Is believing/faith a work ?

brightfame52 said:
Any action you take prior to regeneration in the economy of salvation, believing, water baptism or whatever, repentance, its nothing but a work of the flesh, and rejected by God, its dead works from a person dead in sin.
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Not true according to Scripture. You have been tainted by Satan's "no works" doctrine. Works are absolutely essential to faith, and without faith it is impossible to receive salvation/regeneration/forgiveness.
 
Doug Brents said:
Not true according to Scripture.
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Yes it is, the flesh cant please God. Nothing good in the flesh Rom 7 18

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Any religious activity you do in the flesh, is unacceptable to God. And as long as we are unregenerate, we are in the flesh
 
Romans 9:14-24 [NLT]
Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not! For God said to Moses, "I will show mercy to anyone I choose, and I will show compassion to anyone I choose." ​
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So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it. ​
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For the Scriptures say that God told Pharaoh, "I have appointed you for the very purpose of displaying my power in you and to spread my fame throughout the earth." So you see, God chooses to show mercy to some, and he chooses to harden the hearts of others so they refuse to listen. ​
​
Well then, you might say, "Why does God blame people for not responding? Haven't they simply done what he makes them do?" ​
​
No, don't say that. Who are you, a mere human being, to argue with God? Should the thing that was created say to the one who created it, "Why have you made me like this?" When a potter makes jars out of clay, doesn't he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar for decoration and another to throw garbage into? In the same way, even though God has the right to show his anger and his power, he is very patient with those on whom his anger falls, who are destined for destruction. He does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory. And we are among those whom he selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles.​
 
brightfame52 said:
Yes it is, the flesh cant please God. Nothing good in the flesh Rom 7 18

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Any religious activity you do in the flesh, is unacceptable to God. And as long as we are unregenerate, we are in the flesh
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You focus on the first part of the verse. But the second corrects your thinking, and the full context of the passage puts the lie to your doctrine. The will to do good is present within a person. And through turning to God, we find the strength to perform that which is good.
 
Doug Brents said:
You focus on the first part of the verse. But the second corrects your thinking, and the full context of the passage puts the lie to your doctrine. The will to do good is present within a person. And through turning to God, we find the strength to perform that which is good.
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It collaborates Rom 8:8 they which be in the flesh cant please God, PERIOD
 
Doug Brents said:
Again, you are reading into that passage more than is there.
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Im reading out of it whats there. Rom 8:8 anything you do in the flesh in regards to making it right with God, its unacceptable and doesn't please Him. If you are water baptized as a unregenerate, it doesn't please God, its just a religious show in the flesh
 
A person believing is a gracious gift God gives, its a preternatural operation enacted by God on spiritually dead people. It's given to a person to believe on Christ Phil 1:29 since its something man cannot naturally do.
 
brightfame52 said:
Im reading out of it whats there. Rom 8:8 anything you do in the flesh in regards to making it right with God, its unacceptable and doesn't please Him. If you are water baptized as a unregenerate, it doesn't please God, its just a religious show in the flesh
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Now you are getting somewhere. Being baptized is not something you do to "make it right with God". It is a surrender of your will and accepting the Will of God. I know the parable is over your head, but try reading the parable of the unprofitable servant in Luke 17:7-10. Here, God tells us that there is no reward for doing what He commands. Doing what He commands is simply our duty. But, there are some things that He has commanded upon which He has promised gifts; like honoring father and mother. This command is the first with a promise (Eph 6:2-3). Another commandment (in the NT) that carries a promises is the command to be baptized (Acts 2:38). The promise attached to baptism is that sins will be forgiven and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit will be received.
 
brightfame52 said:
The answer is absolutely yes. If we agree with the overall definition of work according to the greek word for work ergon:

See strongs # 2041:

  1. business, employment, that which any one is occupied
    1. that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking
  2. any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
  3. an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

    A work is anything done, accomplished by #1 hand, #2 art, #3 industry, #4 or MIND

    The mind is :

    (in a human or other conscious being) the element, part, substance, or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.

    Psychology. the totality of conscious and unconscious mental processes and activities.

    So believing something via the mental activity and process of reasoning is work. The process of decision making is a activity, work of the mind.

    Now for instance, the sin of hatred Gal 5:19-20


    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

    How is that sin committed ? It starts in the mind or heart ! Yet in Vs 19 its stated as an work of the flesh

    So activity in and with the mind/heart is a work, this cannot be denied..

    Now believing is either a work of the flesh [unregenerate] or of the Spirit [ regenerated]

    But now Salvation is not by works, Neither by works of the flesh or works of the Spirit.
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Absolutely not. Salvation by grace through faith is at the heart of the Christian religion.

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast” Ephesians 2:8–9

The statement has three parts— salvation, grace, and faith—and they are equally important. The three together constitute a basic tenet of Christianity.
 
