@civic @7xLightray Re: the connection, and Rev 13:18 the God they worship

[7xLightray]

This will not require the sorcery and magic of Numerology, pulling names out of a hat. That would be man choosing. God's word provides everything we need, to solve this mysterious puzzle, Rev 13:18, the number of the Beast. God provides the calculation, and the numbers, which produces a name. God gives us the name, and the number of his name.

I'll show you the first witness, the way I received it, before we get into Rev 13:18. It gives a nice quick visual witness, before getting into the longer math witness.
In Rev 13:1-2 how many beasts do you count? Keeping in mind what the Bible refers to as [four footed] beasts.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

I count 1 beast that comes up out of the sea, and 3 beasts that make up that one beast. Visualizing a 3-in-1 beast.

Are you with me, can we move unto the math?

 

[7xLightray]

@ sign followed with name of person

@civic @7xLightray

I don't think I tagged it right. Lets see if this works.

 

[civic]

I don't think I tagged it right. Lets see if this works.

It worked

 

[7xLightray]

It worked

Before I looked at Rev 13:18 and 1 Kings 10:14; 2 Chr 9:13 to double check the calculation, since I already knew those passages all to well, and knew how the math would work out, I instead first did a search for lion, leopard, and bear, and found..

Hos 13:7 Therefore I [Who is speaking? God!] will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
Hos 13:8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

God is going to be to His own people as, a lion, leopard, and bear (the 3 in 1 God, the Trinity, a false God. God is sending "a strong delusion") for going after other Gods, and forgetting Him. So, God is sending (or did send) the 3-in-1 God, the working of..you know who.."S....".

Rev 12 adds context to the rise of Rev 13:1-2, and it starts over (Rev 5:1 "written within and on the backside" (a Roman legal document was written with a summary on the outside of what was written on the inside. And written on the inside, was the details of the summary that was written on the outside)), repeating over again after the last trumpet Rev 10:7, 10. Starting from, Christ being raised to the throne (as in Rev 5:6), to the 3-in-1 beast rising up; and is now, history.

This is what God said He would send upon the church(es), for refusing to repent (Rev 2:20-23). And Christ said (Jn 12:31-32), "now is the judgment of this world," and "now shell the prince of this world be cast out." If judgment is coming upon this world (2 Thess 2), who are you sending? "S...." Rev 20:3, and then 20:7-10! If judgment is coming to this world, where is "S...." being cast from, and cast to? From heaven, to earth Rev 12:7-13! So, when was "S...." cast out? Rev 12:9, right between verses 6 and 14 (these verses referring to 70AD). And 1 Pet 4:17 also agrees, judgment is first coming upon the house of God, as Rev 20, and the O.T., also shows that God judges His people first.
So, to Rev 13:18.

KJV Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
ESV This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.

But, this is how it reads in the k.Greek..

Rev 13:18 Here ωδεG5602 ADV the ηG3588 T-NSF wisdom σοφιαG4678 N-NSF is/exists εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S
the [one] οG3588 T-NSM having εχωνG2192 V-PAP-NSM the τονG3588 T-ASM mind νουνG3563 N-ASM calculate ψηφισατωG5585 V-AAM-3S the τονG3588 T-ASM (reckoned up) number αριθμονG706 N-ASM of the τουG3588 T-GSN beast θηριουG2342 N-GSN
a (reckoned up) number αριθμοςG706 N-NSM for γαρG1063 CONJ a man ανθρωπουG444 N-GSM is/exists εστινG1510 V-PAI-3S and καιG2532 CONJ the οG3588 T-NSM (reckoned up) number αριθμοςG706 N-NSM of him αυτουG846 P-GSN 666 χξςG5516 A-NUI-ABB

Number (a reckoned up number) is interchangeable with the word total: Jn 6:10; acts 4:4; 5:36; 6:7; Rom 9:27; Rev 5:11; 7:4; 9:16; 20:8, to name a bunch.

I do not know what you know of k.Greek, so may you not be offended if you already know this, but I'll cut it sort.
When this word "αυτουG846" is in the Genitive, the Masculine and Neuter are spelt the same.
The Present Tense in k.Greek means a continuous action, but the Present Tense in the Indicative Mood means: a continuous action in the present time. As it is in Jn 8:58 "before Abraham was, I is/exist G1510 V-PAI-1S", saying, He was continually existing at that present time, before Abraham was born. There are two "is/exist G1510 V-PAI" in Rev 13:18, the second is the one I want to bring your attention to. Which the "number/total 666" of this man, is, presently, continually, existing, even at the time of writing. Which will make more sense, once we find out who this "number/total 666" belongs to.

