How to get out of : Romans 7

[Bob Carabbio]

So are you inherently pure and righteous in the core of your being?

A righteously good person who happened to choose bad things?

Adam was - up until he SINNED. Just like us.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

So are you inherently pure and righteous in the core of your being?

A righteously good person who happened to choose bad things?

Nope - I'm just a HUMAN BEING, with a HUMAN NATURE, just like Adam, and you.

 

[Diserner]

Nope - I'm just a HUMAN BEING, with a HUMAN NATURE, just like Adam, and you.

Well, the Bible says no good things dwells in your flesh.

So Christ alone is the good thing.

Let's forsake our self-righteousness for the gift of grace.

 

[TibiasDad]

Romans 7:7–25 unpacks verse 5, and Romans 8:1–17 unpacks verse 6. In verses 7–25 we see how sin via the law brings death to those in the flesh, and in Romans 8:1–17 we see how the Spirit grants life to those who belong to Jesus Christ. Romans 7:5–6 forecasts what Paul is about to say in remarkably clear terms. The Holy Spirit is never mentioned in Romans 7:7–25. But Paul refers to the Spirit 15 times in Romans 8:1–17, suggesting that the person described in Romans 7:7–25 is one who doesn’t have the Spirit in his life. The essence of what it means to be a Christian is to be indwelt with the Spirit (Rom. 8:9). We see in both Romans 7:14 and 7:18 that the one described is of the “flesh,” one who is still in the old Adam, one who is unregenerate.

The total defeat described in Romans 7 contradicts how Paul describes Christian experience in Romans 6 and 8. Paul proclaims in Romans 6 that we’re no longer slaves to sin (6:6), that we’re free from the sin that enslaved us when we were unbelievers (Rom. 6:16–19).

Romans 7- Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.
4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. 6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
7 What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. 9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

A number of objections surface against what I’ve said. Let’s look at two of them briefly. First, how does a reference to unbelievers fit with Romans 7:23 (“For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being”)? Doesn’t such delight and longing for God’s law show that a believer is in view? Not necessarily. Many pious Jews loved God’s law and yet didn’t know God. Paul himself testifies that the Jews have a “zeal for God,” though they lacked knowledge (Rom. 10:2). There can be zeal and delight in the law (witness the Pharisees) when one isn’t truly saved.
Second, Paul shifts from past-tense verbs in Romans 7:7–11 to present-tense verbs in verses 14–25. Doesn’t that prove Christians are in view? Not necessarily. Scholars recognize that present tense doesn’t necessarily designate present time. The temporal nature of an action must be discerned from context, since present-tense verbs, even in the indicative, may be used with reference to the past or even the future.

The tense of the verb doesn’t emphasize time in Romans 7:7–25. Rather, the use of the present tense here fits with the state or condition of the person. Paul is emphasizing one’s captivity, subjugation, and impotence under the law. His use of the present tense doesn’t denote past time but highlights in a vivid way the slavery of life under the law.

If I’m right in the way I interpret this passage, the difference between me and those who see this as Christian experience isn’t great. After all, we both agree that believers fall short in numerous ways and that we struggle daily with sin. The reason we differ is that I see Romans 7:13–25 as describing total defeat, and that isn’t our story as Christians since the Holy Spirit also empowers us to live in a new way. Thomas Schreiner

hope this helps !!!

Amen! Mr. Schreiner. This has long been my argument!

Doug

 

[civic]

Amen! Mr. Schreiner. This has long been my argument!

Doug

Yes he nailed it In Romans 7

 

[Rockson]

There is a type of carnal believer who would teach that the only difference between an unbeliever's behavior, and a Christian's walk, is that the Christian feels guilty and condemned about still doing what they were doing as an unbeliever, and the unbeliever, enjoys it.

And that of course is wrong. If God said which he did that sin shall no longer have Dominion over you then that's what it means. Guaranteed perfection???....Nope....he said IF....IF....we do sin we have an advocate with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous 1 John 2:1

So, we reject the : "well, we are all going to fall, and so, expect it", = carnal minded, Cross rejecting, Devil's theology.

Let's put it this way....we should have more faith in our capacity in Christ to walk free from sin then our faith that we will fail. If we don't do this we're putting Satan's work in causing us to sin greater than Christs work in causing us to be victorious. So let's give this analogy. At what point does it all cave in? At what point must it cave in? If I asked do one believe they can go 5 minutes without sinning....that is walking in the Spirit?

Probably many would say YES. If I asked could one be walking above sin for say 15 minutes....some would say perhaps yes. So how about 30 minutes....an hour....two hours....three? How about 24 hours? At what point does one cave in and say it's not possible. All we know is what they Bible says.....If we do sin.....not that we have to at any one time but if we do.

