Daniel As Skeleton for Matthew 24

mikesw

Active Member
I went through Matthew 24 verses (and a bit into ch 25) and matched to Daniel where it seems logical. I may miss some ideas and maybe have weak pairings at times. I also include Luke 21 verses on the left column. Luke explains details that the gentiles would not recognize as well in Matthew 24.

Luke 21Matthew 24:1–51 (ESV)Daniel
[judgment of Jerusalem and temple]
Jerusalem as rebellious and defiledDan 9:5
6,Temple Doomed1Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.Temple doomed: Dan 9:26
73As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”Dan 8:23; Dan 9:26
16-179“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.Dan 7:21; Dan 7:25; Dan 8:24; Dan 11:33-35
[saints protected for time, times, and half a time]Dan 12:11,12; Dan 7:25
12And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.Dan 12:2 (wicked)
1913But the one who endures to the end will be saved.Dan 12:12 (blessed is he who waits … 1335 days)
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.Dan 12:7

2015“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),Dan 9:27; Dan 12:11 (end of sacrifice); Luk 21:20 (Jerusalem surrounded)
22[Luke 21:22 vengeance]Dan 8:19 (Indignation)
23-2421For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.Dan 12:1; Luke 21:23-24 (great distress upon the land and wrath against this people)
24[Jerusalem trampled underfoot by the Gentiles]Dan 9:26 (destroy the city and sanctuary)
22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut shortDan 12:1 (book of life)
24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.Lead astray—Dan 8:23 (riddles); Dan 8:25 (cunning); Dan 11:36 (astonishing)
25-26 signs in sun and moon and stars29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shakenDan 12:1 (tribulation – but not signs)
26[people fainting... foreboding what is coming]Dan 7:28 (Daniel's terror)
[power is broken by Christ]Dan 9:25
27 see Son of Man coming in a cloud30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Dan 7:13; Luke 21:27
[kingdom of the world become the kingdom of God]Dan 7:14; Dan 2:44
28 redemption is near31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the otherDan 12:2
37For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.Dan 9:26 “. . . Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. . . .”
38For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,Dan 9:26 “. . . Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. . . .”
42Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.Maybe Dan 12:11,12 (1290 to 1335 days)
45“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?Dan 12:3 (the wise); Dan 11:35
46Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.Dan 12:12 (1335 days);
47Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.Dan 7:27 (inherit the kingdom)
25:1“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.Dan 7:13
9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’Dan 12:3 (the wise)
25:13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.Maybe Dan 12:11,12 (1290 to 1335 days)

Daniel then is a skeleton for Matt 24 and Luke 21 (likely Mark 13, but did not review that). There are other OT prophecies that fit into this pattern but my focus is only on the connection with Daniel in this post.
 
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I went through Matthew 24 verses (and a bit into ch 25) and matched to Daniel where it seems logical. I may miss some ideas and maybe have weak pairings at times. I also include Luke 21 verses on the left column. Luke explains details that the gentiles would not recognize as well in Matthew 24.

Luke 21Matthew 24:1–51 (ESV)Daniel
[judgment of Jerusalem and temple]
Jerusalem as rebellious and defiledDan 9:5
6,Temple Doomed1Jesus left the temple and was going away, when his disciples came to point out to him the buildings of the temple.Temple doomed: Dan 9:26
73As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”Dan 8:23; Dan 9:26
16-179“Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake.Dan 7:21; Dan 7:25; Dan 8:24; Dan 11:33-35
[saints protected for time, times, and half a time]Dan 12:11,12; Dan 7:25
12And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.Dan 12:2 (wicked)
1913But the one who endures to the end will be saved.Dan 12:12 (blessed is he who waits … 1335 days)
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.Dan 12:7

