Does the Bible Teach A Spiritual Israel?

[praise_yeshua]

There was only one heir to Abraham, too. Isaac. Then, there was only one heir to Isaac: Jacob. Then, there was one heir to Jacob: Reuben. Then, Joseph. Then...
...until we come to Jesus. Who had no children. Thus, the Promises in Him are yea and yea.

Promises in Isaac?

Yes. That is what you preach. Isaac. Not Jesus Christ.

Does Isaac bow to Jesus Christ? Does Isaac have rights of the first born?

Jacob had 12 sons and they all bowed to Joseph. Right?

Lets keep going with this. You preach a damnable false doctrine that dishonors Jesus Christ.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Promises in Isaac?

Of course. Being patriarch has its benefits. But then again, all Abraham's seed possess benefits.

Yes. That is what you preach. Isaac. Not Jesus Christ.

You can't read? Isaac was heir to Abraham. He was heaven sent. Possessed all the Abrahamic Promises God made to Abe when Abe died not receiving the promises. Then when Isaac died not receiving the promises the inheritance then rested on Jacob.

Does Isaac bow to Jesus Christ? Does Isaac have rights of the first born?

Yes, yes.

Jacob had 12 sons and they all bowed to Joseph. Right?

Of course.

Lets keep going with this. You preach a damnable false doctrine that dishonors Jesus Christ.

So, Isaac is damnable? Calling good evil is sin. According to your theology that's the blaspheming the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin to attribute what is of God to evil. You're lost.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Of course. Being patriarch has its benefits. But then again, all Abraham's seed possess benefits.

They do? Ishmael too? The sons of Keturah?

You can't read? Isaac was heir to Abraham. He was heaven sent. Possessed all the Abrahamic Promises God made to Abe when Abe died not receiving the promises. Then when Isaac died not receiving the promises the inheritance then rested on Jacob.

So Isaac was born of a virgin? Wouldn't that negate the lineage of Abraham?

Isaac was Abraham sent. A sperm among many that made its way to Sarah's womb. You do know biology... right?

Yes, yes.

So where is Isaac exercising ownership of this "land" you say he owns? Who owns it exactly. Isaac? Jacob? One of the sons of Jacob? The first born of Jacob isn't right is it?

You can't keep this lie going.

All the lands on this planet belongs to Jesus Christ. He is the heir not only of Abraham but of Adam.

Of course.

So, Isaac is damnable? Calling good evil is sin. According to your theology that's the blaspheming the Holy Spirit. The unforgivable sin to attribute what is of God to evil. You're lost.

I never said Isaac was damnable. Peter said you were.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

 

[jeremiah1five]

They do? Ishmael too? The sons of Keturah?

Yes. by virtue of being seed of Abraham according to the blessings of God that all Abe's families of the earth are said by God to be blessed. But the Promise goes through Isaac. He is the Promised heir God said He would give Abraham. Read your Bible. It's all there.

So Isaac was born of a virgin? Wouldn't that negate the lineage of Abraham?

No. Sarah was not young. She was about 90 years old.

Isaac was Abraham sent. A sperm among many that made its way to Sarah's womb. You do know biology... right?

Isaac was God sent.

So where is Isaac exercising ownership of this "land" you say he owns? Who owns it exactly. Isaac? Jacob? One of the sons of Jacob? The first born of Jacob isn't right is it?

When Christ returns and sit on the throne Isaac and all the patriarchs will be there to receive their land. Good part of this transaction is that God will deport all non-Hebrew Gentiles out of the Promised Land. They will reside outside its borders awaiting the day when the enemy gathers them together for one last push against the Chosen people of God but fire from heaven consumes all Gentiles and all that's left is charred remains. Rev. 20:7-9.

You can't keep this lie going.
All the lands on this planet belongs to Jesus Christ. He is the heir not only of Abraham but of Adam.

God made promises to Abraham the person. Not Christ.

I never said Isaac was damnable. Peter said you were.

2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

You twist Scripture to your own damnation. Isaac is blessed and you called him damnable. That's putting evil for good. That's the unforgivable sin and you just committed it. You need to put a bridle on your tongue. It's a world of fire.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes. by virtue of being seed of Abraham according to the blessings of God that all Abe's families of the earth are said by God to be blessed. But the Promise goes through Isaac. He is the Promised heir God said He would give Abraham. Read your Bible. It's all there.