Diserner said:
Do you ever once in your life actually read the context or research something before you mouth off?

Both passages are in the context of salvation.

3 Unceasingly, remembering--your work of faith and labour of love and endurance of hope, of our Lord Jesus Christ, before our God and Father: [context: salvation]
4 Knowing, brethren beloved by God, your election,-- [context: salvation]
5 How that, our glad-message (Gospel), [context: salvation] came not unto you, in word only, but also in power, and in Holy Spirit, and in much assurance,--even as ye know what manner of men we became unto you, for your sake;
6 And, ye, became, imitators of us, and of the Lord, giving welcome unto the word, [context: salvation] in much tribulation, with joy of Holy Spirit;
7 So that ye became an example unto all who were coming to the faith, [context: salvation] in Macedonia and in Achaia:
8 From you, in fact, hath sounded forth the word of the Lord [context: salvation] --not only in Macedonia and in Achaia, but, in every place, your faith which is toward God, [context: salvation] hath gone forth, so that, no need, have we to be saying anything; (1 Thess. 1:3-8)

8 In a fiery flame; holding forth vengeance--against them that refuse to know God, and them who decline to hearken unto the glad-message of our Lord Jesus, [context: salvation]
9 Who, indeed, a penalty, shall pay--age-abiding (everlasting) destruction from the face of the Lord [context: salvation] and from the glory of his might--
10 Whensoever he shall come, to be made all-glorious in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who believed,--because our witness unto you was believed,--in that day. [context: salvation]
11 Unto which end, we are also praying continually for you, that our God may count, you, worthy of your calling, [context: salvation] and fulfill every good-pleasure of goodness and work of faith, with power,--
12 That the name of our Lord Jesus may be made all-glorious in you, and, ye, in him, According to the favour of our God and Lord Jesus Christ. [context: salvation] (2 Thess. 1:8-12)



Nothing there about salvation?!




Christ himself along with Paul also calls faith in a work in John 6.
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Amen, faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ is a work.
John teaching on new testament law not the law of Moses said,
1John 3:23-24,
- and this is Gods commandment that we should believe on the name of the Son Jesus Christ and love one another as He gave us commandment

All new testament commandments when obeyed are works of faith.

1Thessalonians 1:3,
- remembering without ceasing your work of faith...

These works Paul is talking about is works in the new testament gospel of Christ not works in the old testament law of Moses.
 
brightfame52 said:
Thats a work of the flesh and it cant please God, if its done before regeneration
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I know the parable is over your head, but try reading the parable of the unprofitable servant in Luke 17:7-10.

And as Scripture says, baptism is the point at which we receive salvation. It does not come after salvation is received (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).
 
Doug Brents said:
I know the parable is over your head, but try reading the parable of the unprofitable servant in Luke 17:7-10.

And as Scripture says, baptism is the point at which we receive salvation. It does not come after salvation is received (1 Pet 3:21, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).
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They which are in the flesh can't please God
 
Doug Brents said:
You keep spouting that as if it means something.
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It does mean something ... it means what it says (no more and no less): Until you are saved (while you are still in the flesh), you cannot (it is impossible to) please God. So YOUR "baptism" cannot please God [is not meritorious].

Per the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith:

Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, to be unto the party baptized, a sign of his fellowship with him, in his death and resurrection; of his being engrafted into him;1 of remission of sins;2 and of giving up into God, through Jesus Christ, to live and walk in newness of life.3

Those who do actually profess repentance towards God, faith in, and obedience to, our Lord Jesus Christ, are the only proper subjects of this ordinance.4

The outward element to be used in this ordinance is water, wherein the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.5

Immersion, or dipping of the person in water, is necessary to the due administration of this ordinance.6
 
atpollard said:
It does mean something ... it means what it says (no more and no less): Until you are saved (while you are still in the flesh), you cannot (it is impossible to) please God. So YOUR "baptism" cannot please God [is not meritorious].
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Never said it was. There is no merit to baptism that God MUST give us salvation because of it.
However, He has also said that if you are not baptized you cannot enter the Kingdom of God (John 3:5), that baptism is the point at which the Holy Spirit removes you sins (1 Pet 3:21), that baptism is the point at which we are clothed with Christ and adopted as His children (Gal 3:26-27), and many other passages.
 
atpollard said:
Until you are saved
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In reformed denominations like the Baptist sects. You cannot even know if you are saved based on the word, the gospel.
It is by emotion one believes they are saved not by anything written in the gospel.
Fact: calvinism teaches one is saved before belief in the gospel.
Calvinist's are not qualified to judge anyone on when and how the gospel saves as their doctrine does not believe in salvation through study of the written word but by an emotional experience that is found nowhere in the new testament.
 
1John 5:13,
- these things I have  written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life and you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God
 

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