Kirk Cameron and annihilationism

[Wick Stick]

I hear your, but isn't that what Paul spoke about in Romans 8. We are to be, in Paul's words, governed by the Spirit now in this life

Yes, and we struggle at being spirit-powered (pneumatikos) because we're still in bodies that are designed to be powered in a different fashion (psuchikos).

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

 

[Wick Stick]

Why didn't God, in the beginning, create us as you have described the next life to be? Why do we have to go through this hell on earth? Why not the spiritual body from the very beginning?

Kind of goes back to that idea from earlier that the creation wasn't perfection from the start. That it started out chaotic, and God's been working on it, forming it into something more orderly, ever since.

If that is indeed the way of God, then... why would humanity be exempt from that process?

 

[Jim]

why ? free will is why- thats the basis for why God is love.

Will we not have free will in the next life, our eternal life?

 

[civic]

Will we not have free will in the next life, our eternal life?

we will have perfect freedom, perfect will, perfect mind, perfect heart, perfect body, perfect eternity without the ability/capability to sin. That will be done away with permanently.

Bible Truth 101. All the former will be left behind, forgotten forever. No more sorrow, no more tears, no more pain, no more death etc........ All wiped away- Revelation 21:4

We will be imperishable , immortal, incorruptible as per 1 Corinthians 15. We will be like Jesus as per 1 John 3:2.

hope this helps !!!

 

[FreeInChrist]

I see nothing in the description of Jesus, His speaking, or His actions after His resurrection that would indicate that to be true. In fact, my reading of such passages strongly indicate that was not true.

@FreeInChrist, the problem that I see in the "spiritual" body being some sort of corporeal body is that is the body that we will have in our eternal life in heaven. Such an existence makes no sense to me. Does that final corporal body need to eat, drink, sleep, and all the rest? Does it have eyes to see, ears to hear, arms and hands to manipulate things, legs and feet to walk and move, on, and on, and on? That sounds too much like we will be back to the days of the cave man existence.

If, as some have suggested, the new heaven and new earth will essentially be a paradise as originally created as Eden only without the tree of forbidden fruit, then I have to ask, "Why didn't God create it that way in the first place"? Why go through all of what exists now to simply end up back in Eden plus the eternal condemnation of so very, very many who didn't make it? None of that makes any sense to me at all.

Our current bodies are perishable, weak, and mortal.

After the resurrection, believers will receive glorified bodies, modeled on Jesus’ resurrection body—imperishable, immortal, and fully aligned with God’s glory.

These bodies are physical yet spiritual, capable of perfect fellowship with God, free from sin and decay.

I see the following....
The Bible teaches that believers will receive a glorified body after the resurrection, modeled on Jesus’ resurrection body. Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 15 that our current bodies are perishable, weak, and mortal, but they will be transformed into bodies that are imperishable, powerful, and glorious. Philippians 3:21 adds that Christ will change our “lowly body to be like His glorious body,” showing that the resurrection body will reflect His divine perfection. Romans 8:23 and 1 John 3:2 affirm that this transformation is part of our redemption and likeness to Christ. A glorified body is spiritual yet physical, free from decay, suffering, sin, and death, and fully suited for eternal life with God (Rev 21:4). In short, the glorified body is the perfected form God has prepared for believers—a body that honors Him, reflects His glory, and is fit for everlasting fellowship with Him.

At the last supper Jesus told them he would not drink of the vine until they were all together in heaven.

This tells me the spirits they will be have form or they could not do that.

 

[JesusFan]

Will we not have free will in the next life, our eternal life?

We will have perfected i us the fullness of the Mind of Christ, and shall just think and act as Jesus did and does

 

[Jim]

we will have perfect freedom, perfect will, perfect mind, perfect heart, perfect body, perfect eternity without the ability/capability to sin. That will be done away with permanently.

Bible Truth 101. All the former will be left behind, forgotten forever. No more sorrow, no more tears, no more pain, no more death etc........ All wiped away- Revelation 21:4

We will be imperishable , immortal, incorruptible as per 1 Corinthians 15. We will be like Jesus as per 1 John 3:2.

hope this helps !!!