I've never seen you say anything good about anyone but "Jews". Never.

No. Sarah was not young. She was about 90 years old.

Coward. I asked you if the lack of the virgin birth of Isaac negates the lineage of Abraham. Think. If he lineage of Christ is meaningfully through the mother, then Abraham had nothing to do with it other than being a sperm donor. Christ didn't need Abraham.

Isaac was God sent.

So you don't know the "birds and the bees"? God rejuvenated Sarah. Not Abraham. I know the Bible better than you do. Abraham wasn't the problem. Sarah was.

When Christ returns and sit on the throne Isaac and all the patriarchs will be there to receive their land. Good part of this transaction is that God will deport all non-Hebrew Gentiles out of the Promised Land. They will reside outside its borders awaiting the day when the enemy gathers them together for one last push against the Chosen people of God but fire from heaven consumes all Gentiles and all that's left is charred remains. Rev. 20:7-9.

I know you're a Gentile yourself. Welcome to the "fire".....

Christ is seated on a throne right this very minute. You don't honor Jesus Christ. You honor men.

God made promises to Abraham the person. Not Christ.

There you go... It was always in there..... Lies. Damnable false doctrine.

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

God didn't swore by Abraham. He swore by Himself. God Incarnate in Jesus Christ.

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

You twist Scripture to your own damnation. Isaac is blessed and you called him damnable. That's putting evil for good. That's the unforgivable sin and you just committed it. You need to put a bridle on your tongue. It's a world of fire.

Others can read what I wrote. You define nothing for anything. You speak of yourself and for yourself. Which equals nothing,

Isaac died and his body is still in the grave. Isaac loved Ishmael and the sons of Keturah. You love no one but yourself. The seed of Isaac was enslaved to Egypt. Bound. Trodden under the feet of Gentiles for hundreds of years. It happens over and over again.

Christ is free. Never bound to a Gentile. Never trodden under the feet of men. Triumphant over the grave.

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

You don't know the Gospel. Jesus Christ is different than you. You're nothing like Him.

 

[armylngst]

Could He not have produced only those He chose to save? Why produce all those He, according to your view of things, chose not to save?

These are one of those questions that has no answer because we are not God. We cannot know the mind of God. Why did He create Adam to sin? The only answers that we have, which is not even scratching the surface, is that creation, all that is, and all that is happening, brings glory to God. And the only reason that we have that answer, is because of what God has revealed of Himself.

 

[praise_yeshua]

These are one of those questions that has no answer because we are not God. We cannot know the mind of God. Why did He create Adam to sin? The only answers that we have, which is not even scratching the surface, is that creation, all that is, and all that is happening, brings glory to God. And the only reason that we have that answer, is because of what God has revealed of Himself.

God didn't create Adam to sin. That is crazy. Such is contrary to the nature of God. What God did was create a creature with an independent mind that can act contrary to himself. Which forces that creature to learn of God to discern the intent of all of our actions. Anything else is nothing more than a "puppet master" pulling "strings"....

That is what evil mankind wants to believe about God. It lessens their culpability in their own sin.

 

[armylngst]

I started to reply in detail, but I'm going to ask you a targeted question that will destroy your beliefs. Jesus made a statement to a group of Jews (His earthy disciples).

Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

What kingdom is this?

The Millennial Kingdom. I can understand how you might miss that. I mean, the disciples asked Jesus point blank if He would "now return the Kingdom to Israel". This came after Jesus spent 40 days teaching His disciples of the Kingdom of God. The best they could do was ask "Will You now return the Kingdom to Israel?" Somehow no one seems to realize that this question is the culmination of what Jesus taught them over the course of 40 days. Jesus didn't say it wouldn't happen. He just said it wasn't for them to know when, and then He left.

Acts 1
" 3 To [c]these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God."

 

[armylngst]

Finney.... Geesh. Finney couldn't please anyone. I'm not certainly nothing like Finney.

I told you the truth. Your heart is not right with God. You want your own way. You're not allowing Christ to rule in your heart.

There is really only one context of any Greek word that equals what you believe about "ruling" something. It is found in

Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also you are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Who is our peace?

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

You still believe there is a wall that stands between the various nations of the earth. That is a false gospel that promotes the MASSOD.

