I Will Build My Church

[jeremiah1five]

sorry but you are locked into the past
Christ's calling and commission shows otherwise
Matthew 28:18–20 (NASB 2020) — 18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to follow all that I commanded you; and behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

So, why don't you follow what Christ commanded? He commanded the Torah be obeyed but you don't obey Christ. And you seem to forget that a remnant returned to their land after Cyrus gave permission to return. A remnant is something like 10% of total. This means about 90% of all Hebrews alive at the time lived in Gentile lands far and wide. And Jesus knew this and sent His disciples to the twelve tribes scattered to herald to the that God has kept His Promise (Deut. 18:15, 18), and has sent One like unto Moses, a Great Deliverer. It was important for God to do this. And a majority of all Jews still live in Gentile lands. This is true today. But God said He will gather ALL HIS PEOPLE back into their land and this will be accomplished in preparation of the Millennium still yet future. Be patient. In the meantime, why don't you obey what Christ commanded and don't obey His Torah. He's the One who gave the Torah to Moses for the people to live under. Why do you disobey God's Torah and in your disobedience show hatred for Christ. Are you a Christian, or aren't you?

Galatians 1:11–16 (ESV) — 11 For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man’s gospel. 12 For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. 14 And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, 16 was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;

The apostles were commisioned by Christ to preach to the nations

That's where 90% of total Hebrews lived. God needed to let them know their Messiah had come and God had kept His Promise (Deut. 18:15, 18.) There's nothing wrong with that. James wrote to them:

1 JAMES, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James 1:1.

If all the Jews taken captive and exiled returned back to Israel there would be no need to send anyone to let them know Messiah had come. They would have all known this of God given that Jesus travelled throughout Israel and His fame spread through word of mouth.

Christ specifically called Paul to preach to the gentiles

Saul was called to reach out to the Jews who lived in Gentile lands. That's where the majority of Jews lived since only 10% returned to the Promise Land after Cyrus allowed them to return, but only a remnant left. The majority remained in Gentile lands like Assyria or Babylon and areas far and wide beyond the cardinal points of the compass. When God scattered His people, He really scattered them.

The calling of the jews was for the purpose of blessing all nations

The calling of the Jews was for their deliverance except they saw only a political and military deliverance, not a deliverance from sin and death.

Galatians 3:8 (ESV) — 8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.”

The descendants of Ishmael and Esau lived in the middle east. These were blessed of the Abrahamic blessings and Ishmaels' twelve sons multiplied exponentially. Kings were born from these twelve sons of Ishmael. There were also Abraham's brothers and their seed. Lot had a large family. As did Nahor. God thought of them. Why do you exclude them from God's blessings and existence? The descendants of Ishmael live among the Jews just as God prophesied. Why do you ignore them? They were not covenant but they were Abraham's seed and were blessed through Abraham. These are the "nations" of people that God said would "COME OUT OF THEE." Why doi you ignore Abraham's seed?

Galatians 3:14 (ESV) — 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Yes, the Holy Spirit of Promise was given to the non-Hebrew Gentiles which were Ishmael and Esau's descendants that received the blessings of Abraham NOT being in the covenant of Abraham because Scripture says the Promise went through to Isaac and then Jacob and then the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel.

1 John 4:14 (ESV) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

If you take "world" to be everyone then you teach universalism which is unbiblical. And if you take "world" to mean everybody who ever lived then there's something wrong with your Jesus because not everyone is saved. How can one be "Savior of the world" and not everyone in the world not saved?
Puny Jesus.
Hulk smash!

 

[TomL]

But God only follows what name He wrote in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. These are the souls that are predestined to salvation.

