Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

brightfame52 said:
Faith is the fruit of the spirit Galatians 5:22
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But faith in Christ must exist before that or one may not receive the Spirit

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So that verse does not support your Calvinist theology.
 
brightfame52 said:
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5 22
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But faith in Christ must exist before that or one may not receive the Spirit

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So that verse does not support your Calvinist theology.
 
brightfame52 said:
Faith is the fruit of the spirit Galatians 5:22
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@brightfame52 , you and your cohorts are total masters of scripture manipulation.

I dont know which of you is better at that... but you do get the gold star for copy and pasting the same thing over and over again
even when you are proven wrong. Are you a member of the Gump family? Me thinks you might be.
 
FreeInChrist said:
@brightfame52 , you and your cohorts are total masters of scripture manipulation.
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Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, I like this writer as well on Faith in Gal 5:22

Faith - This is the ability to believe God when the conditions say don’t. Before a person is saved they are spiritually dead and have no faith to believe on the Lord therefore the Lord gives faith as a fruit of the Holy Spirit. It is always salvation first then once we are given faith, we then have the ability to believe. Here the word "faith" is a noun and once we have faith we then have the ability to "believe" which is a verb meaning action. So we have the ability to believe once we are given faith but not before.
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brightfame52 said:
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
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The faith that enables one to have the Spirit comes before that

John 7:38–39 (NASB 95) — 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Galatians 3:2 (NASB 95) — 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:5 (NASB 95) — 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:14 (NASB 95) — 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 3:17 (NASB 95) — 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,
 
brightfame52 said:
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22
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You ignored this


Men Receive the Spirit through faith



Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)



Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
brightfame52 said:
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22
Click to expand...
You ignored this


Men Receive the Spirit through faith



Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)



Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
MTMattie said:
Calvinists believe this verse is the proof that it is by God that one is chosen for salvation and that God gives you the necessary gift of faith that makes that truly happen.

I know, I know... this is roughly stated in simplicity, but still there are those who read things and need such simplicity.

But here is another question?

Can we repent or does God cause us to repent?​


He allegedly gives us the faith that is required. Correct? So is it our faith that causes us to repent or is it God?
In my studies of predestination V foreknowledge I ran into this very question. A very thought provoking question.
Excerps are from https://evidenceunseen.com/new-test.../can-we-repent-or-does-god-cause-us-to-repent

Paul , in 2 Tim 2:25 nasb95 writes with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, 2:25.

Some interpreters viciously argue that we cannot repent, unless God grants this to us.
Some suggestion of such we find in Acts 5:31 NASB95 “He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins... although to a group certainly does not qualify as to an individual.

So, does this eliminate the importance of freewill in regard to repentance?

In other words, are we responsible for repentance or is God?
And if it be God, can we be held accountable if we dont fully repent?

Opinions?
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Ephesians is such a difficult book.

In context, chapter 2 is talking about the believers at Ephesus having been (metaphorically) dead in sins, and then quickened - that is, made to be alive. It is a resurrection of a sort.

Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; ... 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

The way that the verse declares ARE SAVED has led many to think of salvation as a single act that happens at a moment in time. That's a MISunderstanding. Here in Ephesians 2, this singular event is only the beginning of salvation for the Ephesians.

The rest of the book goes on to exhort the Ephesians - now that they have been resurrected - to stay the course, to walk out the path of salvation, and contend for the faith. The book finishes talking about putting on "the full armor of God" and fighting against satan and the powers of this world.

TL;DR - Ephesians 2 is about regeneration, and there's a whole lot that comes after that initial event that is the real focus of the book.
 
Wick Stick said:
Ephesians is such a difficult book.

In context, chapter 2 is talking about the believers at Ephesus having been (metaphorically) dead in sins, and then quickened - that is, made to be alive. It is a resurrection of a sort.

Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; ... 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

The way that the verse declares ARE SAVED has led many to think of salvation as a single act that happens at a moment in time. That's a MISunderstanding. Here in Ephesians 2, this singular event is only the beginning of salvation for the Ephesians.

The rest of the book goes on to exhort the Ephesians - now that they have been resurrected - to stay the course, to walk out the path of salvation, and contend for the faith. The book finishes talking about putting on "the full armor of God" and fighting against satan and the powers of this world.

TL;DR - Ephesians 2 is about regeneration, and there's a whole lot that comes after that initial event that is the real focus of the book.
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Eph 2 is addressing those who were in Christ

Ephesians 1:1–13 (NASB95) — 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

They were saved through faith, as seen above and below.

Ephesians 2:8 (NASB95) — 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
 
brightfame52 said:
Of course it is that's the only people Christ died for those who were in him before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4
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Jesus gave himself as a sacrifice for all who would believe in Him.

Yes, a core tenet of Christian theology is that Jesus gave his life as a sacrifice to atone for sin, and this sacrifice is considered effective for all who believe in him.

This belief is supported by biblical passages such as John 3:16, which states, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life".

Other verses, like Mark 10:45, describe Jesus's life as a "ransom for many," while Hebrews 10:10 refers to believers being made holy through the sacrifice of Jesus's body "once for all".
 
brightfame52 said:
Of course it is that's the only people Christ died for those who were in him before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1:4
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Sorry they did not exist before the foundation of the world to be in Christ

And it is when one believes that one is placed in Christ

Rom 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

2 Cor 5:17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
 
brightfame52 said:
Yes they did in the foreknowledge of God
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Your problem

Ephesians 2:1–3 (NASB95) — 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

that is not someone in Christ
 

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