If a pro ball player goes to the batting box is he saying he has to strike out? No. What's his mentality? It's this....I'm going to get a home run or get on base. Is it possible he could strike out? Yes but you DON'T MAKE THAT YOUR VISION.

So I think with Christians in the Christian life. If you're all caught up in I just have to fail, I'm a loser after all.....well you're going to be more prone to actually strike out.....and so with sin. You must embrace a vision within yourself that Jesus IS in you and he causes you to triumph and you can do all things through Christ which strengthens you. You say that, you declare that and you decree that and you don't back down from it! Will we always maintain that....we'd hope so and we seek to but realistically probably not. But you don't put your focus on defeat.....you put it on Christ and your victory.

 

[Behold]

And that of course is wrong. If God said which he did that sin shall no longer have Dominion over you

Notice what Paul teaches as real discipleship... vs the false, fake, carnal, teaching you find being taught.

Here is what Paul teaches...

"Christ always gives me the Victory"
"i can do all things through Christ.

And here is something for you to consider., Reader.

The Apostle Paul wrote most of the NT Epistles, because Jesus chose Him to be the "Apostle to the gentiles" in the Time of the Gentiles.
We are in it.

You can read all 13 of Paul's epistles, and not once did he "confess sin", or ever tell a believer to "confess sin".

You can even read the account in Corinthians, regarding the boy and the stepmother, who are fornicating, and Paul find outs, and he never tells anyone to confess the sin.

See, Christians are forgiven, and our sin is found here...

= "God hath made Jesus to be sin for us".... as "The one time ETERNAL sacrifice for Sin".

Jesus took our sin, and the born have received God's Righteousness, as a Gift. And this is to become "a new Creation in Christ". "Made righteous".
That's an eternal situation, that is a part of Eternal Life.

Now, @Rockson .... Heretics will teach you that you "sin, confess, and repeat" as your "christianity", so, just make sure to note who they are on a "forum"...., and avoid them, as they are "subverted inside/within themselves", Paul Teaches, in Titus 3.

Let's put it this way....we should have more faith in our capacity in Christ to walk free from sin

In Christ we are made free from sin.
All the born again are "in Christ".. There is no sin found "in Christ".
So, the walk of faith, is to understand who we have become as a "new creation" "In Christ" and exit there in our faith.
And by doing this, vs, striving to try to be some idea you have, regarding, "trying to imitate Christ'... "Christ clone".....you'll find that God's Grace is the empowerment to live in "Victory" over the world, the flesh, and the Devil.

 

[Rockson]

You can read all 13 of Paul's epistles, and not once did he "confess sin", or ever tell a believer to "confess sin".

Well I don't believe an unsaved person has to confess their "sins" they need rather to receive and confess the Lordship of Christ over their lives. (see Romans 10:10) God then remits their past sins. One could never ever as an unsaved person confess or even know all their past sins BUT now once a believer and born again if you know you've committed sin the Bible does say we need to confess our sins and ask the Lord for cleansing and forgiveness. (see scripture below)

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness 1 John 1: 9

So if you don't believe in confessing sin in any way how do you respond to the above verse?

 

[Behold]

Well I don't believe an unsaved person has to confess their "sins"

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness 1 John 1: 9

Your verse, is not for the born again, tho its world-widely taught as doctrine for the Church.

The verse in 1 John that is FOR the born again is : 1 John 3:9

Also, there is no need for the unbeliever to confess sin.....as God is not going to do anything about their sin, until they repent of their unbelief.

Its the sin of unbelief that damns you......

John 3:36

So, God is not interested in hearing about anyone's sins...
He's really not.

What He wants from the Unbeliever is for them to repent from their unbelief,= as that is turning to FAITH in Christ, and That is what God recognizes. and esteems as..

"FAITH is counted (by God, as Christ's) righteousness."

Now let me show you one of the ways to spot a heretic.
A heretic will tell you, that "Christianity" is "sin, confess, and repeat"...
And Reader, that is NOT CHRISTianity.
That is self righteousness committing carnality, and then telling God about it, so that this person's GUILT TRIP is relieved.... until they do it again.

"sin.....confess.....repeat"....


Christianity is "Christ in you, the Hope of Glory", giving you,= spiritual power to exist above the lust of the eye and the lust of the world.

 

[Rockson]

Your verse, is not for the born again, tho its world-widely taught as doctrine for the Church.

The verse in 1 John that is FOR the born again is : 1 John 3:9

Didn't you type this down wrong? Didn't you mean, "Your verse is not for the unborn again ????? For you then said 1 Jn 3:9 is for the born again.

Also, there is no need for the unbeliever to confess sin.....as God is not going to do anything about their sin, until they repent of their unbelief.

Its the sin of unbelief that damns you......

Well until they hear the gospel they haven't sinned the sin of unbelief.

John 3:36

So, God is not interested in hearing about anyone's sins...
He's really not.