No one is unconditionally predestined for salvation

 

[TomL]

So, why don't you follow what Christ commanded? He commanded the Torah be obeyed but you don't obey Christ. And you seem to forget that a remnant returned to their land after Cyrus gave permission to return. A remnant is something like 10% of total. This means about 90% of all Hebrews alive at the time lived in Gentile lands far and wide. And Jesus knew this and sent His disciples to the twelve tribes scattered to herald to the that God has kept His Promise (Deut. 18:15, 18), and has sent One like unto Moses, a Great Deliverer. It was important for God to do this. And a majority of all Jews still live in Gentile lands. This is true today. But God said He will gather ALL HIS PEOPLE back into their land and this will be accomplished in preparation of the Millennium still yet future. Be patient. In the meantime, why don't you obey what Christ commanded and don't obey His Torah. He's the One who gave the Torah to Moses for the people to live under. Why do you disobey God's Torah and in your disobedience show hatred for Christ. Are you a Christian, or aren't you?

That's where 90% of total Hebrews lived. God needed to let them know their Messiah had come and God had kept His Promise (Deut. 18:15, 18.) There's nothing wrong with that. James wrote to them:

1 JAMES, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
James 1:1.

If all the Jews taken captive and exiled returned back to Israel there would be no need to send anyone to let them know Messiah had come. They would have all known this of God given that Jesus travelled throughout Israel and His fame spread through word of mouth.

Saul was called to reach out to the Jews who lived in Gentile lands. That's where the majority of Jews lived since only 10% returned to the Promise Land after Cyrus allowed them to return, but only a remnant left. The majority remained in Gentile lands like Assyria or Babylon and areas far and wide beyond the cardinal points of the compass. When God scattered His people, He really scattered them.

The calling of the Jews was for their deliverance except they saw only a political and military deliverance, not a deliverance from sin and death.

The descendants of Ishmael and Esau lived in the middle east. These were blessed of the Abrahamic blessings and Ishmaels' twelve sons multiplied exponentially. Kings were born from these twelve sons of Ishmael. There were also Abraham's brothers and their seed. Lot had a large family. As did Nahor. God thought of them. Why do you exclude them from God's blessings and existence? The descendants of Ishmael live among the Jews just as God prophesied. Why do you ignore them? They were not covenant but they were Abraham's seed and were blessed through Abraham. These are the "nations" of people that God said would "COME OUT OF THEE." Why doi you ignore Abraham's seed?

Yes, the Holy Spirit of Promise was given to the non-Hebrew Gentiles which were Ishmael and Esau's descendants that received the blessings of Abraham NOT being in the covenant of Abraham because Scripture says the Promise went through to Isaac and then Jacob and then the twelve sons of Jacob/Israel.

If you take "world" to be everyone then you teach universalism which is unbiblical. And if you take "world" to mean everybody who ever lived then there's something wrong with your Jesus because not everyone is saved. How can one be "Savior of the world" and not everyone in the world not saved?
Puny Jesus.
Hulk smash!

Sorry your claim is patently false

And you do not understand atonement

Atonement is a provisional measure.

It has to be appropriated to be effective

Christ died for all that all might have a way of salvation.

That way must be appropriated through faith

There was no failure, as it was never God attention to save anyone who would not believe.

As for your claim regarding the Holy Spirit all gentiles were not descendants of Ishmael or Esau

Finally as was noted previously the old covenant was set aside

There is a new better and better covenant built on better promises

So

Galatians 4:21–31 (ESV) — 21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. 23 But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. 24 Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written, “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor! For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband.” 28 Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. 30 But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” 31 So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

Why do you ignore this?

 

[synergy]

Egyptians didn't occupy Canaan. Other tribes did. Other non-Hebrew, Gentile tribes lived in Canaan. Joshua was sent to destroy them out of their land but didn't do what God commanded. A future Joshua will.

Egyptians do inhabit the land you claimed will be ethnically cleansed of all Gentiles. The Bible does not mention anything of Egyptians being ethnically cleansed so it's back to the drawing board for you.

 

[TomL]

Egyptians do inhabit the land you claimed will be ethnically cleansed of all Gentiles. The Bible does not mention anything of Egyptians being ethnically cleansed so it's back to the drawing board for you.

Does he really want to ethnically cleanse gentile christians from the land?

 

[synergy]

Does he really want to ethnically cleanse gentile christians from the land?

He is claiming that is what the Bible is saying will happen. It has something to do with a verse about Cannanites. Well, Cannanites are not Egyptians and neither are they Syrians, Jordanians, Iraqis, Saudis, etc... It's back to the drawing board for his clan.

