

 

[Hosanna]

The Gospel is an external call by man, the drawing in Jn 12:32 is inward power, impel and it results in Faith in Christ, they were persuaded, won over.

The commentaries on John 12:32-33 emphasize the dual meaning of the "lifting up" of Jesus.

It signifies both His physical crucifixion and His spiritual exaltation at the right hand of the Father. The "lifting up" of Jesus is a powerful declaration of His redemptive purpose, drawing all people to Himself.

This act of selfless love fulfills the prophecy in Isaiah 53:5, which speaks of the suffering servant who will be pierced for our transgressions. The verse also highlights the inclusivity of Jesus' sacrifice, extending to all humanity, regardless of their background or social status.

The context of this verse is set during the final days of Jesus' earthly ministry, as He prepares for His crucifixion in Jerusalem. The religious leaders were plotting to put Him to death, and Jesus knew that the time for His sacrificial death was approaching. As He speaks these words, He expresses the profound purpose and significance of His impending suffering and death.

 

[TomL]

Aint no sorry, Jesus made a declarative statement, they shall be drawn unto Him and believe. Thats what unto me means

The verse reads

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

It does not state all people will believe.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus does not say he will convert all in John 12:32.

Yes He does, that's the result of drawing unto Him. Whats His promise here Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

That word unto here is the same word unto [pros] in Jn 12:32 and it denotes a coming to its destination. Those He draws come unto Him, that's what He said.

You and others make the drawing come short of reaching unto Him, but stop short and then they have to make a choice to believe and follow Him, thats error

The word is used here Rev 12:5

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Likewise Jesus draws them unto Himself.

 

[brightfame52]

The verse reads

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

It does not state all people will believe.

He is guaranteeing the all whom He was lifted up for, and who He draws shall come unto Him and believe. Its the fruit of His death.

Its similar to earlier this statement Jn 12:23-24

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

 

[TomL]

He is guaranteeing the all whom He was lifted up for, and who He draws shall come unto Him and believe. Its the fruit of His death.

Its similar to earlier this statement Jn 12:23-24

23 And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Um, it does not state all will come.

Yahweh drew, and not all came.

Jeremiah 31:3–4 (LEB) — 3 From afar Yahweh appeared to me, saying, “I have loved you with an everlasting love. Therefore I have drawn you with loyal love. 4 I will again build you, and you will be built, O virgin Israel. You will again adorn yourself with your tambourines, and you will go forth in the dancing in a ring of the merrymakers.

Hosea 11:1–4 (LEB) — 1 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. 2 When I called them, they went from my face. They sacrificed to the Baals, and they sacrificed to idols. 3 And I myself taught Ephraim to walk; I took them in my arms, but they did not know that I healed them. 4 I drew them with human ties, with the bands of love. I was to them like one who lifted up a yoke on their jaws, though I bent down to them and let them eat.