And notice the difference when you reorder two words "for," and "is," plus add two words "it," and "the" to..
KJV ..for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
ESV ..for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.
..compared to..
A (reckoned up) number for a man is/exists and the (reckoned up) number of him 666.
And to smooth that out a bit, a total for a man exists and the total of him 666.
Not unless you were to translate it this way to keep the meaning the same: for a number of a man exists, and the number of him 666.

One is a clue of where to look, and find, the calculation. The other translation seems to connect this man's total to the beasts total, but a real problem emerges with this translation, it leaves us with nowhere to look of the calculation, and no way to calculate the number. That seems like a good reason to reject this translation, while, when simply leaving it as written, it points us to where to find the calculation.

The total 666, is not the total of the beast, it is the total of Solomon. A man, Solomon, with a total of 666 is a clue to the understanding of the calculation, for we are going to need to know how to calculate the total. So, we are going to want to know how Solomon calculated his 666. And, how did Solomon arrive at the total of 666? He added up the gold! And what calculation was put on that total of 666? In 1 year, annual income, which every merchant, or Tax payer, should know! 666-in-1y, or the total in 1.

Now, the only command we are given, is to "calculate the total of the beast!" That's it! So, notice, we are to reckon up, total up, the beast, then calculate it, or do both at the same time.
If we add up the beast, we get 1 beast, and 3 beasts, which make up that 1 beast. If we apply the calculation, we get 3-in-1 beast! The same as we can visualy see in Rev. 13:1-2.

What do you call a group of three? Trinity! What do you call a group of three in one? Trinity! What's the name of the 3-in-1 God? Trinity! What's the number/total of his name Rev 13:17? 3-in-1! 3-in-1 = "number of his name." 3-in-1 also = Trinity. Trinity = "name."

The beast is the 3 in 1 Trinity God, kingdom. Which overcomes the saints (and how do you overcome the saints, become one with them, and get them to eat ones false doctrine Rev 2:20-23, as Balaam taught)! Whom "S...." through Rome gave his power, his seat, and great authority to, the 3 in 1 God (I would take that to be around 400AD, by Theodosius I). Which these parabales touch on also: wheat and the tares; birds in the branches; Three measures of meal till all was leavened; the ten virgins, how many needed to be woken up? All of them!

And, this is why it be important to salvation Rev 14:9-11!

This was prophesied about in Genesis, it's even in our covenant Gen 15, the times of the Gentiles, and the terrifing dark dream (the Big Picture).
What would one expect to be said here; the midnight crier, "Wake up!" Even begging, "Wake up, not much time!"

Wake up, Remnant..
The Beast has you..
Follow the right Rock.
Knock, knock, Remnant.​

A major prophecy in our day, showing the all powerful God. What church would make this up about itself!
Rev 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

In the love of God our savior, and the Lord Jesus Christ His only begotten Son, who give His life for us.

 

[DavidTree]

Before I looked at Rev 13:18 and 1 Kings 10:14; 2 Chr 9:13 to double check the calculation, since I already knew those passages all to well, and knew how the math would work out, I instead first did a search for lion, leopard, and bear, and found..

Hos 13:7 Therefore I [Who is speaking? God!] will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
Hos 13:8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

God is going to be to His own people as, a lion, leopard, and bear (the 3 in 1 God, the Trinity, a false God. God is sending "a strong delusion") for going after other Gods, and forgetting Him. So, God is sending (or did send) the 3-in-1 God, the working of..you know who.."S....".

The beast is the 3 in 1 Trinity God, kingdom.

Are you saying the beast is the Elohim from Genesis, Who is THREE = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

 

[7xLightray]

Are you saying the beast is the Elohim from Genesis, Who is THREE = "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness"

Me, no, not saying that. I'm saying, they are going to believe that the only true God, the Father, who said, "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness," is a 3-in-1 God.

FATHER AND SON
TRINITY OR CHRIST'S DOCTRINE?
JUDGING FACT FROM FICTION​

The word "Us" is not a number, and the word "Us" does not mean 3, but It does mean more than 1. It could refer to 2,3,4, etc., or 100's, or 1000's, etc. It's a good argument to present to Oneness, or Unitarian, to show plurality, but the definition of 3 would not make it past verse 27. Where God made 2 in His image, and the second (Eve) was made from the first (Adam), as the doctrine of Christ taught "father and son," being two, and the second (a son; the Son) is made from the first (a father; the Father).