 

[DavidTree]

But God only follows what name He wrote in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. These are the souls that are predestined to salvation.

Neither yourself, myself or anyone else knows whose names are written in the Book of Life.

Therefore, since God alone KNOWS, HE says: "Whosoever"

 

[TomL]

But God only follows what name He wrote in the book of life of the lamb slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. These are the souls that are predestined to salvation.

Its from not before. There is no unconditional predestination to salvation

 

[jeremiah1five]

No one is unconditionally predestined for salvation

BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man a lamb was slain. This sacrifice in eternity allowed God to create sinful matter and man. There is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE. Thus, whatever is created is imperfect and not eternal and this alone identifies matter and man as fallen short of God's glory. The word for that is "sin" which means "missing the mark." What is the "mark" missed? The glory or standard that is God.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev. 13:7–8.

Before God created anything He will to create man and before He did write down names in a 'book' of life of the Lamb. This is not an actual book but is a figurative literary device representing the Lamb of God just as the Tree of Life is symbolism of Christ. God is not waiting around waiting to see who will "accept" His Son for He knows NO ONE will accept His Son for they are in bondage to sin and have only ONE master: death.
God is actively in the world today calling out a people to Himself from the mass of humanity past, present, and future.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Jn 17:6.

Read John 17. Notice two groups of people. Those identified as "they" and "them" and the other group identified as the "world." Notice who receives the prayers of God's Son and who doesn't. But first learn that in the Hebrew covenant that the high priest does two things. His function is to pray for the people of God and offer sacrifices for the people of God. Also know that Christ as High Priest does two things, that is, He prays for the people of God and offers sacrifices (Himself) for the people of God. In the Mosaic Covenant the high priest after praying and offering sacrifices for the people of God did not leave Jewish territory and go to Gentiles and pray or offer sacrifices for them. Why? Because Gentiles are NOT in covenant with God.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Jn 17:8–9.

There are two groups of people in the world:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen. 3:14–15.

The seed of the woman.
The seed of the serpent.

Make distinction.
You have much to learn.

 

[TomL]

BEFORE God created heaven, earth, and man a lamb was slain. This sacrifice in eternity allowed God to create sinful matter and man. There is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE. Thus, whatever is created is imperfect and not eternal and this alone identifies matter and man as fallen short of God's glory. The word for that is "sin" which means "missing the mark." What is the "mark" missed? The glory or standard that is God.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev. 13:7–8.

Before God created anything He will to create man and before He did write down names in a 'book' of life of the Lamb. This is not an actual book but is a figurative literary device representing the Lamb of God just as the Tree of Life is symbolism of Christ. God is not waiting around waiting to see who will "accept" His Son for He knows NO ONE will accept His Son for they are in bondage to sin and have only ONE master: death.
God is actively in the world today calling out a people to Himself from the mass of humanity past, present, and future.

6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Jn 17:6.

Read John 17. Notice two groups of people. Those identified as "they" and "them" and the other group identified as the "world." Notice who receives the prayers of God's Son and who doesn't. But first learn that in the Hebrew covenant that the high priest does two things. His function is to pray for the people of God and offer sacrifices for the people of God. Also know that Christ as High Priest does two things, that is, He prays for the people of God and offers sacrifices (Himself) for the people of God. In the Mosaic Covenant the high priest after praying and offering sacrifices for the people of God did not leave Jewish territory and go to Gentiles and pray or offer sacrifices for them. Why? Because Gentiles are NOT in covenant with God.

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Jn 17:8–9.

There are two groups of people in the world:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen. 3:14–15.

The seed of the woman.
The seed of the serpent.

Make distinction.
You have much to learn.

Nothing there stated anything about unconditional predestination.


Did you think it would go unnoticed as a result of much verbiage

 

[jeremiah1five]

Egyptians do inhabit the land you claimed will be ethnically cleansed of all Gentiles. The Bible does not mention anything of Egyptians being ethnically cleansed so it's back to the drawing board for you.

There were no Egyptians in Canaan when Joshua was sent to ethnically cleanse the land in obedience to God.
God commanded Joshua to destroy everyone in Canaan, every man, woman, child, toddler, infant, and baby in a womb along with the animals and everything else.

