Knowing you're saved?

[praise_yeshua]

One of the most important questions that a person can ever ask is.....

Just "how do I know I'm saved". Whether you realize it or not, there are many many people that call themselves Christians they really have little confidence in their standing with God. Peter knew this and wrote....

2Peter 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

John knew this and said...
1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

There have been many arguments over the years among Christians concerning the words of Peter and John. Most everyone has an opinion. However, there has been little no argument for the Scriptures I'm about to reference. So little argument that most don't even pay attention to them.

The Spirit of God is the answer as reference by Paul.....

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Many people ask the wrong person. I've never sought the confirmation of sonship with God and not had the Spirit of God give me peace. Never. God confirms His own through the Spirit of God.

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Most Christians today, are afraid of the emotional connection that exists between God and His own children. We cry "abba father" from our very souls.

Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

 

[civic]

This topic is much needed in our day. Its all about having a relationship with Christ. I believe there is a one to one correlation between spending time cultivating that relationship with Him and our assurance/confidence that comes from knowing Him personally. We know Him through His Word and speaks to us through His Word and we communicate to Him through prayer. And like any other relationship the more quality time we spend with someone the more we grow to love and appreciate them. The same is true with our relationship with God.

 

[Diserner]

The problem with this—although I do believe God confirms to us experientially we are regenerate—is twofold.

One is, lots of people say that God confirms they are saved that I know for sure are not, because they deny essential Biblical truths.

Two is, although God has confirmed my salvation to me, I've had long periods of time, where I struggled with severe doubts and fears.

So, you can be saved, and not feel God assures you are saved, and you can feel God assures you are saved, and not be saved.


That's a logical problem for sure, and it's very troublesome to think about.

I think the solution is, to always follow the light you have and live in that integrity, to continually pray specifically to avoid deception and for God to show your true state, and to always honor the spiritual sufficiency of the Bible.

We could say that there should be a time that you know without a shadow of a doubt God confirmed your salvation, and that experience can carry you through times of struggling with doubt. But again, I know people who feel like they've never had a supernatural confirmation for one reason or the other, and we can take the promise of Scripture completely by faith with no tangible feelings, that our trust in Christ's atonement will indeed save us. I do think God will grant us some feelings if we seek him for it. My Dad never even knew exactly when he got saved and was troubled that he just never felt anything for years. There was a point I am certain God granted him this assurance.


Here's my take on this:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/you-are-a-smart-christian-for-many-years%E2%80%94but-do-not-assume-that-makes-you-truly-born-again.598/

 

[civic]

The problem with this—although I do believe God confirms to us experientially we are regenerate—is twofold.

One is, lots of people say that God confirms they are saved that I know for sure are not, because they deny essential Biblical truths.

Two is, although God has confirmed my salvation to me, I've had long periods of time, where I struggled with severe doubts and fears.

So, you can be saved, and not feel God assures you are saved, and you can feel God assures you are saved, and not be saved.


That's a logical problem for sure, and it's very troublesome to think about.

I think the solution is, to always follow the light you have and live in that integrity, to continually pray specifically to avoid deception and for God to show your true state, and to always honor the spiritual sufficiency of the Bible.

We could say that there should be a time that you know without a shadow of a doubt God confirmed your salvation, and that experience can carry you through times of struggling with doubt. But again, I know people who feel like they've never had a supernatural confirmation for one reason or the other, and we can take the promise of Scripture completely by faith with no tangible feelings, that our trust in Christ's atonement will indeed save us. I do think God will grant us some feelings if we seek him for it. My Dad never even knew exactly when he got saved and was troubled that he just never felt anything for years. There was a point I am certain God granted him this assurance.


Here's my take on this:

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/you-are-a-smart-christian-for-many-years%E2%80%94but-do-not-assume-that-makes-you-truly-born-again.598/

Wouldn't you agree just like with any earthly relationship we have down here that it depends upon how its nurtured ? The time and quality put into the relationship has a bearing on how we view its stability ? We were created to have relationship first and foremost with our Creator and He said it was not good for man to be alone and gave man a companion to share life together with and glorify Him.

I think the problem is in the church and I see it firsthand with many in our small groups and mens discipleship is God is afar, not near, impersonal not personal, there but not beside me, around us but not in us. God is distant to most and not our companion who leads, guides us.