Well, you show that you still have problems with reading comprehension. I never said that. There is a distinction between the remnant elect believers of Israel, and the church. Paul never said there wasn't. He simply said that there is no distinction between Jews and Gentiles IN THE CHURCH, when it came to coming to the Father. IN THE CHURCH. To put it simply, in Ephesians, Paul said that Jesus took the enmity that existed between Jews and Gentiles and put it to death IN HIS BODY. What is His body? The church, the body of Christ. In the church there is neither Jew nor Gentile. That is, before God in the church, they are one group. To say this means there is no distinction runs into problems when you consider the rest of the verse. There is neither male nor female. So... am I going to have to ask you what is a woman, and you shrug because you can't answer using your interpretation of that verse? How about slave or free man? Did Onesimus become free? No. He was still a slave, and Paul knew it, and said as much.

Jesus spoke about His temple in

Joh 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

I fail to see where Jesus says it is His heart? I mean, you even put it in bold that it was his body. Reading comprehension.

I suppose Jesus got it wrong too?

Well, I leave that to you.

Jesus was the "temple" when He offered Himself for humanity "outside the gate". You're looking for foolish things.

You should consider John 1 again, where it literally says that the Word pitched His tent and tabernacled with us. Even Paul speaks of the human body as just a tent.

 

[armylngst]

So why in the world does God not justify everyone?

He doesn't feel like it. And... that is His right. Ephesians says that He chose the elect before the foundation of the world, foreordained them to adoption of children, by the good pleasure of His will. To me, that basically means, He felt like it.

 

[Jim]

He doesn't feel like it. And... that is His right. Ephesians says that He chose the elect before the foundation of the world, foreordained them to adoption of children, by the good pleasure of His will. To me, that basically means, He felt like it.

And that is where the Calvinist gets it all wrong. He gets it wrong because that is the only way can work with Total Depravity and Total Depravity is wrong. One does not become elect simply and purely by the pleasure of His good will. God has established the condition(s) by which one becomes one of His elect.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I've never seen you say anything good about anyone but "Jews". Never.

Only when the discussion centers on Jews. Gentiles, and presumed Gentiles, always hold the position that Gentiles are included in the Hebrew covenants when there is no Scripture that clearly states this. To be clear I hold the same attitude Scripture holds towards non-Hebrews, that is, that God states Gentiles (Gentile nations) are "nothing to Him and less than nothing." Read it yourself:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

The LORD has chosen a people in Abraham who is a descendant of Eber, from whom the Hebrew" people are born from. There are no other chosen people God calls His Bride, His Church (OT Great Congregation), His Elect, His people except Israel (Hebrews, Children of, etc.) Scripture clearly places non-Hebrews as the enemy of God and of Israel throughout the Bible - including Zechariah and Revelation.
God raised up the Philistines, Assyrians, Babylonians, and the Romans, to name a few whom God used to chastise His people and then judged these nations of people for attacking Israel. It is written that God will put a hook in the nostrils of Gog and Magog to attack and war against Israel and then judge Gog and Magog for attacking Israel. In essence, it is Abraham's seed, a people God will identify as the children of Jacob (Israel) who stand against everyone who is non-Hebrew throughout history. It all comes down to non-Hebrew Gentiles who are not honest with Scripture. They will misinterpret Scripture, assign false meanings to words and terms in Scripture in order to force Gentiles into the Hebrew covenants. But there is no covenant God made with non-Hebrews that lead up to their salvation as the Mosaic Covenant presents between God and the Hebrew people with its sacrifices and offerings that point to a greater fulfillment by the Christ, who was Promised to the Hebrew people to save the Hebrew people.

Coward. I asked you if the lack of the virgin birth of Isaac negates the lineage of Abraham. Think. If he lineage of Christ is meaningfully through the mother, then Abraham had nothing to do with it other than being a sperm donor. Christ didn't need Abraham.

Isaiah's prophecy of "virgin" can be translated as "maid" a woman who is unmarried, not necessarily a woman who has never laid with a man and has her hymen intact. Isaiah 7:14 was not only a prophecy of Messiah but also pointed to Isaiah's wife. Christ needed Abraham because God made Promises to Abraham, not Sarah. God didn't promise land to Sarah. He promised land to Abraham, and other mentions. So, if Christ is to inherit the land which He will promptly give to Abraham and his seed when Christ sits on His throne at some future date, then Abraham is needed in the big picture.