 

[TomL]

There were no Egyptians in Canaan when Joshua was sent to ethnically cleanse the land in obedience to God.
God commanded Joshua to destroy everyone in Canaan, every man, woman, child, toddler, infant, and baby in a womb along with the animals and everything else.

And that is what you want today?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Neither yourself, myself or anyone else knows whose names are written in the Book of Life.

Therefore, since God alone KNOWS, HE says: "Whosoever"

He doesn't say "whosoever" to mean "anyone," He says "whosoever" in context to the Hebrews He is speaking to.
"Whosoever of you Hebrews/Jews" is the correct rendering from Greek to English.
And I KNOW WHO'S name is written in the Lamb's book of Life.
Mine.
And a couple of other brethren I know.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Its from not before. There is no unconditional predestination to salvation

Then you don't know your bible.
There are too many passages of Scripture that address God's Elect. And those He's elected to salvation will come to Him at the appointed time. This includes ALL the Hebrews in covenant with Him.

Let me take you on a little journey.

God made covenant with a man from the family of Eber named Abram. He even identified Abram as from Eber in Genesis 14:13. This is God making distinction in ethnicity as opposed to the rest of the Adamites He didn't choose for covenant. Follow the genealogy from Adam to Seth to Noah to Shem to Salah to Eber to Abram to Isaac, and Jacob to Jacob's twelve sons all the way to Jesus.

The Abrahamic Covenant was made around 2091 B.C. This included land and blessings of protection, prosperity, health, and other blessings from God. There is no faith required in this covenant. But God did command circumcision of Abraham, his servants, his visitors, and although circumcision was applied to the stranger or sojourner at the time, the covenant itself is with Abraham and his seed.

In the 1400s B.C. God made covenant with the children of Israel after He delivered them out of Egyptian bondage. In this covenant God instructed a yearly sacrifice of animals to atone for the peoples' sins. This also meant that the Gentiles (non-Hebrew) were not atoned and ever since the Mosaic Covenant with the children of Israel millions of Gentiles were unatoned and died in their sins.

Israel's Messiah arrived who was prophesied to die for Israel's sins as the Lamb of God who took away the sins of His covenant people. Gentiles of the day did not have their sins atoned as all that took place with regard to Jesus was in accordance with the Mosaic Covenant which God had with the children of Israel. Animals were sacrificed for the Hebrew people and Jesus was sacrificed for the Hebrew people. It all has to do with God's covenant with the Hebrew people. Everyone else that was not a descendant of Abram the Hebrew and Sarai the Hebrew were unatoned and died in their sins and destined for eternal separation from God.

At the Passover meal there was Jesus and His twelve disciples. Jesus uses this meal to declare a new covenant, one based upon His blood-life and one that has the Hebrew people as beneficiaries of this new covenant.
On the day of the Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) the Holy Spirit arrived and spiritually converted 3000 Hebrews/Jews that day. They all experienced being born again from above as the Scripture teaches. Scripture also says that this was the Church Christ promised to build and He began building His Church and populated it with Hebrews/Jews as they were the ones that had covenant with God. Thousands and thousands of Hebrews/Jews were saved and born again by the Holy Spirit of Promise as per the covenant God made with Abraham and his seed. And for the next four decades God delivered millions of Hebrews/Jews and His Church was built upon Himself with the Hebrews/Jews populating His Church as He promised and as prophesied.
This meant that from Abraham to the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70 Hebrews/Jews were being added to Christ who is Israel's Deliverer, Israel's Messiah, Israel's Savior, Israel's High Priest, Israel's King, Israel's Apostle, Israel's Shepherd, Israel's Judge, Israel's husband. And this covenant is forever.
ALL Israel shall be saved for they are in covenant with God and God is prophesied to save them all.
Praise God!

 

[TomL]

Then you don't know your bible.
There are too many passages of Scripture that address God's Elect. And those He's elected to salvation will come to Him at the appointed time. This includes ALL the Hebrews in covenant with Him.

Let me take you on a little journey.