Now were talking in context about an unbeliever right? If so I agree. But if someone prays to receive the Lord, forgive my sins God certainly isn't upset about it. The main thing he's looking for is an acknowledgement of what Jesus did on the cross and for the person to receive the Lordship of Christ. They then are translated from the Kingdom of Darkness to the Kingdom of Light.

Now let me show you one of the ways to spot a heretic.
A heretic will tell you, that "Christianity" is "sin, confess, and repeat"...

Would I term that being a heretic? I'd say that's a little too strong of a term. I would say it's a lack on insight about what really took place on the cross with our old man dying on the cross with Jesus and being buried in the waters of baptism. One should never have a mentality that they're going to repeat over and over the same sins with no hope of gaining victory over it.

That is self righteousness committing carnality, and then telling God about it, so that this person's GUILT TRIP is relieved.... until they do it again.

I wouldn't say they're being self righteous they're doing the only thing they may know to do. They need teaching from God's word.

"sin.....confess.....repeat"....

Christianity is "Christ in you, the Hope of Glory", giving you,= spiritual power to exist above the lust of the eye and the lust of the world.

Yes but you can know ever that from the mind but if your fellowship with the Lord isn't strong through daily prayer and worship....one isn't really walking in the manifested presence of God in their life. To rise above sin one needs their fellowship with the Lord strong to actually have in real terms the glory and power flowing through one.

This is the thing I believe God told me years ago. (and I'm not claiming God actually did this but I sense he told me this) And that is many of my people feel guilt because they've sinned. They feel bad about it and want me to forgive them, and I will. But the thing they think they need forgiveness for is their actual sinful act and I will forgive them that BUT....their real sins is this.....Not being built up in me in the Spirit through prayer and worship where my overcoming power is flowing through them.

So when they face temptation they fall." This is what the Lords prayer meant.....lead us not into temptation really meaning when you're built up strong in the Spirit the temptation to do whatever wrong will fall roll off you like water off a duck's back, you will feel you're empowered above it. Scripture says Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Isn't not stop fulfilling the lusts of the flesh and then walk in the Spirit.

It's actually the other way around. I wish people would get this and teach it far and wide to God's people. It would set them at least on the right place whereby the person has a hope of overcoming sin. Do we always walk in the Spirit? No. But at least one knows what they need to develop and what they need to do.

 

[Behold]

Didn't you type this down wrong? Didn't you mean, "Your verse is not for the unborn again ?????

God is faithful and just to forgive our sin.

1.) Unbelievers are not saved by confessing sin.. They are saved by giving God their Faith... that He accepts. to then save them with the Blood Atonement.

So, here is how to understand your verse, ...

Lets say, im preaching to a room full of Mary Baker Eddy disciples, or "Gnostics"... or "Scientologists"...
In all cases, these people do not believe in sin, or original sin.

So, as im "preaching the Cross" to these deceived people......... they start yelling...>"there is no sin" !!... "we are scientologists".. "we are Gnostics"... "Mary Baker Eddy taught us that there is no SIN">.!!!!!

And i say to ALL these unbelievers...>"Listen, if we say we have no sin, then we deceive ourselves"...

See it @Rockson

A person has to recognize that you have sin, before you can come to Christ for the Forgiveness of them, all.

So, if you dont believe you have sin, then you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you.... 1 John 1:9 says..

That's not the born again.

For you then said 1 Jn 3:9 is for the born again.

Yes, it is.
We have no sin.
Jesus has it, all.

See, we can't be "In Christ" and 'one with God'... "seated in heavenly places", and still have sin.

A.) "God hath made JESUS...to be sin for us"... = to become our sin on the Cross and die for it all.

AA.) = "Jesus is the ONE TIME.... ETERNAL Sacrifice for sins"..

Well until they hear the gospel they haven't sinned the sin of unbelief.

They have no excuse to not believe in God, as God has shown them Himself by the Creation.

Romans 1:20

""For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without EXCUSE""".

Now were talking in context about an unbeliever right? If so I agree. But if someone prays to receive the Lord, forgive my sins God certainly isn't upset about it.

He's not interested in hearing about sin.

See, "without faith its impossible to please God"..

"Faith" is not related to confessing sin., so, confessing sin is not going to please God.

What pleases God is faith, and these 2 things......

1.) Availability

2.) Dependability

Be those 2, and BELIEVE GOD, and you are pleasing Him all the time, even when you are not always perfect.

Would I term that being a heretic? I'd say that's a little too strong of a term.

Here is something to believe about "Theology"

If its not 100% truth, then its 100% wrong.

If your theology is wrong, then your faith will be the same, and broken faith, ...= teaches all others how to not understand God's ways, or the NT.

A.) That's a heretic.

This one can be a born again Christian. They are "fallen from Grace" and are become a Dark Light,.