So you don't know the "birds and the bees"? God rejuvenated Sarah. Not Abraham. I know the Bible better than you do. Abraham wasn't the problem. Sarah was.

I don't see any word in the text that claims Sarah's womb was "rejuvenated."
I don't see a "problem" at all where these two are concerned. The only problem was Sarah giving Abe her servant Hagar in order to self-fulfill the promises and prophecies God made about providing an heir to Abraham.

I know you're a Gentile yourself. Welcome to the "fire".....

In keeping with the promises God made to Abraham and his biological seed that would be born and the fact that God promised His Spirit to Israel (Joel), and the fact that I am a born-again by that same Spirit, then I would have to have had at least one Hebrew parent in my ancestry. The Bible is a history of the relationship between God and His people, and His people are Abraham and his biological seed.

Christ is seated on a throne right this very minute. You don't honor Jesus Christ. You honor men.

Christ does not sit on the throne of David right now. This is prophesied for a later date. Israel would become a monarchy when this promise is fulfilled.

There you go... It was always in there..... Lies. Damnable false doctrine.

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

God didn't swore by Abraham. He swore by Himself. God Incarnate in Jesus Christ.

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

You're looking at it from an end time perspective. I'm looking at it in the time these individuals were alive. And when Abraham was alive or Isaac, neither of these men knew of any Messiah or future king, nor of God's Spirit being given to Abraham's end time seed.

Others can read what I wrote. You define nothing for anything. You speak of yourself and for yourself. Which equals nothing,

Isaac died and his body is still in the grave. Isaac loved Ishmael and the sons of Keturah. You love no one but yourself. The seed of Isaac was enslaved to Egypt. Bound. Trodden under the feet of Gentiles for hundreds of years. It happens over and over again.

And yet you turn and say Gentiles are blessed of God and are saved. You have clearly identified Gentiles as the enemy of God and the Hebrew people. It happens over and over as you said. Revelation 20:7-9 shows God dealing with Gentiles finally and forever.

Christ is free. Never bound to a Gentile. Never trodden under the feet of men. Triumphant over the grave.

Col 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

You don't know the Gospel. Jesus Christ is different than you. You're nothing like Him.

And these "principalities and powers" are men NOT fallen angels for the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

I know that there is more than one gospel. Many men and women of God in Scripture have many stories of good news that are recorded in Scripture. Like Hannah, she has a good news story that is recorded in the pages of Scripture. David, Solomon, Peter, Saul, - the list is long. The birth of Isaac is a good news story. Mary, the mother of Jesus has a good news story. Jesus Himself has a good news story. The list is long.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Only when the discussion centers on Jews. Gentiles, and presumed Gentiles, always hold the position that Gentiles are included in the Hebrew covenants when there is no Scripture that clearly states this. To be clear I hold the same attitude Scripture holds towards non-Hebrews, that is, that God states Gentiles (Gentile nations) are "nothing to Him and less than nothing." Read it yourself:

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

All nations include Israel.

You're funny... Go back a few verse dummy.


Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
Isa 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Isaiah's prophecy of "virgin" can be translated as "maid" a woman who is unmarried, not necessarily a woman who has never laid with a man and has her hymen intact. Isaiah 7:14 was not only a prophecy of Messiah but also pointed to Isaiah's wife. Christ needed Abraham because God made Promises to Abraham, not Sarah. God didn't promise land to Sarah. He promised land to Abraham, and other mentions. So, if Christ is to inherit the land which He will promptly give to Abraham and his seed when Christ sits on His throne at some future date, then Abraham is needed in the big picture.

Spoke like a true denier of Holy Trinity. I thought you were a Trinitarian?
Denying the "virgin birth" of Jesus Christ makes you what exact?

I don't see any word in the text that claims Sarah's womb was "rejuvenated."
I don't see a "problem" at all where these two are concerned. The only problem was Sarah giving Abe her servant Hagar in order to self-fulfill the promises and prophecies God made about providing an heir to Abraham.

Funny. An Gentile trying to convince others that he is actual knows something about the bible.

Here read it for yourself.

Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Christ does not sit on the throne of David right now. This is prophesied for a later date. Israel would become a monarchy when this promise is fulfilled.

David doesn't have a throne. It was destroyed. It is gone. Why in the world you would think Christ will sit upon something that doesn't exist is rather telling of your ignorance.