God made covenant with a man from the family of Eber named Abram. He even identified Abram as from Eber in Genesis 14:13. This is God making distinction in ethnicity as opposed to the rest of the Adamites He didn't choose for covenant. Follow the genealogy from Adam to Seth to Noah to Shem to Salah to Eber to Abram to Isaac, and Jacob to Jacob's twelve sons all the way to Jesus.

The Abrahamic Covenant was made around 2091 B.C. This included land and blessings of protection, prosperity, health, and other blessings from God. There is no faith required in this covenant. But God did command circumcision of Abraham, his servants, his visitors, and although circumcision was applied to the stranger or sojourner at the time, the covenant itself is with Abraham and his seed.

In the 1400s B.C. God made covenant with the children of Israel after He delivered them out of Egyptian bondage. In this covenant God instructed a yearly sacrifice of animals to atone for the peoples' sins. This also meant that the Gentiles (non-Hebrew) were not atoned and ever since the Mosaic Covenant with the children of Israel millions of Gentiles were unatoned and died in their sins.

Israel's Messiah arrived who was prophesied to die for Israel's sins as the Lamb of God who took away the sins of His covenant people. Gentiles of the day did not have their sins atoned as all that took place with regard to Jesus was in accordance with the Mosaic Covenant which God had with the children of Israel. Animals were sacrificed for the Hebrew people and Jesus was sacrificed for the Hebrew people. It all has to do with God's covenant with the Hebrew people. Everyone else that was not a descendant of Abram the Hebrew and Sarai the Hebrew were unatoned and died in their sins and destined for eternal separation from God.

At the Passover meal there was Jesus and His twelve disciples. Jesus uses this meal to declare a new covenant, one based upon His blood-life and one that has the Hebrew people as beneficiaries of this new covenant.
On the day of the Feast of Harvest (Pentecost) the Holy Spirit arrived and spiritually converted 3000 Hebrews/Jews that day. They all experienced being born again from above as the Scripture teaches. Scripture also says that this was the Church Christ promised to build and He began building His Church and populated it with Hebrews/Jews as they were the ones that had covenant with God. Thousands and thousands of Hebrews/Jews were saved and born again by the Holy Spirit of Promise as per the covenant God made with Abraham and his seed. And for the next four decades God delivered millions of Hebrews/Jews and His Church was built upon Himself with the Hebrews/Jews populating His Church as He promised and as prophesied.
This meant that from Abraham to the destruction of the Temple in A.D. 70 Hebrews/Jews were being added to Christ who is Israel's Deliverer, Israel's Messiah, Israel's Savior, Israel's High Priest, Israel's King, Israel's Apostle, Israel's Shepherd, Israel's Judge, Israel's husband. And this covenant is forever.
ALL Israel shall be saved for they are in covenant with God and God is prophesied to save them all.
Praise God!

So why have you not posted one which speaks of unconditional election to salvation

I will be waiting

 

[synergy]

There were no Egyptians in Canaan when Joshua was sent to ethnically cleanse the land in obedience to God.
God commanded Joshua to destroy everyone in Canaan, every man, woman, child, toddler, infant, and baby in a womb along with the animals and everything else.

Again, Egyptians do inhabit part of the land you claimed will be ethnically cleansed of all Gentiles. Are you now going to redraw that map to account for the fact that only Cannanites are mentioned in those verses? It's back to the drawing board for you.

 

[synergy]

So why have you not posted one which speaks of unconditional election to salvation

I will be waiting

Those verses are found only in the Elect Standard Version Bible.

 

[TomL]

Those verses are found only in the Elect Standard Version Bible.

The good old ESV

I heard that one too, but it is the elect superior version

 

[jeremiah1five]

So why have you not posted one which speaks of unconditional election to salvation

I will be waiting

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom. 8:28–39.

And I ask you:

34 Who is he that condemneth? Rom. 8:34.

In all the above the mover is God. I have done nothing. I am saved merely on the good pleasure of His will.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: Eph 1:3–9.

Again, all these things above the mover is God. I have done nothing.
Before God created the foundation (creation) of the world He chose me.
I have done nothing.