So why didn't God create us in that way from the very beginning? Why all of this stuff that we are living through now?

 

[Jim]

We will have perfected i us the fullness of the Mind of Christ, and shall just think and act as Jesus did and does

Again, why didn't God do that from the very beginning? Why do we have to go through all of this in the here and now?

 

[Jim]

Our current bodies are perishable, weak, and mortal.

Yes, so why did God do all of this the way He did? Why the perishable, weak and mortal now if He is going to give us the glorified bodies, imperishable, immortal and fully aligned with God's glory?

 

[civic]

So why didn't God create us in that way from the very beginning? Why all of this stuff that we are living through now?

Ask Him since He doesn’t say why

 

[Jim]

Ask Him since He doesn’t say why

I don't need to ask Him that, since it isn't going to happen the way you are describing it. You are the one describing it all as the Garden done right this time, with the perfect body and all.

 

[civic]

I don't need to ask Him that, since it isn't going to happen the way you are describing it. You are the one describing it all as the Garden done right this time, with the perfect body and all.

It will happen in exactly the way I said since it’s straight out of the Bible verbatim

 

[FreeInChrist]

Yes, so why did God do all of this the way He did? Why the perishable, weak and mortal now if He is going to give us the glorified bodies, imperishable, immortal and fully aligned with God's glory?

Maybe because not everyone will make the grade so to speak. Those who are not heaven bound should not have them And once we do meaning we can travel at the speed of light, or walk through closed doors like Jesus did...
we dont need that here.

All those who rotted in the ground before us... we know that corruption cannot go to heaven so the bodies are left behind and then when appropriate and Jesus comes... and we are called upward... our spirits are reunited in a body that will surpass your wildest dreams... no agin, no sickness , no pains... just able to love our LORD as was intended.

 

[praise_yeshua]

OK, But no one has yet defined that last word, "bod y", when the first word, "spiritual", is used with it.

I was not conflating anything. That was in response to @Wick Stick's attempt to explain what a "spiritual" body is. But of course you knew that.

I didn't.

Material. Tangible just like the wind. We have discussed this. Call it atomic structure. It is never "nothing".

 

[Jim]

It will happen in exactly the way I said since it’s straight out of the Bible verbatim

With all due respect to you @civic, as a Christian believer, as I see it, with you being in the premillennial camp, almost nothing that you believe and profess that occurs to us past dying is scripturally correct.

 

[Jim]

Material. Tangible just like the wind. We have discussed this. Call it atomic structure. It is never "nothing".

Is your spirit material, tangible just like the wind?

 

[civic]

With all due respect to you @civic, as a Christian believer, as I see it, with you being in the premillennial camp, almost nothing that you believe and profess that occurs to us past dying is scripturally correct.

Poisoning the well fallacy. The gospel truth, resurrection, Trinity, Deity of Christ , 2nd Coming have nothing to do with being premillennial.

 

[Jim]

Maybe because not everyone will make the grade so to speak. Those who are not heaven bound should not have them And once we do meaning we can travel at the speed of light, or walk through closed doors like Jesus did...
we dont need that here.

All those who rotted in the ground before us... we know that corruption cannot go to heaven so the bodies are left behind and then when appropriate and Jesus comes... and we are called upward... our spirits are reunited in a body that will surpass your wildest dreams... no agin, no sickness , no pains... just able to love our LORD as was intended.

But if God can produce this new heaven and new earth in which we all live in material, glorified, immortal bodies and no longer be tempted to disobey God, why didn't He do that to begin with? In that way, there would be no human beings receiving eternal condemnation.

 

[Jim]

Poisoning the well fallacy. The gospel truth, resurrection, Trinity, Deity of Christ , 2nd Coming have nothing to do with being premillennial.

Perhaps not directly, but in being so wrong about the end times, it is not very likely to be correct about what follows.

 

[civic]

But if God can produce this new heaven and new earth in which we all live in material, glorified, immortal bodies and no longer be tempted to disobey God, why didn't He do that to begin with? In that way, there would be no human beings receiving eternal condemnation.

Then there would be no free will choice to love God, that’s why.