Gentiles

[praise_yeshua]

It is difficult to actually get Judaism to actually define the word "Jew". Ask several "Jews" and you will get several different answers.

I think we can all agree what is different can not be the same. As such, we can not ignore the flimsy and contradictory evidence provided.

However, what about Gentile?

If I ask "Jews" what a "Gentile" is..... I bet the same thing would happen. So. I'll ask that very question here.

Calling all self proclaimed "Jews", define Gentile for us.

Before you do, please review some facts from the Scriptures.

1. The word Gentile was never used during the life of Abraham.
2. The word Gentile was never used during the life of Isaac.
3. The word Gentile was never used during the life of Jacob.
4. The word Gentile was never used during the lives of the 12 Patriarchs nor the lives of the 12 princes of Ishmael. Nor in the lives of the six sons of Keturah.
5. The Greek word for Gentile isn't "nations" in the context of the lives of the very people that would become Israel. As such, the very concept is foreign to very people to whom God spoke.
6. Tamar and Ruth both are part of the very lineage of Jesus Christ. Tamar is said to have "played the harlot" in the book of Genesis and Ruth was Moabite descendent that was deny entry to the commonwealth of Israel.
7. Moses married a black women of Cush. A very beautiful women.
8. The descendents of Patriarchs endlessly married among the inhabitants of Canaan.
9. The descendents of Patriarchs still continued marrying outside of their own lineages. Even to this very day.
10. Jewrusalem was NOT built by Jews. It was conquered and lost again over and over throughout history.
11. The tribes of Aaron and the priestly order have no distinct lineage anymore.
12. The lineage of Solomon is lost within all his wives and concubines.

These are indisputable facts. Given these facts.

How would you define a Gentile that doesn't include "Jews"?

 

[Red Baker]

@praise_yeshua

It is difficult to actually get Judaism to actually define the word "Jew". Ask several "Jews" and you will get several different answers.

You are correct, yet I would not ask a "Jew", but I would seek my answer for the scriptures.

Calling all self proclaimed "Jews", define Gentile for us.

I'm not a Jew by nature, but I'm by being born of God ~ I'm a true Jew in the eyes of God, even though no Jews (or at least one who thinks he is) would ever acknowledge a person like me, being a true biblical Jews to whom are the promises of God given to through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 2:28​

“For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God."

1. The word Gentile was never used during the life of Abraham.
2. The word Gentile was never used during the life of Isaac.
3. The word Gentile was never used during the life of Jacob.
4. The word Gentile was never used during the lives of the 12 Patriarchs nor the lives of the 12 princes of Ishmael. Nor in the lives of the six sons of Keturah.

Agreed

5. The Greek word for Gentile isn't "nations" in the context of the lives of the very people that would become Israel. As such, the very concept is foreign to very people to whom God spoke.

I would respectfully disagree, but will first give you the opportunity to explain yourself, a little more without going to the Greek but just use the scriptures to prove your point.

6. Tamar and Ruth both are part of the very lineage of Jesus Christ. Tamar is said to have "played the harlot" in the book of Genesis and Ruth was Moabite descendent that was deny entry to the commonwealth of Israel.
7. Moses married a black women of Cush. A very beautiful women.
8. The descendents of Patriarchs endlessly married among the inhabitants of Canaan.
9. The descendents of Patriarchs still continued marrying outside of their own lineages. Even to this very day.

Agreed (point six I would just said they would have been considered Gentles by the NT writers).

Jewrusalem was NOT built by Jews. It was conquered and lost again over and over throughout history.

Disagree, but will first give you the opportunity to elaborate.

11. The tribes of Aaron and the priestly order have no distinct lineage anymore.
12. The lineage of Solomon is lost within all his wives and concubines.

Agreed.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I would respectfully disagree, but will first give you the opportunity to explain yourself, a little more without going to the Greek but just use the scriptures to prove your point.

Thanks. During the lives of Abraham and his immediate descendents, there was only the context of "circumcision" that seperated Abraham and His descendents from other people. There were not many nations that existed. It is one of the reasons you don't find the world used in the context of the lives of Abraham and his immediate descendants.

Disagree, but will first give you the opportunity to elaborate.

Agreed.

The city of "Jewrusalem" was originally the city of Salem as referenced in

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

This is the Canaanite name Shalem.

A priestly order already existed before Abraham and it was tied to a city that was never the possession of Abraham. Abraham actually looked for a heavenly city. Not the city of Salem. He knew where that was already.....

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

This is why I mention that Salem was conquered. It was never built by God. It was built by men. Men other than the descendents of Abraham.

The idea there is any temporal possession associated with the Eternal Promises of God is really not true.

 

[Red Baker]

@praise_yeshua

The idea there is any temporal possession associated with the Eternal Promises of God is really not true.

I just quickly read what you posted and will consider it more tomorrow. But, I think you did a good job, and truly see very little where I would disagree, but will read carefully early in morning, the Lord willing.

Forgive my errors in typing in my first post, since I went very fast (just like I'm doing now) because short on time, just read it again and I see where i made a few mistakes.

RB