the Word was with God the father, and was also Himself very God, and was born as Jesus the Christ
Jesus is not returning
- Thread starter atpollard
- Start date
TibiasDad
Active Member
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Ah, I went to my current Ai source and asked about Googles Ai source of which I was told that would be Gemini. (Oddly Gemini perched itself on my tab bar one day, uninvited.... But I digress.)
So here is the reply that came from the one I more often or not check against these days....
____________________
This is exactly the kind of place where Gemini-style summaries often sound “neutral” but actually smuggle in weak logic.
What it gave you is basically a generic AI fence-sitting answer, not a strong biblical argument. It presents both sides as equally plausible without actually testing whether the objections make sense.
Biblically and logically.
The Core Claim They’re Using
Isaiah 44:24
They argue:
“Alone/by myself = therefore only one Person exists, so no Trinity.”That sounds strong at first… but it doesn’t actually follow.
Why their logic fails
① “Alone” excludes other gods — not God’s own Spirit or Word
Look at Isaiah’s context.
Repeated theme:
- 44:6 — “besides me there is no God”
- 44:8 — “Is there a God besides me? I know not any”
- 45:5 — “there is no other”
What’s Isaiah fighting?
Idolatry and pagan polytheism, not the Trinity.
So “alone” means:
no rival gods not “no internal plurality within God”If “alone” meant “one single person only,” then you’d also have to deny:
- God’s Spirit (Gen 1:2)
- God’s Wisdom (Prov 8)
- God’s Word (Ps 33:6)
Yet Scripture shows all three active in creation.
So “alone” cannot mean “no distinctions within God.”
It means “no other deity helped.”
Huge difference.
② The Old Testament itself shows plurality in creation
This is what Unitarians conveniently ignore.
Genesis 1:26
Not angels (we’re not made in angels’ image).
This is internal divine plurality.
Psalm 33:6
Creation by:
- LORD
- Word
- Spirit
That’s already triadic.
Isaiah 48:16
This one is devastating to Unitarianism:
Three persons speaking:
- the Speaker
- the LORD God
- His Spirit
Yet still one God.
So Isaiah himself shows plurality — in the same book!
Meaning 44:24 cannot mean “only one person exists.”
③ The New Testament explicitly says Jesus created
If Isaiah 44:24 means only one Person created, then you create a contradiction with the NT.
But Scripture doesn’t contradict itself — interpretations do.
John 1:3
Colossians 1:16
Hebrews 1:2
Hebrews 1:10 (quoting Psalm 102 about Yahweh)
Applies Creator-Yahweh language directly to the Son.
So either:
A) Jesus is Creator God
or
B) the Bible contradicts itself
The Trinity resolves it perfectly:
One God three Persons one divine act of creationSo “alone” = no other gods
NOT = no Son or Spirit
The logical mistake Gemini made
Gemini framed it like:
But that’s shallow.
Because:
If “I alone” excludes the Son,
then Jesus cannot be Creator,
which contradicts multiple clear NT passages.
Therefore their interpretation fails.
A clean, punchy response you could post
Here’s something short and sharp you can use:
DavidTree
Active Member
SIMPLEAh, I went to my current Ai source and asked about Googles Ai source of which I was told that would be Gemini. (Oddly Gemini perched itself on my tab bar one day, uninvited.... But I digress.)
So here is the reply that came from the one I more often or not check against these days....
____________________
This is exactly the kind of place where Gemini-style summaries often sound “neutral” but actually smuggle in weak logic.
What it gave you is basically a generic AI fence-sitting answer, not a strong biblical argument. It presents both sides as equally plausible without actually testing whether the objections make sense.
Biblically and logically.
Isaiah 44:24
They argue:
That sounds strong at first… but it doesn’t actually follow.
① “Alone” excludes other gods — not God’s own Spirit or Word
Look at Isaiah’s context.
Repeated theme:
- 44:6 — “besides me there is no God”
- 44:8 — “Is there a God besides me? I know not any”
- 45:5 — “there is no other”
What’s Isaiah fighting?
Idolatry and pagan polytheism, not the Trinity.
So “alone” means:
If “alone” meant “one single person only,” then you’d also have to deny:
- God’s Spirit (Gen 1:2)
- God’s Wisdom (Prov 8)
- God’s Word (Ps 33:6)
Yet Scripture shows all three active in creation.
So “alone” cannot mean “no distinctions within God.”
It means “no other deity helped.”
Huge difference.
② The Old Testament itself shows plurality in creation
This is what Unitarians conveniently ignore.
Genesis 1:26
Not angels (we’re not made in angels’ image).
This is internal divine plurality.
Psalm 33:6
Creation by:
- LORD
- Word
- Spirit
That’s already triadic.
Isaiah 48:16
This one is devastating to Unitarianism:
Three persons speaking:
- the Speaker
- the LORD God
- His Spirit
Yet still one God.
So Isaiah himself shows plurality — in the same book!
Meaning 44:24 cannot mean “only one person exists.”
③ The New Testament explicitly says Jesus created
If Isaiah 44:24 means only one Person created, then you create a contradiction with the NT.
But Scripture doesn’t contradict itself — interpretations do.
John 1:3
Colossians 1:16
Hebrews 1:2
Hebrews 1:10 (quoting Psalm 102 about Yahweh)
Applies Creator-Yahweh language directly to the Son.
So either:
A) Jesus is Creator God
or
B) the Bible contradicts itself
The Trinity resolves it perfectly:
So “alone” = no other gods
NOT = no Son or Spirit
Gemini framed it like:
But that’s shallow.