Adam's flesh is out of the earth:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Everyone believes this one verse.

Christ's flesh is out of heaven:
Jn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
It states here in Jn 6:51 the bread that came down from heaven is His flesh, explaining Jn 1:14.

Jn 8:23 He said to them, “You are from [G1537 out of, or out from; for example, look how Mat is clearly using this word Mat 1:3, 5, 6, 16, 18 (Wow!), 20 (isn't it the third out of the first and second persons)] below; I am from [G1537 out of, or out from] above. You are of [G1537 out of, or out from] this world; I am not of [G1537 out of, or out from] this world.

Here in Jn 8:41-42 the context is who is who's father, so Jesus speaks this way, stating that He actually came out of/from God, showing He literally is God's son. And that anyone that loves God should love God's son, which came out of Him, as much as they love God.
Jn 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Jn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth [notice G1831 is from G1537 and G2064, which both words are in this sentence] and came from [G1537 out of, or out from] God; neither cameG2064 I of myself, but he sent me.

THE BIG PICTURE
GENESIS REVELATION​

The 3-in-1 God, which God is sending, as the word of God said there would be days like these Hos 13:7-8; Jn 12:31; 2 Thess 2; Rev 2:22; 13:1-2, 18; 1 Jn 2:18, terrifying great dark days Gen 15:12, which is a prophecy concerning this age. From Joseph (Christ the Son) being raised to the throne (Gen 37 and 41; Rev 5 and 12) of Pharaoh (the Father, again two on the throne) of Egypt, to returning to Canaan.

It also strikingly shows that Egypt is a similitude of Rome (the fourth nation) that God's people (Joseph's brothers, whom Joseph saved) became one with (all the Egyptian Gentiles that were saved by Joseph in Egypt/Rome, which the church became one with Rev 2:22; 12:17; 13:7), and then had to be delivered from their Gods.

This was Joseph (Christ) who was sold, then handed over to the Egyptians (which was Rome whom Christ was handed over to), then raised to the throne while "Egypt/Rome" was ruling Rev 12, then they forgot about Joseph (Exodus 1:8). The red dragon (Rev 12) who said Lk 4:5-6 is also a kingdom, that gobbled up other kingdoms, which Christ turned down (Lk 4:8). And this kingdom transforms into the 3-in-1 beast kingdom, that the red dragon gave it his power, and his seat, and great authority to. And again, that was Rome (just before 400AD), but the churches started to become one, or crawling in bed with Rome, when Constantine embraced Christianity. Become one with them and get them to eat false doctrine, is how you (referring to the plural "you") overcome the saints.

Exodus also shows the same, when the mixed multitude after being delivered, then quickly turned to other Gods. And hear this, while Moses (Christ) delayed to come down out of the mount, Aaron, a high priest (bishop), for itchy ears (2Tim 4:3) made a God, out of earrings from their ears, saying, "These be thy Gods" and called it "LORD (JHWH)."

FATHER AND SON
JUDGING FACT FROM FICTION​

The Bible makes clear statements that the Father is the only true God (like Jn 17:3 (the 3 in 1 verse against the Trinity); Mark 12:32). And that Jesus is God's only literal son, born Man, therefore equal to God His father Jn 5:18, from whom He came. And Jesus confessed nothing more than that He is the literal son of God (Jn 10:30-38), which no one else can claim (all else are created sons, or adopted sons). Jesus made it clear He was not claiming He was the only true God Himself Jn 10:36; all He claimed was that He is the only true literal son of God. The only begotten son/Son of God; a father the Father! A father, or the Father, who is the first person, and a son, or the Son, being the second person (but right here, many would add "of the Trinity," but the third in this context would be Mary, whom He came out from, being her embryo, that God gave to her, as He gives all things to all).

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out [this is the word "entered" G1525 V-2AAI-3P The Aorist Tense (a one time action) in the Indicative Mood (making it Past Tense)] into the world, those who do not confess [G3670 V-PAP-NPM Present Tense (a continuous, or repeated, action) in the Participle Mood (+ing; a continuous action). So, the word is "confessing." And it should be understood as, they are not "continually," or "repeatedly," confessing "at present; hints to the past, and hints into the future." Hints to the future by the written warning to readers, and the continuous action; and in a lesser way hints to the past by the word "entered" Past Tense, and by his past knowledge of the situation] the coming [G2064 V-PNP-ASM Present Tense in the Participle Mood. So, a continuous coming (and into the future, until He arrives). Which would lean toward His now awaited coming, than a one time event that happened in the past, even if we included all: past, present, and future, it still means the same, except first, Christ came in flesh, but then he still continuously remains in flesh. Either way, it does not work out well for the Trinity doctrine when it comes to the coming in flesh, from Mary's flesh, or even from the spirit, the breath of God, referring to a resurrected spiritual body that is flesh, or becomes flesh, because it is also claimed God cant change in this way, or in any way] of Jesus Christ in the flesh.

