Mode of Baptism

TomL

Well-known member
Some do what they call immersion, some sprinkle , some pour.

What does the bible state?

Are immersion, sprinkling, pouring all acceptable modes of water baptism.

Does baptizo only mean immerse?

Does the word immerse really mean to submerge and then emerge?

Why do translations not translate the word but transliterate it?
 
Why would a translator get to a word and decide not to translate it and instead just spell it in English? There can be many reasons for this. In some instances the word had already come into the receptor language (in this case English) so that even though the Greek was retained through transliteration, people already knew what the word meant (satan, for instance). In the case of baptism the best explanation I can find is that translating it “to immerse” had political and religious ramifications in the days of the early English translations. They avoided raising those issues by retaining the Greek baptizo. In other words, when the religious practice of the day is pouring and sprinkling it has less ramifications to transliterate the word into “baptism” than it does to actually translate it “immerse.” If they had put immerse in every instance of baptizo (verb) or baptismos (noun) in the New Testament they ran the risk of people questioning their current religious practice and they feared what might result. That, at least, is the take that many people have on why baptism was not translated. I am trying to find a legitimate reference who says that is the case but cannot come up with it. I have looked at Ferguson’s new book on baptism but he doesn’t cover transliteration as he is more interested in the practice itself rather than what English translators did with it 1500 years later.
Translation & Meaning:
Baptizo primarily means to immerse. It can also be translated: to dip, wash, or plunge (BDAG, 164). In all instances the result is full immersion. In Everett Ferguson’s recent tome on baptism, Baptism in the early church, he spends over 10 pages citing extra biblical examples of the Greek use of baptizo. Here is his conclusion,
“Baptizo meant to dip, usually through submerging, but it also meant to overwhelm and so could be used whether the object was placed in an element (which was more common) or was overwhelmed by it (often in the metaphorical usages)…Pouring and sprinkling were distinct actions that were represented by different verbs and this usage too continued in Christian sources. When the latter speak of the pouring out of the Holy Spirit or the sprinkling of blood, they do not use baptize for these actions.” (Ferguson, 59)
 
Why would a translator get to a word and decide not to translate it and instead just spell it in English? There can be many reasons for this. In some instances the word had already come into the receptor language (in this case English) so that even though the Greek was retained through transliteration, people already knew what the word meant (satan, for instance). In the case of baptism the best explanation I can find is that translating it “to immerse” had political and religious ramifications in the days of the early English translations. They avoided raising those issues by retaining the Greek baptizo. In other words, when the religious practice of the day is pouring and sprinkling it has less ramifications to transliterate the word into “baptism” than it does to actually translate it “immerse.” If they had put immerse in every instance of baptizo (verb) or baptismos (noun) in the New Testament they ran the risk of people questioning their current religious practice and they feared what might result. That, at least, is the take that many people have on why baptism was not translated. I am trying to find a legitimate reference who says that is the case but cannot come up with it. I have looked at Ferguson’s new book on baptism but he doesn’t cover transliteration as he is more interested in the practice itself rather than what English translators did with it 1500 years later.
Translation & Meaning:
Baptizo primarily means to immerse. It can also be translated: to dip, wash, or plunge (BDAG, 164). In all instances the result is full immersion. In Everett Ferguson’s recent tome on baptism, Baptism in the early church, he spends over 10 pages citing extra biblical examples of the Greek use of baptizo. Here is his conclusion,
“Baptizo meant to dip, usually through submerging, but it also meant to overwhelm and so could be used whether the object was placed in an element (which was more common) or was overwhelmed by it (often in the metaphorical usages)…Pouring and sprinkling were distinct actions that were represented by different verbs and this usage too continued in Christian sources. When the latter speak of the pouring out of the Holy Spirit or the sprinkling of blood, they do not use baptize for these actions.” (Ferguson, 59)
First let me begin by noting immerse does not mean to submerge and emerge. Immerse puts one in water but it does not take out

second let me note the bible never speaks of baptizo into (eis) water

third let me note The baptism en the Holy spirit has a modal action of pouring

Let’s look at Scripture’s description of baptism with the Spirit and see: Acts 2:16-17 at Pentecost: " … in the last days, says God, I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh."

Acts 2:33: "Jesus … having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, … poured out this which you now see and hear."

Acts 10:45: " … on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Titus 3:6: " … The Holy Spirit whom (God) poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior."

Isaiah 44:3: "For I will pour water on him who is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my Spirit on your descendants, and My blessings upon your offspring."

The mode of the baptism with the Spirit is not dipping or what is called immersion but pouring. The spiritual washing (loutron) of regeneration and renewal is through the Holy Spirit, whom God poured out abundantly (Titus 3:5-6).

fourth the Jews baptised coming from the market place

Mark 7:3–4 (KJV 1900) — 3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

wash is baptizo here

Campbell in his translation writes

Mark 7:3 (for the Pharisees, and indeed all the Jews who observed the tradition of the elders, eat not until they have washed their hands by pouring a little water upon them: lo A Campbell

fourth let me note wash, cleanse purify is the only translation of baptizo which appears in most translations

English Standard VersionEnglish Standard Version
2 in 2 verses
Mark 7:4and when they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other traditions that they observe, such as the washing of cups and pots and copper vessels and dining couches.)
Luke 11:38The Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash before dinner.
King James Version
1 in 1 verse
Mark 7:4And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

The New International Version (1984)The New International Version (1984)
2 in 2 verses
Mark 7:4When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)
Luke 11:38But the Pharisee, noticing that Jesus did not first wash before the meal, was surprised.
New American Standard Bible, 1995 Edition: Paragraph VersionNASB 95
1 in 1 verse
Mark 7:4and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they cleanse themselves; and there are many other things which they have received in order to observe, such as the washing of cups and pitchers and copper pots.)