 

[TomL]

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Rom. 8:28–39.

It begins with a promise to those who love God. That is a condition right there

you wasted your time

These are men in the past known by God

Many have reduced the interpretive options of the term ‘foreknew’ in Roman 8:29 to either the classical Arminian concept of “foreseen” or the Calvinistic concept of “foreordained.”

Foreseen = God saw through the corridors of time who would believe and chose those individuals based on their “foreseen faith.” (Classical Arminian)

Foreordain = God set his love on certain unconditionally pre-selected individuals before the world began (“foreloved”) and effectually works to change their hearts so that they want to come to Him for salvation. (Calvinist)

But there is a third and much simpler option that is often overlooked in some modern theological circles :

Formerly Known (known before) = As in Romans 11:2, Paul is simply referring to saints of old in former times who loved God and were known by Him. Paul said, “The man who loves God is known by God” (1 Cor. 8:3). And men like Elijah and those who refused to bow a knee to false gods did love God and thus were known by him in the past. They were foreknown (previously known) by God, as in they had an intimate personal relationship with God in the past. There is no reason to add all the esoteric theological baggage of God looking through corridors of time or making arbitrary “sovereign” choices about who He will and will not love before the world began.

In his work, The Only Wise God: The Compatibility of Divine Foreknowledge and Human Freedom, Dr. William Lane Craig references the word study of Drs. Rodger T. Forster and V. Paul Marston, God’s Strategy in Human History (with a recommendation by the notable F.F. Bruce). They argue:

“God ‘foreknew them’ or ‘knew them of old‘ thus it does not mean that God entered in some former time into a relationship with the Israelites of today, it, means that he entered a (two-way) relationship with the Israel that existed in early Old Testament times, and he regards the present Israelites as integral with it. From the potters promise

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It should be noticed that all this foreknowing, foreordaining, calling, justifying and glorifying is in the past tense Greek aorist and has no reference whatever to the future. The apostle speaks of every act as something already accomplished and makes no reference whatever to the fact that what was done was in the counsels of God before the world was. Every Greek scholar knows that the aorist tense expresses an action as completed in past time but leaves it in other respects wholly indeterminate. Hence the exact particular time referred to in the present case must be determined by other considerations than the force of the aorist tense. The only thing that the aorist fixes with absolute certainty is that there is not even a hint in the passage that refers to the future except so far as the lesson of the past is an assurance with respect to the future. What then is the true meaning of foreknow (or proegnoo) as it is in the Greek. The Greek is from proginosko and this word is found only five times in the New Testament while the noun prognosis is found only twice… .

There are only two references to proginosko in Romans. One in the passage we have under consideration and one in chapter 11 verse 2. In the latter passage the meaning is perfectly clear if we substitute foreacknowledge or foreapproved and this harmonizes exactly with the meaning we have given to the word in Romans 8:29. Our conclusion therefore is that in the latter passage as well as in the former the apostle is referring to a long line of worthy saints whom God, under former dispensations, had acknowledged or approved, and having approved them, He marked them out, called them, justified them and made them glorious.

Some of these old heroes are mentioned in the eleventh chapter of Hebrews who through faith were able to triumph over all opposing influences because God was with them and sustained them in all their trials. To sum up the whole case, this foreknowledge of God is simply his acknowledgment of real historic characters whose faithfulness in the past is referred to as proof that even now all who love God will secure his help and final victory provided they continue in the grace which God has so abundantly provided. This view at once lifts the passage entirely out of the region of theological controversy and makes it one of the most practical and comforting Scriptures to be found in the Bible. In the ascending scale of the apostle’s great argument this reference to God’s faithfulness toward his ancient saints is placed next to the climax and is therefore evidently regarded by the apostle as a strong reason why the saints should in all succeeding generations have confidence in God’s providential care however great the trials may be to which they are exposed. For if God did not forsake the saints of the patriarchal and Jewish dispensations or those whom He acknowledged under those dispensations neither will he forsake those whom He acknowledges or approves under the Christian dispensation and if He is for us who can be against us. Surely we shall come off more than conquerors through Him who has loved us and given Himself for us. <link>

Christian Quarterly

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