For me personally I cannot not think about Him throughout my day. He is on my mind most of the time. I'm not saying I don't struggle with sin, obeying Him etc...... But just like a parent child relationship there is trust, love, guidance, forgiveness, restoration, joy, happiness and pain that goes along with disappointing Him or pleasing Him.

 

[Soyeong]

One of the most important questions that a person can ever ask is.....

Just "how do I know I'm saved". Whether you realize it or not, there are many many people that call themselves Christians they really have little confidence in their standing with God. Peter knew this and wrote....

2Peter 1:10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

John knew this and said...
1Jn 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

There have been many arguments over the years among Christians concerning the words of Peter and John. Most everyone has an opinion. However, there has been little no argument for the Scriptures I'm about to reference. So little argument that most don't even pay attention to them.

The Spirit of God is the answer as reference by Paul.....

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Many people ask the wrong person. I've never sought the confirmation of sonship with God and not had the Spirit of God give me peace. Never. God confirms His own through the Spirit of God.

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Most Christians today, are afraid of the emotional connection that exists between God and His own children. We cry "abba father" from our very souls.

Rom 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

In Romans 8:4-16, those who are born of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law, and it is by expressing the fruits of the Spirit through our obedience to it that the Spirit bears witness to us that we are children of God. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is the way that he saves us from not not living in obedience to it. For example, someone honoring their parents through faith in Jesus is how they can know that they he is saving them from not honoring their parents.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The problem with this—although I do believe God confirms to us experientially we are regenerate—is twofold.

Can you name a unbiblical truth that disqualifies? I do understand your argument. I do not believe that once a son is born, that the Spirit of God leaves them. I've known many times in my life that I was unpleasing to God. Dirty. Rebellious. I knew it because of the Spirit of God. Not for the absence of the Spirit of God. I also believe what Jesus said....

Luk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

I believe based upon experience and the Scriptures that God assures His own. Even if they are rebellious.

What child isn't rebellious. God expects rebellion from us. He chasen His own through the Spirit give to us.

Two is, although God has confirmed my salvation to me, I've had long periods of time, where I struggled with severe doubts and fears.

So, you can be saved, and not feel God assures you are saved, and you can feel God assures you are saved, and not be saved.

One is, lots of people say that God confirms they are saved that I know for sure are not, because they deny essential Biblical truths.

In your case, I believe you hold the position that men can fall from Grace. In that case, wouldn't it be true that you believe the Spirit of God leaves a person?

To understand the difference, we must understand God's peace. Once you experience it. Once you live it. There no doubt what it is. It is peace that is there regardless of circumstances. Peace that is gifted. Peace external to your own voice. Peace when you shouldn't have peace. "Other worldly" peace. Supernatural peace.

When we struggle to know, God would not leave us without peace. Jesus said....

Joh 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

That's a logical problem for sure, and it's very troublesome to think about.

I think the solution is, to always follow the light you have and live in that integrity, to continually pray specifically to avoid deception and for God to show your true state, and to always honor the spiritual sufficiency of the Bible.

Chastening is for sons. If you ask God. (you might be talking to an idol. Not saying you @dizerner. Just a generic reference)... but you ask God to help you know His peace, there is zero doubt in my mind that God wouldn't give to you. Regardless of being rebellious or not.

We could say that there should be a time that you know without a shadow of a doubt God confirmed your salvation, and that experience can carry you through times of struggling with doubt. But again, I know people who feel like they've never had a supernatural confirmation for one reason or the other, and we can take the promise of Scripture completely by faith with no tangible feelings, that our trust in Christ's atonement will indeed save us. I do think God will grant us some feelings if we seek him for it. My Dad never even knew exactly when he got saved and was troubled that he just never felt anything for years. There was a point I am certain God granted him this assurance.