You're looking at it from an end time perspective. I'm looking at it in the time these individuals were alive. And when Abraham was alive or Isaac, neither of these men knew of any Messiah or future king, nor of God's Spirit being given to Abraham's end time seed.

You talking about these last days?

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

You're a "wannabee" Hebrew Gentile that will never be accepted among the people you promote.

And yet you turn and say Gentiles are blessed of God and are saved. You have clearly identified Gentiles as the enemy of God and the Hebrew people. It happens over and over as you said. Revelation 20:7-9 shows God dealing with Gentiles finally and forever.

Was Adam a Gentile. I'm am son of Adam. A direct descendent. You don't even know what Gog and Magog means.

And these "principalities and powers" are men NOT fallen angels for the angels that sinned are locked up awaiting judgment.

I know that there is more than one gospel. Many men and women of God in Scripture have many stories of good news that are recorded in Scripture. Like Hannah, she has a good news story that is recorded in the pages of Scripture. David, Solomon, Peter, Saul, - the list is long. The birth of Isaac is a good news story. Mary, the mother of Jesus has a good news story. Jesus Himself has a good news story. The list is long.

I see it is just a farce to you.....

"Good news" in everyone right? How long is that list that you have that is equal to the "good news" of Christ?

You just keeping getting worse. You're changing. You can't believe what you say you believe and not do this when you're challenged. You're crumbling. You're on a dangerous path.

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Millennial Kingdom. I can understand how you might miss that. I mean, the disciples asked Jesus point blank if He would "now return the Kingdom to Israel". This came after Jesus spent 40 days teaching His disciples of the Kingdom of God. The best they could do was ask "Will You now return the Kingdom to Israel?" Somehow no one seems to realize that this question is the culmination of what Jesus taught them over the course of 40 days. Jesus didn't say it wouldn't happen. He just said it wasn't for them to know when, and then He left.

Acts 1
" 3 To [c]these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God."

"Might miss it"... I once believed it myself. So don't tell me that I don't know what you believe already. I know the teaching better than you do.

Do you remember Jesus entering Jerusalem? What was that for?

Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.

Joh 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
Joh 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Joh 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ***, sat thereon; as it is written,
Joh 12:15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ***'s colt.

The problem you have brother is one of perspective. This king you desire isn't like you. He doesn't rule like you expect Him to rule. He will have your heart..... He will not settle for less.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

The Kingdom of Christ has no end. It is Eternal. It is Eternal because He is Eternal. There is no beginning. There is no end. The Kingdom of Christ is not of this world. This world will pass away. This "throne" you expect Christ to rule upon will end.

Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

You're present a kingdom that isn't Eternal. I know better than this.

 

[armylngst]

God didn't create Adam to sin. That is crazy. Such is contrary to the nature of God. What God did was create a creature with an independent mind that can act contrary to himself. Which forces that creature to learn of God to discern the intent of all of our actions. Anything else is nothing more than a "puppet master" pulling "strings"....

So God screwed up? If God foreordained the elect to adoption before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1), then how else can this happen without God being a liar? How else, unless God determined, before the foundation of the world, that Adam and Eve would sin. And as such, God's plan of reconciliation and redemption TO HIS GLORY, unfolds. Ephesians doesn't simply stop at saying that the elect were foreordained to the adoption of children and stop there. He says they were foreordained to the adoption of children THROUGH CHRIST. So before the foundation of the world, God had already set the plan of redemption into motion.

This is why I say that it is of the utmost important to understand who God is, and not by looking at Him through the eyes of a man.

That is what evil mankind wants to believe about God. It lessens their culpability in their own sin.

It does not lessen the culpability, unless, of course, they place themselves above God. This comes from viewing the world and God through the eyes of man, instead of starting from the position of God, and who He is. This is a failure to consider God on His own, instead of projecting man onto God, like Greeks and Romans projected human attitudes, sin, etc onto their gods.

 

[armylngst]

And that is where the Calvinist gets it all wrong. He gets it wrong because that is the only way can work with Total Depravity and Total Depravity is wrong. One does not become elect simply and purely by the pleasure of His good will. God has established the condition(s) by which one becomes one of His elect.

