Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".

[TedT]

...or one is born again when by their redemption and the grace of the Holy Spirit their free will is re-established and they can start their training in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11...

???????????????????????????????????

About:
...ofr o eis born agaibtewhenb y gtheir rfedempgtino their fre eiwll is re-esatblished

...this was a lengthy typo caused by me not watching the screen but just going only by touch, then accidently hitting the post button, sigh.

 

[atpollard]

No I never said a person is always born again. The elect are not born naturally born again of God.

Sorry, I stand corrected.
So WHEN are they “born again” in the whole process from “foreknown” to “glorified”?

• Before or after they first hear?
• Before or after they believe?
• Before or after they repent and are baptized (like Acts 2)?
• Before or after they receive the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing their inheritance?

 

[atpollard]

About:
...ofr o eis born agaibtewhenb y gtheir rfedempgtino their fre eiwll is re-esatblished

...this was a lengthy typo caused by me not watching the screen but just going only by touch, then accidently hitting the post button, sigh.

Don’t sigh … it was an impressive typo. Let’s see “spellcheck” do that! People are still better than AI!

 

[Blessed]

Respectfully, the essence of "Calvinist" salvation is:
"I [God] will have mercy on whom I [God] have mercy, and I [God] will have compassion on whom I [God] have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. - Romans 9:15-16 [ESV]

The essence of FREE WILL salvation is:
In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes. - Judges17:6; 21:25 [ESV]

That's just what I was talking about it's all cockeyed. Calvinism can boast of its extremely logical systematic theology, along with an impressive pedigree of adherents over the centuries who argue for its biblical foundation all daylong. However, they don't have a firm biblical foundation and it's irrational.

If our actions are predetermined, it raises questions about moral accountability for sin.

The idea that God predestines some for salvation and others for damnation challenges notions of fairness and justice. That sounds like a pagan god.

Calvinism selectively interprets scripture to support its doctrines. Words like “world” and “whoever believes” are twisted to fit their doctrines

 

[TomL]

About:
...ofr o eis born agaibtewhenb y gtheir rfedempgtino their fre eiwll is re-esatblished

...this was a lengthy typo caused by me not watching the screen but just going only by touch, then accidently hitting the post button, sigh.

No problem

 

[TomL]

No I don't. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit and it won't change my friend Gal 5:22

You ignore the scripture that shows faith is needed before one receives the Spirit.

 

[Blessed]

About:
...ofr o eis born agaibtewhenb y gtheir rfedempgtino their fre eiwll is re-esatblished

...this was a lengthy typo caused by me not watching the screen but just going only by touch, then accidently hitting the post button, sigh.

You could have fooled me. I thought it was some more cockeyed Calvinism teaching. I was going to rebuke it with a sharp disapproval or criticism.

 

[brightfame52]

Before or after they first hear?

Before they hear, see Jesus told us who it is that hears the words of God in a spiritual sense Jn 8:47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

To be of God I understand to be born of God

 

[brightfame52]

You ignore the scripture that shows faith is needed before one receives the Spirit.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, new birth

 

[TomL]

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit, new birth

You ignored scripture again.


The Spirit is received through faith



Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)



Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored scripture again.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22 if you don't have the spirit you have no faith

 

[TomL]

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22 if you don't have the spirit you have no faith

You ignored scripture again.


The Spirit is received through faith



Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)



Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[brightfame52]

You ignored scripture again.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22

 

[TomL]

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Galatians 5:22

You ignored scripture again.


The Spirit is received through faith



Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.



Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?



Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,



John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)



Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 

[Red Baker]

Sir, if one truly has knowledge of these truths, then those expressions would be turned into: etc. Joy unspeakable and full of glory!

 

[Red Baker]

@atpollard @Blessed, @FreeInChrist @Victoria @brightfame52 @civic @Grace ambassador

Are they "born again" when they "heard" the word of truth?

• Are they "born again" when they "believed" the word of truth?
• Are they "born again" when they were "sealed" with the Holy Spirit?
• or do you stand with @brightfame52 and believe that they were ALWAYS "God's possession" and "born again"?

Even though beloved of God from eternity by being chosen in Christ in the everlasting covenant of grace, yet the tabernacle of David fell in Adam, raised up again with Christ's victory over sin, death, and the grave; so each are born again sometime from conception to their death of their bodies, with John the Baptist and the thief on the cross being the two scriptural example of this blessed truth.

Acts 15:13-19~"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:"

The salvation of both Jews (first) and the Gentiles (second) is the fulfillment of building again the true tabernacle of David, which is a spiritual house made up of spiritual stones, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable unto God, where the Spirit of God shall dwell forever more....for the most high God does not dwell in a house made by hands as saith Stephen.

So, if the tabernacle of David is being built by the Spirit of God ~ so, we are born again sometime during our life in this body of sin and death, if not, then we are none of His.

 

[Red Baker]

@Blessed

If our actions are predetermined, it raises questions about moral accountability for sin.