There are some.... "Still in the womb" till Christ is formed in them. There is a struggle that takes place within a person when they start seeking God. I experienced it myself. It began when I was a very young man. I wasn't even 10 years old. I begged God to save me but it was based upon what someone else wanted for me. It was based upon fear. (Not saying fear is bad). I never was saved until I was 16 years old. My faith began early but I never knew what I need to have faith IN until I was 16 years old. It was just some words someone else believed in. Not really my own. I believe the begins of faith start there. Those that seek.... find. It might take a while, but I believe it eventually happens or they fail of the Grace of God. They learn what it means and then willing abandon what they know to be true. It is fearful thing to arrive at such a state.[/QUOTE]

 

[praise_yeshua]

In Romans 8:4-16, those who are born of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law, and it is by expressing the fruits of the Spirit through our obedience to it that the Spirit bears witness to us that we are children of God. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20), so living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is the way that he saves us from not not living in obedience to it. For example, someone honoring their parents through faith in Jesus is how they can know that they he is saving them from not honoring their parents.

Yeah.. .yeah.... I know you believe you've found life in Moses. That is all I'm going to say to you about this. You're becoming a broken record.

I'll ask you one question. Do you have peace from the Spirit of God and how do you recognize such peace?

 

[Soyeong]

Yeah.. .yeah.... I know you believe you've found life in Moses. That is all I'm going to say to you about this. You're becoming a broken record.

Christ said in Matthew 19:17 that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, and in Luke 10:25-28, he confirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, so obedience to it is the way to have eternal life in Christ.

I'll ask you one question. Do you have peace from the Spirit of God and how do you recognize such peace?

Indeed, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law and obedience to it is the way to recognize such peace. In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Jesus is our peace, and Isaiah 9:6, he is the Prince of Peace.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Christ said in Matthew 19:17 that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments, and in Luke 10:25-28, he confirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, so obedience to it is the way to have eternal life in Christ.


Indeed, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law and obedience to it is the way to recognize such peace. In Matthew 11:28-30 and Jeremiah 6:16-19, the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Ephesians 2:12-19, Jesus is our peace, and Isaiah 9:6, he is the Prince of Peace.

So peace is not an emotion? I'm asking you about an emotional connection. Peace is a feeling. How can you possibly deny this. There is no "FEELING" in what you're writing.

 

[Soyeong]

So peace is not an emotion? I'm asking you about an emotional connection. Peace is a feeling. How can you possibly deny this. There is no "FEELING" in what you're writing.

No, I did not say that it is not an emotion. I did not deny that. Please point to where I denied that.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, I did not say that it is not an emotion. I did not deny that. Please point to where I denied that.

I never said you denied. I said I can't see you denying it. I can't see anyone denying it. Sorry if I confused you. My mistake.

I'm asking you to answer with your feelings. This is an emotional connection that exists. Do you treasure the peace of God that passes "all understanding"....

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

It a treasure to me.

 

[Soyeong]

I never said you denied. I said I can't see you denying it. I can't see anyone denying it. Sorry if I confused you. My mistake.

I'm asking you to answer with your feelings. This is an emotional connection that exists. Do you treasure the peace of God that passes "all understanding"....

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

It a treasure to me.

Indeed.

 

[civic]

I never said you denied. I said I can't see you denying it. I can't see anyone denying it. Sorry if I confused you. My mistake.

I'm asking you to answer with your feelings. This is an emotional connection that exists. Do you treasure the peace of God that passes "all understanding"....

Php 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

It a treasure to me.

It’s both the mind and the heart they are interconnected. The heart follows the Mind. As a man thinketh in his heart so is he.

 

[Overjoyed]

If my own Salvation experience is of any example then I believe when you come to know Jesus then you know that you're saved. I've been through a lot of experiences in my life but nothing like that one. After I was saved a friend asked me what it was like and my answer to him was "Like the weight of the world had been taken off of my shoulders". Old friends didn't even recognize me, that's how much of a change person I was.

I know that during our walk with the Lord and Satan may try to lie to our minds and convince us that we're not really saved. But if you've been reading the word of God you know that he's a liar, the father of lies and there's no truth in him.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Indeed.

Indeed? Can you expand upon that?

 

[praise_yeshua]

It’s both the mind and the heart they are interconnected. The heart follows the Mind. As a man thinketh in his heart so is he.

I agree to a degree. There is a two way connection. The mind should follow the heart? That is the case with salvation. We leans not on our understanding of all things. God deals with the heart. Man must often abandon what he thinks to trust God for what he doesn't know.