So, you are a pelagian. I get it. The belief that a man can choose on their own to not sin, which, when taken to its logical conclusion, means Jesus is not necessary and is a crutch for those who want to believe that they are totally depraved. I get it. However, it is also possible that you don't understand what total depravity is. The belief that sin has so corrupted man, that there is nothing within man that desires God. Man solely desires sin, unless God changes the man. Isn't that basically what Jesus said when He answered the disciples question "Then who can be saved?" With man, it is IMPOSSIBLE. FULL STOP. Jesus has nothing to say to this to show man has any redeeming quality. IMPOSSIBLE. Cannot happen. There is no opening. There is no unless here when speaking of man. My question is why you so hate Jesus words "BUT WITH GOD". Why do you hate that idea? Is it because it brings God glory, and leaves man in His debt? Is that what you cannot stand? The fact that since you live in God's house (creation), that it is His rules and not yours?

Also, given the last sentence of your statement, why do you believe that Jesus sacrifice is not enough, but that their are conditions/works required? Why do you believe salvation is by merit and not by grace?

 

[armylngst]

"Might miss it"... I once believed it myself. So don't tell me that I don't know what you believe already. I know the teaching better than you do.

Do you remember Jesus entering Jerusalem? What was that for?

Zec 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***.

Joh 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,
Joh 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Joh 12:14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ***, sat thereon; as it is written,
Joh 12:15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ***'s colt.

The problem you have brother is one of perspective. This king you desire isn't like you. He doesn't rule like you expect Him to rule. He will have your heart..... He will not settle for less.

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

The Kingdom of Christ has no end. It is Eternal. It is Eternal because He is Eternal. There is no beginning. There is no end. The Kingdom of Christ is not of this world. This world will pass away. This "throne" you expect Christ to rule upon will end.

Luk 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

You're present a kingdom that isn't Eternal. I know better than this.

You seem to have completely miss what Jesus said Himself. He said that Jerusalem would not see Him again (in other words Jerusalem WILL see Him again), until they say "Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord", which is to say, they would not see Him again until they proclaim Him King. I'm not sure how you miss things like this. Jesus will come to Israel (Zechariah, other prophets, and Revelation attest to this), and God WILL fulfill His covenants, despite your belief that He will not. (Abrahamic, Davidic, new, etc.) Not the Mosaic covenant, that was temporary and Israel broke it. If God will not fulfill the covenants/promises He made with the fathers, and others, what faith/trust can we have that God will fulfill the new covenant?

The Kingdom is not eternal. The Kingdom presented in the Old Testament is not presented as eternal, but age-during. The English words do not portray it properly. The Kingdom presented is not the eternal state, but prior. Revelation presents it as the Millennial Kingdom. The Old Testament presents it as the Messianic Kingdom. Daniel presents it as that Kingdom which supplants the time of the Gentiles. It completely removes it from existence. If there is anything to be learned from God's prophecy to Pharaoh, interpreted by Daniel, there are no words wasted. No imagery out of place. Every piece of imagery had a meaning. In the same way, in Daniel, each part of the prophecy to Nebuchadnezzar had meaning. When that rock destroys the statue, God is clear. The times of the Gentiles will end, and the Messianic Kingdom begin.
"44 “In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever. 45 This is the meaning of the vision of the rock cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a rock that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces."

Forever is indefinite such as Daniel speaking to Nebuchadnezzar (same word used), Oh king, live forever. It is also translated as the past, antiquity, etc. such as "the kings in past days," Paul speaks of this kingdom in saying that once Jesus has defeated the final enemy (death), He will return the Kingdom to the Father. When is death finally defeated? Revelation 20 "14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death." Conveniently for me, this is right after the Millennial Kingdom ends.

As for th passage itself:
" 24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he “has put everything under his feet.”[c] Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all."

 

[jeremiah1five]

All nations include Israel.

All nations mean all nations that does not include Israel.

You're funny... Go back a few verse dummy.


Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
Isa 40:7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.
Isa 40:8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.



Spoke like a true denier of Holy Trinity. I thought you were a Trinitarian?
Denying the "virgin birth" of Jesus Christ makes you what exact?



Funny. An Gentile trying to convince others that he is actual knows something about the bible.

Here read it for yourself.

Rom 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;



David doesn't have a throne. It was destroyed. It is gone. Why in the world you would think Christ will sit upon something that doesn't exist is rather telling of your ignorance.

When Christ returns will be the beginning of a Golden Age for Israel with Jesus sitting on the throne of David. Christ is King. King of Israel. And Christ will bring back a monarchy that will last forever. That throne is the throne occupied by David.