I have a Teaching on that, and i will try to post it, later.

A Dark light is a person who's inner truth, is anti-Cross, regarding..... teaching about Biblical Spiritual Enlightenment and Salvation.

Jesus = Luke 11:35...... can be a believer with broken faith and spiritual deception as their inner light, and they TEACH this on FORUMS and IN Pulpits.

And that wrong inner light, creates 200 denominations in the USA, and 45,000 denominations in the world, all claiming to be 'the real one".

To rise above sin one needs

To rise above sin is not to try to deal with sin by willpower.
Its to understand who you have become as a "new Creation in Christ", understanding that your "Old man of sin" is "Crucified with Christ" and the life you now live you live "in Christ", "made righteous".. forever.

Listen reader. When you gave God your Faith in Christ.. = God gave you "the gift of Righteousness" and Jesus became you LIFETIME SIN Blood Atonement.

See, Christianity is ONLY Spiritual, and that is why teaching spirituality is impossible to understand using your LOGIC or analytical thought process.
It has to be revealed to you, by the Holy Spirit, in your inner man.. as "the spiritual eyes of your understanding being opened".
And that has to be engaged by a mind that has that revelation....
The bible is the word of God and im teaching spirituality, not self effort, and you have to do this with it... "spiritually Discerned".
See....
Most are trying to "DO" Christianity, instead of BEING a Christian, by God's Grace, already and forever.

 

[Complete]

'... ... ... If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness,
how great is that darkness!'
(Mat 6:23)

 

[Complete]

'Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more;
death hath no more dominion over Him.
For in that He died, He died unto sin once:
but in that He liveth, He liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,
but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body,
that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God,
as those that are alive from the dead,
and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.'
(Rom 6:9-14)

 

[Rockson]

God is faithful and just to forgive our sin.

1.) Unbelievers are not saved by confessing sin.. They are saved by giving God their Faith... that He accepts. to then save them with the Blood Atonement.

Sure. Faith in what Jesus said he did on the cross. One is also to know that their old man died on the cross with Jesus and their Spirit has arisen a new man in Christ Jesus. That's the thing that made one a new creation. The blood deals with the sin problem as it remits the sins of the former self and blots them out.

See, we can't be "In Christ" and 'one with God'... "seated in heavenly places", and still have sin.

Well I think you can still have sin if you fall into it but Jesus will deal with it when you come to him in repentance and receive forgiveness and cleaning. 1 John 1:9

They have no excuse to not believe in God, as God has shown them Himself by the Creation.

Romans 1:20

Yes of course but that's not the sin of rejecting Jesus because of unbelief. One can still believe God exists in creation but never have heard the gospel about Jesus yet. God takes them to the next stop of hearing the good news.

Here is something to believe about "Theology"

If its not 100% truth, then its 100% wrong.

I'm not sure what you mean by a statement like that. Are you saying that if one isn't 100% right about everything then they're all together wrong where God doesn't accept them? I could never believe something like that. Perhaps you could clarify your meaning.

And that wrong inner light, creates 200 denominations in the USA, and 45,000 denominations in the world, all claiming to be 'the real one".

So I'm still not sure what you're meaning by this? Are you saying you're the real one and everything you say about everything is right? That would be quite the presumptuous thing to say wouldn't you think?

To rise above sin is not to try to deal with sin by willpower.
Its to understand who you have become as a "new Creation in Christ", understanding that your "Old man of sin" is "Crucified with Christ" and the life you now live you live "in Christ", "made righteous".. forever.

Listen reader. When you gave God your Faith in Christ.. = God gave you "the gift of Righteousness" and Jesus became you LIFETIME SIN Blood Atonement.

Agreed but lets not take a statement of willpower all out of context. When you as you put it gave God your faith in Christ that took an act of you will to do so.

 

[Behold]

For sin shall not have dominion over you:
for ye are not under the law, but under grace.'
(Rom 6:9-14)

Notice that Paul is explaining that sin has no more power, because "the power of sin is the LAW", and once the Law's Dominion is removed, then the power of sin, is cut off.

= :"not under the law"..,. but 'under Grace"..

"Christ is the end of the Law, for Righteousness, to/for everyone who believes"...

"Christ has redeemed the born again from the curse of the Law"......

That is the effect of living in God's GRACE, as your understanding of what it means to be "born again", as a '""'new creation in Christ'.

See, this new birth in the Spirit, has happened, but the mind of the person, has to come to the revelation of what it means to have been..

A.) Born again.

"having been Translated FROM Darkness..... .. TO Light".

This "Light" is to have become "ONE with God", Spiritually, as God "exists in LIGHT">

Jesus is the "LIGHT of the World".

The Born again, are "Children of THE Light".

see that reader?

Get that revelation, as that is who you have become, if you are truly born again, and not just water baptized and religious.