2015“So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),Dan 9:27; Dan 12:11 (end of sacrifice); Luk 21:20 (Jerusalem surrounded)
22[Luke 21:22 vengeance]Dan 8:19 (Indignation)
23-2421For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.Dan 12:1; Luke 21:23-24 (great distress upon the land and wrath against this people)
24[Jerusalem trampled underfoot by the Gentiles]Dan 9:26 (destroy the city and sanctuary)
22And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut shortDan 12:1 (book of life)
24For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.Lead astray—Dan 8:23 (riddles); Dan 8:25 (cunning); Dan 11:36 (astonishing)
25-26 signs in sun and moon and stars29“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shakenDan 12:1 (tribulation – but not signs)
26[people fainting... foreboding what is coming]Dan 7:28 (Daniel's terror)
[power is broken by Christ]Dan 9:25
27 see Son of Man coming in a cloud30Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Dan 7:13; Luke 21:27
[kingdom of the world become the kingdom of God]Dan 7:14; Dan 2:44
28 redemption is near31And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the otherDan 12:2
37For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.Dan 9:26 “. . . Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. . . .”
38For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark,Dan 9:26 “. . . Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. . . .”
42Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.Maybe Dan 12:11,12 (1290 to 1335 days)
45“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time?Dan 12:3 (the wise); Dan 11:35
46Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.Dan 12:12 (1335 days);
47Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.Dan 7:27 (inherit the kingdom)
25:1“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.Dan 7:13
9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’Dan 12:3 (the wise)
25:13 Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.Maybe Dan 12:11,12 (1290 to 1335 days)

Daniel then is a skeleton for Matt 24 and Luke 21 (likely Mark 13, but did not review that). There are other OT prophecies that fit into this pattern but my focus is only on the connection with Daniel in this post.
Don't add the nonexistent note for Matthew 24:24. It isn't there. Note the differences between Matthew 24 and Luke 21. In Matthew 24:
Matthew 24:
6 And you are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.


9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will [c]fall away and will [d]betray one another and hate one another.

Luke 21:
"10 Then He continued saying to them, “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, 11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and plagues; and there will be terrors and great [e]signs from heaven."


"12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, [f]bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake.

Note the disparity. Luke says that the tribulation of the church comes BEFORE Nation rising against nation, etc. Matthew says it comes AFTER. Two views, which makes sense. Matthew is writing to the Hebrew, to the Jews, while Luke is writing to a Gentile, who could care less about Jewish eschatology. Hence you will notice the eschatological questions are absent from Luke's book.

Luke 21: "7 So they questioned Him, saying, “Teacher, when therefore will these things happen? And what will be the [d]sign when these things are about to take place?”
This is solely speaking of: "5 And while some were talking about the temple, that it had been adorned with beautiful stones and dedicated gifts, He said, 6 “As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down.”
The questions here are specific to the temple being torn down. AD 70.

The other thing it says, which is in line with Daniel is:
"20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is at hand." And of this it says:
"22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled." It speaks of God's judgment against Jerusalem and Israel.

Now on to Matthew 24:
" And coming out from the temple, Jesus was going along, and His disciples came up to point out the temple buildings to Him. 2 And He answered and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.” Similar start. However, when you get to the disciples questions:

3 Now as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the [a]end of the age?”

There is a change here. You now have questions related to Jewish eschatology. The answer given seems to be about the Jewish eschatology, while with Luke it is the generalized AD 70, with just a touch of eschatology. In Luke, the real eschtological words of Jesus come prior to Luke's recording of the Olivet Discourse. External to it. I think it is so they don't mistaken what Luke is saying with eschatology.

"15 “Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains."

So basically the same, OK, it's different then what Luke recorded. In the first, the armies are surrounding the city. In Matthew 24, if we take Daniel's prophecies as a starting point, this is after armies have entered the city. So two different events again. The first, armies surrounding the city, the second, the enemy is already inside the gates. So why are they told to wait for the abomination of desolation? Could it be the peace that Daniel says presides over the start of the 70th week? It isn't until the middle of the week that we see the other time in Daniel's book about the abomination of desolation, where they come in, put an end to the sacrifice, and set up the abomination of desolation. (In that case, a pig sacrificed on the altar in the Holy of Holies.)

Now why does Jesus say they should run in Matthew 24? Is it because the desolation of Jerusalem is at hand? That isn't what Jesus says. He says:
"21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the [j]elect those days will be cut short."
He changes it up by speaking of tribulation that is measured in the scale of the WORLD, not Israel and Jerusalem. So God's judgment of the world will begin in Jerusalem. In the Old Testament, the times of Jacob's trouble is not measured in the scale of the world, but solely in Israel. It will be the worst time Israel has faced since it's founding, not since the beginning of the world. The reason being is that it is dealing solely with Israel, and Israel did not exist before it was founded. Jesus uses a scale of world history, because it is an extensive tribulation that the whole world will face. However, its center will be in Jerusalem, where the antichrist will enthrone himself to spite God. You do not want to be in Jerusalem.
 
