Kirk Cameron and annihilationism

[praise_yeshua]

Yep that’s the biblical , historical and orthodox position of the church since the times of the Apostles

Yep. He seems to think it was the blood of Christ that animated His life.

It wasn't.

In fact, no flesh could have lived as long as He did given the blood loss he experienced. They would have long went into shock and died.

 

[praise_yeshua]

personally you are 100% wrong.

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

There are "things" in heaven. There are "things" in the earth. The earth is patterned after heavenly things.

No matter how someone tries to "slice it". A "thing" is tangible. Substantive. It has mass. It takes up space.

 

[civic]

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

There are "things" in heaven. There are "things" in the earth. The earth is patterned after heavenly things.

No matter how someone tries to "slice it". A "thing" is tangible. Substantive. It has mass. It takes up space.

Ditto

 

[civic]

Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

There are "things" in heaven. There are "things" in the earth. The earth is patterned after heavenly things.

No matter how someone tries to "slice it". A "thing" is tangible. Substantive. It has mass. It takes up space.

And to think that the New Jerusalem coming out of heaven is not physical.

That would mean the following are not physical things.

streets
gold
walls
water
tree's
fruit
jasper
sapphire
emerald
onyx
topaz
ruby
turquoise
amethyst
pearls
precious stones
kings
nations
book of life
scroll

oh wait its all incorporeal and immaterial.

 

[Jim]

You do not believe the universe exists physically? Big bang or no?
You do not believe that man actually walked on the moon? That was pretty physical.

@FreeInChrist , I said until creation of this universe there was nothing physical.

 

[Jim]

nope His humility was temporal- ie for a little while. He is now in all His Glory without restriction or laying aside His rights of being equal with God using it to His own advantage as per scripture.

next fallacy

If He is still in a human body, then He is still a little lower than the angels.

Next fallacy

 

[Jim]

personally you are 100% wrong.

You talking about yourself again.

 

[Jim]

The new body raised up is stated to be spiritual one in the sense that its the former physical body now in a glorified form, reading for eternity with God

You cant' find that anywhere in scripture.

 

[Jim]

I want to take this slow. If we were having a verbal conversation, this would be much easier.

Define natural.
Define physical.

I'll go first.

1. The word nature is used in a significant sense in the Scriptures in many different places.

For example,

1Co 11:14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
1Co 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

Most people focus upon "hair length" in these verses, but I do not. Paul distinct appeals to nature for evidence. He does this because there is ZERO evidence from Scripture that details the length of hair that men and women should wear.

We must accept the very fact that "nature" teaches us. Paul repeats this very "theme" later in his writings in Romans 1.

Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people are without excuse. NET edition

Notice. "because they are understood through what has been made"......

NATURE.

I mention the following because this battle you're fighting yourself has long been fought in the history of men. In theology, we reference this "subject" as Anthropomorphism.

Many Christians fear this subject because they associate it with "Idolatry". I believe you do the same. I do not. Man was made in the image of God. Adam carried forth the attributes of God in his very construction. We ourselves craft/create/fabricate things trying to give to those creations our characteristics. AI is just another attempt in the long history of man's attempts to duplicate what was done in own existence.

You should NOT fear the topic of Anthropomorphism. We discern our very existence through our experience. The Scriptures declare this to be true in the verses I posted above. I can list many more, but you should consider these verses I've shared with you.

2. Physical

This where the conversation gets a little "muddy". The English word "Physical" has no true Greek or Hebrew origins. "Physical" is really a "hodgepodge" of many different words. Suffice it to say. Many people see the word "Physical" to be synonymous with nature.

The Greek source root φύσις comes to use THROUGH Latin. You should realize that Latin is a complicated language that has spawned many modern misunderstands about the source.

φύσις = Physis

Look familiar? It is the very word that Paul used in 1Co 11:14 that is translated in most all English translation as "nature". To me, it most closely aligns with what we would reference as the study of "Physics" today.

Physics is all about matter. Nature is all about matter. I'm not trying to say that Physics defines God. Not in the least. However, Physics does help us understand what is around us. Physics is more than a scientific exploration to "quantify" and categorize everything that exists.

Physics is philosophical. Also, philosophy in nature does fit into some sense of "categorization" of Physics.

And... that is where we are right here.

You are struggling to categorize "Spiritual" absent any Physical attributes. Which really is nonsensical.

Where is heaven? Maybe this will help. Is heaven physical?

To deal with this, you can't deny the tangible nature of heaven.

All of that is just fine, now define specifically a spiritual body. John said we haven't seen such a body yet because it has not yet appeared (1 John 3:2). In spite of that, you think you know what it is and what it will look like. You think there might be a bit of hubris in that?

 

[civic]

If He is still in a human body, then He is still a little lower than the angels.

Next fallacy

Nope I debunked your misunderstanding of that passage already

 

[Jim]

The flesh of Christ didn't decay. It lost all the blood that was in it and didn't decay.

Where do you read that? You think He bled to death? I don't think so.

 

[civic]

You cant' find that anywhere in scripture.

Projecting.

Neither can you find the Trinity so you better reject it.

Next fallacy

 

[Jim]

Nope I debunked your misunderstanding of that passage already

You might think that. But that is just another of your lack of understanding either things of this world or things of the next one.

Next fallacy

 

[Jim]

Projecting.

Neither can you find the Trinity so you better reject it.

Next fallacy

I don't need to find Trinity, I just need to find that God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, i.e., three in one.

Next fallacy

 

[civic]

I don't need to find Trinity, I just need to find that God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, i.e., three in one.

Next fallacy

Not there it doesn’t say that anywhere you made that up.

Next fallacy

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Jim

You seem to fail to grasp that Jesus is not a normal human being like you are. HE IS GOD!

 

[Jim]

Not there it doesn’t say that anywhere you made that up.

Next fallacy

Yeah it does; but I am not going to bother finding it for you. I will just leave that for you to search on.

Next fallacy.

 

[Jim]

@Jim

You seem to fail to grasp that Jesus is not a normal human being like you are. HE IS GOD!

Jesus took on the flesh and blood of the human being.

Heb 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Heb 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

The only real difference was His Spirit, the Word.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist , I said until creation of this universe there was nothing physical.

And all the other universes because there are more then one and guaranteed we were not the first... IMO we were the one that was the mostconvienient to what God had in mind.

But it is unteresting to know that your are among the YEC folks ....

 

[Jim]

And all the other universes because there are more then one and guaranteed we were not the first... IMO we were the one that was the mostconvienient to what God had in mind.

But it is unteresting to know that your are among the YEC folks ....

I am an Old Earth Creationist -- an OEC.