Greetings Blessed, no man's actions/deeds are predetermined of God. While I would agree that the circumstances of our overall life are: birth, parents, spouses, intelligent level, vocation, etc. etc. but, our deeds are our own doings, or else, God would not be a righteous Judge that He will be in that day. We all make choices each and every minutes that he live ~ a child of God with understanding would never deny this truth. Our daily choices determines our joy, peace and happiness, and troubles in this flesh; some choices are not good, and we pay the price for these choices, some may be good, and we also reap the benefits of these choices. We walk by faith, not by God's preordained works that we will do, for many of those are hidden from us, and has not one thing to do with what we do with our daily walk with God. Our sins are our own doings, our righteousness is owing to his mercy to us, by the Spirit's creating a new man within us, by grace alone given freely to us for Christ sake.

 

[TomL]

...or one is born again when by their redemption and the grace of the Holy Spirit their free will is re-established and they can start their training in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11...

Only those with faith receive that life


Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

 

[FreeInChrist]

No I don't. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit and it won't change my friend Gal 5:22

Do you have any comprehension of what a spiritual rebirth is?

Knowing you will not read far I will shorten this explanation down to what is truly inportant.

Topical Bible: Understanding Spiritual Rebirth

From Bible Hubs topical Bible.
The process of spiritual rebirth begins with repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. It involves acknowledging one's sinfulness, turning away from sin, and trusting in Christ's atoning sacrifice for salvation. The Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in this process, convicting individuals of sin, leading them to repentance, and regenerating their hearts.

The old has passed away; behold, the new has come!" (2 Corinthians 5:17)
The Apostle Paul exhorts believers to "put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness" (Ephesians 4:24).
Moreover, spiritual rebirth establishes a new identity in Christ, as believers are adopted into God's family and become co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).
This new identity brings with it both privileges and responsibilities, including the call to live as ambassadors of Christ, sharing the message of reconciliation with the world (2 Corinthians 5:20).

SIMPLIFIED:

Understanding Spiritual Rebirth in Christianity

The concept of “being born again” in Christianity signifies a spiritual rebirth through faith in Jesus Christ, leading to profound transformation in identity and inheritance. Salvation,…

enjoyministries.org

The concept of being “born again” in Christianity refers to a spiritual rebirth through faith in Jesus Christ.

According to Christian doctrine:

Hearing the Gospel: One must first hear the good news of Jesus’ death and resurrection

Ephesians 1:13 (New King James Version – NKJV) In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Belief and Repentance: This involves believing fully in Jesus (Romans 1:16), repenting (changing one’s mind about sin and Christ, Acts 3:19), and calling upon His name (Romans 10:9-10, 13).

Spiritual Rebirth: As stated in 1 John 5:1, “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.” This means believers are spiritually reborn from God, inheriting His divine nature.
Sanctification: 1 Thessalonians 5:23 speaks of God sanctifying the believer wholly – spirit, soul, and body, suggesting divine healing extends to the physical realm.

Stopping now.......

 

[civic]

Do you have any comprehension of what a spiritual rebirth is?

Knowing you will not read far I will shorten this explanation down to what is truly inportant.

Topical Bible: Understanding Spiritual Rebirth

From Bible Hubs topical Bible.
The process of spiritual rebirth begins with repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. It involves acknowledging one's sinfulness, turning away from sin, and trusting in Christ's atoning sacrifice for salvation. The Holy Spirit plays a crucial role in this process, convicting individuals of sin, leading them to repentance, and regenerating their hearts.

The old has passed away; behold, the new has come!" (2 Corinthians 5:17)
The Apostle Paul exhorts believers to "put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness" (Ephesians 4:24).
Moreover, spiritual rebirth establishes a new identity in Christ, as believers are adopted into God's family and become co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).
This new identity brings with it both privileges and responsibilities, including the call to live as ambassadors of Christ, sharing the message of reconciliation with the world (2 Corinthians 5:20).

SIMPLIFIED:

Understanding Spiritual Rebirth in Christianity

The concept of “being born again” in Christianity signifies a spiritual rebirth through faith in Jesus Christ, leading to profound transformation in identity and inheritance. Salvation,…

enjoyministries.org

The concept of being “born again” in Christianity refers to a spiritual rebirth through faith in Jesus Christ.

According to Christian doctrine:

Hearing the Gospel: One must first hear the good news of Jesus’ death and resurrection

Ephesians 1:13 (New King James Version – NKJV) In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Belief and Repentance: This involves believing fully in Jesus (Romans 1:16), repenting (changing one’s mind about sin and Christ, Acts 3:19), and calling upon His name (Romans 10:9-10, 13).

Spiritual Rebirth: As stated in 1 John 5:1, “Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.” This means believers are spiritually reborn from God, inheriting His divine nature.
Sanctification: 1 Thessalonians 5:23 speaks of God sanctifying the believer wholly – spirit, soul, and body, suggesting divine healing extends to the physical realm.

Stopping now.......

and we know the fruit of the spirit is only evident in a person who is already saved and is walking in the spirit which produces the fruit of the spirit.