Don't add the nonexistent note for Matthew 24:24. It isn't there. Note the differences between Matthew 24 and Luke 21. In Matthew 24:
Matthew 24:
6 And you are going to hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8 But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pains.


9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 And at that time many will [c]fall away and will [d]betray one another and hate one another.

Luke 21:
"10 Then He continued saying to them, “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, 11 and there will be great earthquakes, and in various places famines and plagues; and there will be terrors and great [e]signs from heaven."


"12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, [f]bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake. ...

Now why does Jesus say they should run in Matthew 24? Is it because the desolation of Jerusalem is at hand? That isn't what Jesus says. He says:
"21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the [j]elect those days will be cut short."
He changes it up by speaking of tribulation that is measured in the scale of the WORLD, not Israel and Jerusalem. So God's judgment of the world will begin in Jerusalem. In the Old Testament, the times of Jacob's trouble is not measured in the scale of the world, but solely in Israel. It will be the worst time Israel has faced since it's founding, not since the beginning of the world. The reason being is that it is dealing solely with Israel, and Israel did not exist before it was founded. Jesus uses a scale of world history, because it is an extensive tribulation that the whole world will face. However, its center will be in Jerusalem, where the antichrist will enthrone himself to spite God. You do not want to be in Jerusalem.
Note: i snipped away much of the quoted section but kept some just to show a bit of context.
Thanks for responding. I thought this corner of the forum was going to be too quiet.
I have not seen anything significantly different between the two passages. I do not see a judgment of the world represented here. So I have to stick with what I posted.

One thing that seems possible here is that Luke shares some aspects of persecutions that pertain more directly to gentiles rather than details more focused on Jews. Matthew writes specific information critical to the Jewish context and culture.
 
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So basically the same, OK, it's different then what Luke recorded. In the first, the armies are surrounding the city. In Matthew 24, if we take Daniel's prophecies as a starting point, this is after armies have entered the city. So two different events again. The first, armies surrounding the city, the second, the enemy is already inside the gates. So why are they told to wait for the abomination of desolation? Could it be the peace that Daniel says presides over the start of the 70th week? It isn't until the middle of the week that we see the other time in Daniel's book about the abomination of desolation, where they come in, put an end to the sacrifice, and set up the abomination of desolation. (In that case, a pig sacrificed on the altar in the Holy of Holies.)
I am not responding to the Matt 24/Luke 21 point here. I am just uncertain what you are saying about the 70th week. I would have to check one guy's explanation of the timing of the seventy weeks. It may be that the week and half period is a separate timeline topic. It is unlikely that the God was extending the seventy weeks period for the Israel people's repentance seeing how the city and sanctuary indeed were destroyed. We have to remember that John the Baptist gave the warning of Mal 3 and 4:5 by warning the people to repent before their judgment and the start of the kingdom of God.
 
Note: i snipped away much of the quoted section but kept some just to show a bit of context.
Thanks for responding. I thought this corner of the forum was going to be too quiet.
I have not seen anything significantly different between the two passages. I do not see a judgment of the world represented here. So I have to stick with what I posted.

One thing that seems possible here is that Luke shares some aspects of persecutions that pertain more directly to gentiles rather than details more focused on Jews. Matthew writes specific information critical to the Jewish context and culture.
Jesus was clear when He said there was a great tribulation coming, such that it has no equal from the creation, to Jesus, until the end. This does not appear to be speaking of Israel alone, because the prophecies Jesus speaks to in the Old testament talk about the time of Jacob's trouble, which, is clearly limited in the Old Testament to the founding of Israel (goes back no further), until the end of time. Jesus is speaking of the world, thus speaks of world history. Luke speaks to the church persecution, Matthew speaks to the church persecution. The church was more Jewish in the beginning, but Gentiles were a part of it as well. I guess that persecution before the wars, earthquakes etc. and then wars, earthquakes, followed by persecution are the same? It is different. Notice what happens for the after show in Luke 21, and Matthew 24. In Luke 21 it is the Great Diaspora that didn't end until 1948. In Matthew it is immediately followed by Jesus coming back and gathering up the elect. In Luke 21, the Gentiles trample on Jerusalem until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. There is no such passage in Matthew 24, and one must not assume, considering the other differences already pointed out. Also, considering Jesus says of the tribulation that in Luke21 ended with people being put to the sword and exiled, and Jerusalem is trample, while in Matthew 24, immediately following those days (tribulation) Jesus returns and gathers His elect. And everyone see Him. You think that would have somehow made the local newspaper, or the history book.
 
