Yes, and therefore the born again experience.
Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:” with a dollop of "free will".
- Thread starter MTMattie
- Start date
Sorry but one must first have faith so they may receive the Spirit
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Once again you ignore scripture.
atpollard
Active Member
How do you define the “born again” experience?
- The experience of John 3 that is a prerequisite to even “see the kingdom”.
- The experience of Acts 2 where they repent, are baptized and “receive the Holy Spirit”.
civic
Active Member
Like Peter did below though the preaching of the gospel, after-all he should know since he was the preacher God used in Acts 2
Peter mentions the word of God 3 times declaring its the cause, source of the new birth- being born again.
1 Peter 1:23-25
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24
“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.
And James says the same thing
James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.
So does Paul
Ephesians 1:13-14
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, / who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Active Member
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5 22
@atpollard
Brother, they received the knowledge of the Spirit, which come by hearing and hearing by the word of God. One can be born again without having "any" knowledge of any truths of the holy scriptures. Actually, truths comes "after" one is born of God, not before then!
Blessed
Active Member
It's so easy to understand Salvation it makes one wonder how Calvinists have gotten it so cockeyed.
@Blessed
There is no truth that is so easy to understand, since all is considered the Mystery of Christ.
Blessed, actually they have more truth than the arminians, who are void of all truth concerning Soteriology. I am a high Calvinist, or hyper, and make no apologies for being one. Why should I?
There is no truth that is so easy to understand, since all is considered the Mystery of Christ.
Colossians 1:26
“Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:”
TibiasDad
Active Member
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@brightfame52 you have the wrong scripture to make your point.
You receive the fruit of the spirit after you have faith. Faithfulness as listed in the Gal 5:22 is not the Faith we all must have.
The fruit of the Spirit, which includes qualities like love, joy, and peace, is produced in a person's life as a result of living in faith and being guided by the Holy Spirit. This means that having faith is essential for experiencing and growing these spiritual attributes.
See the following
Note Jimmy's translation says faith, New King James corrected to faithfulness.
New International Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
New Living Translation
But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
English Standard Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Berean Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Berean Literal Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
King James Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
New King James Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
New American Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
NASB 1995
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
NASB 1977
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Legacy Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Amplified Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Christian Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
American Standard Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
English Revised Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
GOD'S WORD® Translation
But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Good News Translation
But the Spirit produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
International Standard Version
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
NET Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
New Heart English Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Berean Literal Bible
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
New American Bible
In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,
New Revised Standard Version
By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,
NT Translations
Anderson New Testament
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faithfulness,
Mace New Testament
but the fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, sweetness of disposition, beneficence, faithfulness, meekness, temperance:
atpollard
Active Member
"born again" is a peculiar phrase that different people assign different shades of meaning to, so I was just looking for clarification on how @TomL was using the phrase.
To use the quote you selected from Ephesians 1 as a reference, let me ask what YOU mean ...
- Are they "born again" when they "heard" the word of truth?
- Are they "born again" when they "believed" the word of truth?
- Are they "born again" when they were "sealed" with the Holy Spirit?
- or do you stand with @brightfame52 and believe that they were ALWAYS "God's possession" and "born again"?
- John 3:3 [NKJV] Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:7 [NKJV] "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
- 1 Peter 1:23 [NKJV] having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
atpollard
Active Member
Respectfully, the essence of "Calvinist" salvation is:
"I [God] will have mercy on whom I [God] have mercy, and I [God] will have compassion on whom I [God] have compassion." So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. - Romans 9:15-16 [ESV]
The essence of FREE WILL salvation is:
In those days there was no king in Israel. Everyone did what was right in his own eyes. - Judges17:6; 21:25 [ESV]
When one believes one is born again and sealed"born again" is a peculiar phrase that different people assign different shades of meaning to, so I was just looking for clarification on how @TomL was using the phrase.
To use the quote you selected from Ephesians 1 as a reference, let me ask what YOU mean ...
After all, these are the only verses that actually say "born again" ...
- Are they "born again" when they "heard" the word of truth?
- Are they "born again" when they "believed" the word of truth?
- Are they "born again" when they were "sealed" with the Holy Spirit?
- or do you stand with @brightfame52 and believe that they were ALWAYS "God's possession" and "born again"?
...so most people read something into the words from another verse.
- John 3:3 [NKJV] Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
- John 3:7 [NKJV] "Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.'
- 1 Peter 1:23 [NKJV] having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
Add also
John 1:12–13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
1 John 3:9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 5:4–5For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is the one who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?
Faith in Christ must exist before the fruit of the Spirit
The Spirit is received through faith
Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)
Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
One is born again through the reception of the Spirit
...or one is born again when by their redemption and the grace of the Holy Spirit their free will is re-established and they can start their training in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11...
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brightfame52
Active Member
No I don't. Faith is the fruit of the Spirit and it won't change my friend Gal 5:22
brightfame52
Active Member
No I never said a person is always born again. The elect are not born naturally born again of God.or do you stand with @brightfame52 and believe that they were ALWAYS "God's possession" and "born again"?
Apain
Super Member
Faithfulness is steadfastness, constancy, or allegiance; it is carefulness in keeping what we are entrusted with; it is the conviction that the Scriptures accurately reflect reality. Biblical faithfulness requires belief in what the Bible says about God—His existence, His works, and His character. Faithfulness is a fruit of the Spirit; it is the result of the Spirit working in us. But the Spirit is also our seal of faithfulness. He is our witness to God’s promise that if we accept the truth about Jesus, and choose to believe in Him we will be saved.