Because:
If “I alone” excludes the Son,
then Jesus cannot be Creator,
which contradicts multiple clear NT passages.
Therefore their interpretation fails.
Here’s something short and sharp you can use:
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Very true.... but it gave me a nuance that I admit I never thought of and that is...“Alone” excludes other gods — not God’s own Spirit or Word"
"So “alone” means:
no rival gods not “no internal plurality within God”
DavidTree
Active Member
CORRECT
“Alone” excludes other gods — not God’s own Spirit or Word"
"So “alone” means:
i shared this Truth with @101G months ago, but he refuses to accept the overwhelming evidence in Scripture of the Plurality of Elohim as THREE
Shalom
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Yes, there are those who could have Jesus come stand right in front of them with the Holy Spirit as a dove on His shoulder saying "We are God" and they would call him either a liar or an imposter.
I doth think there is proof enough for some folks, which is a shame.
Blessings
101G
Active Member
GINOLJC, to all
ARE you kidding? did you not read your own verses used... listen to the verse,
"and behold, a voice from the heavens said". the verse never said that this is the voice of the Father. you made the mistake of what the voice said. in this YOU assumed that this is the Father's voice. see you assumed this by what was said. the verse NEVER SAID THAT IT'S the "Father" voice. the verse said "A VOICE". please reframe yourself from assumptions ... ok.
ONE PERSON, now read the very next verse please.... (SMILE).
my God how Gross deceived so many Christians are.
101G.
atpollard
Active Member
Nope, not kidding. Did you pay attention to what the VOICE (from heaven) actually SAID?
"THIS is my SON" ... who can say "This is my son" except the "Father" or "Mother" of the person being spoken of.
Thus we have in that verse (at the same time, but in 3 different locations):
- "Jesus" standing in the water (having just risen from baptism)
- The "Spirit of God" in the air descending as a dove.
- SOMEONE ("father" or "mother") in heaven speaking "This is my beloved son".
... or God the Father WAS in Heaven (where no man had seen him) and was speaking about His Son.
The critical point was not that it was a voice from heaven, but that the voice from heaven claimed to be the Father of Jesus (hence the phrase "my beloved son").
101G
Active Member
your First error of understanding. the Hebrew term "Beginning" is
H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
NOTE: definition #1. FIRST yes, but FIRST how? ..... in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", and "RANK".
NOW your second ERROR, .... the term GOD: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
Compare: H5945, H7706, H8199, H4397
NOTE [plural of H433] which is the KEY in understanding the the first definition in "beginning", 1. the first, in place, time, order or rank. please understand the term "of". using the W.E. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, the term "of" means, "of translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction."
in the ordinal designation of "FIRST" and "LAST" which is the "ORDER" of GOD in the term beginning, the "First is the Subject, and the "Last" is the Objective..... OF, OF, OF, OF, God ... Oh my God this is just too easy not to understand.
NOTE, the [plural of H433] of, of, of, which is the same one person, in ordinal designation of the Subjective and the Objective "of" God.... how easy can it get.
101G.
101G
Active Member
that's 101G'd point. again LISTEN and LEARN, Genesis 22:11 "And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I."Genesis 22:12 "And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me."
WHO SPOKE OUT OF HEAVEN? the angel of the LORD. again,
Genesis 22:15 "And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,"Genesis 22:16 "And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:"Genesis 22:17 "That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;"Genesis 22:18 "And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice."
who was speaking here? see your MISTAKE now. the angel was speaking for God. Oh my, my, UNDERSTAND, not only God speak from heaven. see, you assumed by what was said you, yes, you, falsley assumed.... because the scripture in Matthews said, "and behold, a voice from the heavens said". it never said the voice was the Father's.... you assumed that. so, you're reproved.
101G.
atpollard
Active Member
Not that voice, you were asking if I was kidding about THIS voice ...
Matthew 3:16-17 [NASB]
After He was baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove [and] settling on Him, and behold, a voice from the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."
Matthew 3:16-17 [NASB]
After He was baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove [and] settling on Him, and behold, a voice from the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."
101G
Active Member
my God, you still don't understand .... do you? the verse never say it's the Father's voice, it said, "A VOICE".
IF YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND .... NO PROBLEM...
101G.
DavidTree
Active Member
ELOHIM is PLURAL and First over Creation
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
atpollard
Active Member
My god, you still don't understand ... do you?
Matthew 3:16-17 [NASB]
After He was baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove [and] settling on Him, and behold, a voice from the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased."
"A voice" said "MY BELOVED SON" ... so either it was the voice of Jesus' FATHER or Jesus' MOTHER ... as those are the only two voices that can say "MY SON"!
Jesus was not the son of an angel. Jesus was not the son of any man living in heaven.
So which was it: Jesus' FATHER or MOTHER speaking from heaven?
The voice claimed that Jesus was THEIR son.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
THIS IS MY SON....... WHOSE SON WAS HE? I KNOW.... IT WAS EITHER MRS. GOD OR WISDOM.
DavidTree
Active Member
We can immediately rule out "Mrs. god"
FreeInChrist
Active Member
ANSWER MY QUESTION. "THIS IS MY SON....... WHOSE SON WAS HE?"
101G
Active Member
101G
Active Member
My God that's irrelevant as to what was said, but WHO said it. did you not read? the scripture states, "A VOICE" from heaven. did the verse say it was the Father's voice? no. you as well as many assumed it was the Father's voice. it's pitiful how Christians are so easily deceived. if the verse never say it was the Father's ... the don't add to it.
don't add or take away from the Word of God......
101G.