Jesus was clear when He said there was a great tribulation coming, such that it has no equal from the creation, to Jesus, until the end. This does not appear to be speaking of Israel alone, because the prophecies Jesus speaks to in the Old testament talk about the time of Jacob's trouble, which, is clearly limited in the Old Testament to the founding of Israel (goes back no further), until the end of time. Jesus is speaking of the world, thus speaks of world history. Luke speaks to the church persecution, Matthew speaks to the church persecution. The church was more Jewish in the beginning, but Gentiles were a part of it as well. I guess that persecution before the wars, earthquakes etc. and then wars, earthquakes, followed by persecution are the same? It is different. Notice what happens for the after show in Luke 21, and Matthew 24. In Luke 21 it is the Great Diaspora that didn't end until 1948. In Matthew it is immediately followed by Jesus coming back and gathering up the elect. In Luke 21, the Gentiles trample on Jerusalem until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. There is no such passage in Matthew 24, and one must not assume, considering the other differences already pointed out. Also, considering Jesus says of the tribulation that in Luke21 ended with people being put to the sword and exiled, and Jerusalem is trample, while in Matthew 24, immediately following those days (tribulation) Jesus returns and gathers His elect. And everyone see Him. You think that would have somehow made the local newspaper, or the history book.
The gathering of the elect was the giving of everlasting righteousness to those Jews (and gentiles) who received the gospel message ahead of the destruction of Jerusalem. It was a gathering into his presence and protection into the unseen realm where no news reporters would have seen. Those who were scattered, as per Luke 21, were those effectively scattered for not accepting the gospel.
 
The gathering of the elect was the giving of everlasting righteousness to those Jews (and gentiles) who received the gospel message ahead of the destruction of Jerusalem. It was a gathering into his presence and protection into the unseen realm where no news reporters would have seen. Those who were scattered, as per Luke 21, were those effectively scattered for not accepting the gospel.
Wow. Um... no, no, not at all. Stop butchering the Bible. Do note that Jesus is clear that this is immediately AFTER the great tribulation, which has been said to be the destruction of Jerusalem. So no, it is not dealing with anything that happened before. And it clearly states that every eye will see Him.
"
29 `And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;

And, those who were scattered were scattered exactly as recorded in history by Josephus and others. The great diaspora that ended in 1948. They are still gathered, but the great diaspora speaks of the end of Israel as a nation with the expulsion of those who remained into the nations of the world. In 1948, against all odds, and in just one day, the nation was reborn, according to Old Testament prophecy.
 
Wow. Um... no, no, not at all. Stop butchering the Bible. Do note that Jesus is clear that this is immediately AFTER the great tribulation, which has been said to be the destruction of Jerusalem. So no, it is not dealing with anything that happened before. And it clearly states that every eye will see Him.
"
29 `And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from the heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken;
30 and then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in the heaven; and then shall all the tribes of the earth smite the breast, and they shall see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds of the heaven, with power and much glory;

And, those who were scattered were scattered exactly as recorded in history by Josephus and others. The great diaspora that ended in 1948. They are still gathered, but the great diaspora speaks of the end of Israel as a nation with the expulsion of those who remained into the nations of the world. In 1948, against all odds, and in just one day, the nation was reborn, according to Old Testament prophecy.
I think you are partially right. I maybe have the order wrong. I can fix small details when I have extra time or am writing in more detail.
 
I think you are partially right. I maybe have the order wrong. I can fix small details when I have extra time or am writing in more detail.
Understand, I am not fighting over who is right or wrong, so if I respond as I did above, you have stated something that is actually wrong. You will notice that I am not comign out to say that I am right, but correcting what was wrong. Once that has been done, then the discussion can be on what it may mean.
 
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