You talking about these last days?

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

You're a "wannabee" Hebrew Gentile that will never be accepted among the people you promote.

Unlikely. I possess the sign of covenant. And it is uniquely Abrahamic.

Was Adam a Gentile. I'm am son of Adam. A direct descendent. You don't even know what Gog and Magog means.

Adam was not Gentile. But he is a son of God.

I see it is just a farce to you.....

"Good news" in everyone right? How long is that list that you have that is equal to the "good news" of Christ?

You just keeping getting worse. You're changing. You can't believe what you say you believe and not do this when you're challenged. You're crumbling. You're on a dangerous path.

I never said it was equal. But I can point to the day I was born again and this to me was good news.
I have a gospel I share with others from time to time.
It is a gospel story. Good news.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So God screwed up?

No. That is way God wanted it.

If God foreordained the elect to adoption before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1), then how else can this happen without God being a liar? How else, unless God determined, before the foundation of the world, that Adam and Eve would sin. And as such, God's plan of reconciliation and redemption TO HIS GLORY, unfolds. Ephesians doesn't simply stop at saying that the elect were foreordained to the adoption of children and stop there. He says they were foreordained to the adoption of children THROUGH CHRIST. So before the foundation of the world, God had already set the plan of redemption into motion.

So many things wrong with what you just said.......You've learned God through the lens of Calvinism. That view limits your understanding.

God didn't choose you individual before the foundation of the world. The Divine Person of Jesus Christ existed before this world was ever formed. This world was formed for His glory. HE was chosen before the foundation of the world "Incarnate" to express His full Divine nature in the weakness of flesh. You can't accept these facts. HE was chosen. You were not. HE is the goal. You're not. As close as you can get to what I believe is found in the teach some have referenced as Corporate Election. I believed it before someone decided to "define" Corporate Election. If you love Jesus Christ, you'll love Him no matter the "Glory" you believe you'll get from Him.

The teaching of Individual Election is nothing more than a ego driven theology that promotes no one but the person claiming they've "been chosen". You have the same problem with what you believe about "Israel".

This is why I say that it is of the utmost important to understand who God is, and not by looking at Him through the eyes of a man.

That is what you're doing yourself. I'm not. You don't know what I believe, I know what you believe because I find it written by Augustine or Calvin. Or by "Mac" or "Sproul" or dozens of others. You are their disciples.

It does not lessen the culpability, unless, of course, they place themselves above God. This comes from viewing the world and God through the eyes of man, instead of starting from the position of God, and who He is. This is a failure to consider God on His own, instead of projecting man onto God, like Greeks and Romans projected human attitudes, sin, etc onto their gods.

You placed yourself above Jesus Christ in election just a few sentences ago. YOU believe you were chosen and the means of Jesus Christ was punished for YOU.

If that doesn't make YOU special.... then what does exactly?

I don't believe that nonsense. I abandoned my ego in such things decades ago. God doesn't need you. He doesn't need me. Not even in a choice of His own making.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So, you are a pelagian. I get it. The belief that a man can choose on their own to not sin, which, when taken to its logical conclusion, means Jesus is not necessary and is a crutch for those who want to believe that they are totally depraved. I get it. However, it is also possible that you don't understand what total depravity is. The belief that sin has so corrupted man, that there is nothing within man that desires God. Man solely desires sin, unless God changes the man. Isn't that basically what Jesus said when He answered the disciples question "Then who can be saved?" With man, it is IMPOSSIBLE. FULL STOP. Jesus has nothing to say to this to show man has any redeeming quality. IMPOSSIBLE. Cannot happen. There is no opening. There is no unless here when speaking of man. My question is why you so hate Jesus words "BUT WITH GOD". Why do you hate that idea? Is it because it brings God glory, and leaves man in His debt? Is that what you cannot stand? The fact that since you live in God's house (creation), that it is His rules and not yours?

Also, given the last sentence of your statement, why do you believe that Jesus sacrifice is not enough, but that their are conditions/works required? Why do you believe salvation is by merit and not by grace?

Geesh.....

Man being incapable of sin doesn't impart knowledge. You're so immature and unlearned. It is why you're falling for this nonsense you believe.

Power to save is much more than ceasing from sin.

The true sign of Divinity isn't found in limitless power. It is found in what God chooses not to do. That requires impeccable Character.