Fifth Old Testament prophesy of regeneration speaks of sprinkled water
Ezekiel 36:25–27 (KJV 1900) — 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

sixth many Old Testament purification were by sprinkling

Lev 14:51And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:
Num 8:7And thus shalt thou do unto them, to cleanse them: Sprinkle water of purifying upon them, and let them shave all their flesh, and let them wash their clothes, and so make themselves clean.
Num 19:18And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:
Num 19:19And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even.

seven No major modern translation translates baptizo by immerse
 
to all, It's just amazing. immerse, sprinkle, pour, or whatever. Romans 6:3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

was dirt sprinkle, pour, or was the person, immerse, or submerge in the dirt? My God.

101G.
 
to all, It's just amazing. immerse, sprinkle, pour, or whatever. Romans 6:3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"

was dirt sprinkle, pour, or was the person, immerse, or submerge in the dirt? My God.

101G.
Do you leave the person under water

BTW Jesus was not buried under dirt, he was placed in an above ground tomb

Also BTW there is no baptism into water in that verse
 
Do you leave the person under water
did the Lord Jesus rise? .... (smile).
BTW Jesus was not buried under dirt, he was placed in an above ground tomb
was he not covered?
Also BTW there is no baptism into water in that verse
with WATER, Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" it's the means.

101G.
 
did the Lord Jesus rise? .... (smile).

was he not covered?

with WATER, Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" it's the means.

101G.
yes he did

He was not covered in the same manner as one submerged underwater

with water is not into water

You can be washed with water without ever being submerrged under water
 
yes he did

He was not covered in the same manner as one submerged underwater

with water is not into water

You can be washed with water without ever being submerrged under water
and one can drink water and talk at the same time. Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:" so if he went out of the water he went IN TO the water.

101G
 
the tomb is GROUND, my God how hard is it? as a matter it was under and between ground above and below..... in dirt...

101G.
sorry Jesus was not buried under dirt but hewn out rock


Tomb cut out of rock

According to the Bible, Jesus Christ was buried in a “tomb cut out of rock” just after his crucifixion. Three days later, he awed his followers when he walked out of the tomb alive.

Inside Jesus' Tomb And The True Story Behind It - All That's Interes…

 
now, Baptise "With" the Holy Spirit. John 1:33 "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." and that happen on pentecost.

101G
 
now, Baptise "With" the Holy Spirit. John 1:33 "And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost." and that happen on pentecost.

101G
yes baptism with the holy Spirit as I noted
 
and one can drink water and talk at the same time. Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:" so if he went out of the water he went IN TO the water.

101G
You assume he came up from under water as opposed to coming out from the water

The text does not say that.

That he went into the water I do not doubt

What was done in the water is the question

You cannot determine that from that verse
 
error, of in new birth. with in work/empowerment. (smile) lol, oh my God,


101G.
You failed to prove that

There is no baptism of the Holy Spirit in scripture

The is only the baptism en the Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 12:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For by (en) one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Matt 3:11“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit and fire.
Mark 1:8I have baptized you with water, but he will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit.”
Luke 3:16John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with (en) the Holy Spirit and fire.

It's all the same

The Greek verb baptizo the greek preposition en and the holy Spirit



Taking the last item first, it is clear that Paul is speaking about essentially the same kind of experience as did John, since he uses the same construction in the Greek, with the only difference being the addition of the word “one” [Spirit] and the past tense. He also uses the passive voice, but that is to be expected with the subject shifting from “He” [Jesus] to “we” [Christians]. If we conclude that Paul is speaking of the same experience as the other texts, then it should be clear that Spirit baptism could not be subsequent to conversion, since Paul says it is the means by which believers are incorporated into the body of Christ. It must happen at conversion, as was the case in Acts, as one of the constellations of Spirit blessings bestowed on believers at that moment—they are born of the Spirit (John 3:5), sealed in the Spirit (Eph. 1:13), and receive the gift of the indwelling Spirit (Rom. 8:9–11)1

1 Chad Brand, “Baptism With/in the Holy Spirit,” Holman Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers, 2003), 170.

Paul’s only use of the metaphor refers to reception of the Holy Spirit at conversion: “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink” (1 Cor 12:13 NIV). Paul refers to the believers’ common experience of conversion and connects reception of the Spirit to conversion (compare Gal 3:3; 2 Cor 1:21–22; Eph 1:13–14; Rom 8:9). Peter’s statement in Acts 11:15–16 refers back to the simpler expression “received the Holy Spirit” in the narrative of Acts 10:47. Thus, the unified usage of the metaphor “baptism in the Holy Spirit” in the Gospels and Acts fits with Paul’s use of the phrase to refer to the reception of the Holy Spirit at conversion.1

1 Douglas S. Huffman and Jamie N. Hausherr, “Baptism of the Spirit,” The Lexham Bible Dictionary (Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2016).
 
What was done in the water is the question

You cannot determine that from that verse
Matthew 3:16 "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:"
if he was already in water he was under water. for if it was a sprinkle or a pouring why even get in the water?

101G.
 
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