This is how it literaly reads in k.Greek: "Because many deceivers entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh." Just to mention, It's not, "those not confessing Jesus Christ came (Past Tense) in flesh," but "coming in flesh."

The Trinity doctrine teaches Christ's flesh and blood came from Mary. Yet, Mary's flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. So, what flesh is Christ coming with? With different flesh, made of what, if it is not made of Mary's flesh, made from this earth, this world? Do you teach Christ was resurrected with a heavenly spiritual body? Do you teach Christ will return? How can God's "heavenly spiritual body" become flesh, if one also teaches God cannot change in this way? I don't need anyone to tell me the Trinity doctrine is incoherent, I can read for myself. Another example, try reading the Bible substituting the word "God" for "substance," or "essence," or "nature,"; for those who like to say things like, "The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are persons, and God is the substance that makes them one."

Again, how does a court judge fact from fiction.

Luke 12:20 But God/substance/essence/nature saidG649 unto him. -Incoherent, when referring to Trinity doctrine, because why is their substance speaking to anyone, when it is believed that it is the Holy Spirit person who speaks to us, in fact all three are persons.

Jn 3:17 For God/substance/essence/nature sentG649 not hisG848 Son into the world to condemn the world. -Incoherent. Substance/nature sent his own son?! I thought the Father sent the Son!
The highest Ruler, or Judge, or Lord, works well here, though. The word "God" refers to a person who has absolute rule over all things Gen 1:26; Psalm 82.

Trinity doctrine: Straight out of a Golden cup!

If one says God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Jesus Christ is the son of that God, then God the Son is both the son and father of Himself, and substance is the father of the Son, and Jesus has 4 fathers if we include "Substance," yet, there really are not 3 fathers, or a son, for they always existed as persons. -Totally incoherent. The story does not add up, and would be referred to as silly old wives' fables (G3454 fables; fiction; myth (a widely held but false belief or idea)). - Double vision!

God sent Christ. Christ is that God that sent Him, Yet, Jesus did not send himself, He did not come of His own! - Double vision!

Christ is God the person, God who cannot change (is the claim), who is perfect in knowledge and wisdom, grew in wisdom from an infant?! It is the person that grows in wisdom, not nature, and Christ is one person, not two. - Double vision!

1Jn 2:22 "..This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son."
Trinity doctrine deny a literal son of God (no father no son). You cannot be the son of any, if you always existed as a person! When it comes to the doctrine of the second person of the Trinity, the phrase "son of God" is nothing more than a title to distinguish between the three, because they always existed as persons!

2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ [..truly, every important..], does not have God [..Exodus 12:15, 19]. Whoever abides in the teaching [of Christ] has both the Father and the Son [is what Christ taught Jn 17:3; two persons, for all of eternity].
The Trinity doctrine goes beyond the doctrine of Christ, of father and son, denying the literal son of God, and adding a third person.

A turn of events, the Trinity is actually the biggest c_lt of them all Rev 13:1-2,18! Just look at it's history, and ya don't have to look very far. And all the churches shall know.
A message of salvation Rev 20:4-6, but what one does with it is upon their own head Rev 19:20-21; 20:5-6; 14:9-11.
May we choose wisely!

 

[DavidTree]

Me, no, not saying that. I'm saying, they are going to believe that the only true God, the Father, who said, "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness," is a 3-in-1 God.

FATHER AND SON
TRINITY OR CHRIST'S DOCTRINE?
JUDGING FACT FROM FICTION​

The word "Us" is not a number, and the word "Us" does not mean 3, but It does mean more than 1. It could refer to 2,3,4, etc., or 100's, or 1000's, etc. It's a good argument to present to Oneness, or Unitarian, to show plurality, but the definition of 3 would not make it past verse 27. Where God made 2 in His image, and the second (Eve) was made from the first (Adam), as the doctrine of Christ taught "father and son," being two, and the second (a son; the Son) is made from the first (a father; the Father).

Adam's flesh is out of the earth:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Everyone believes this one verse.

Christ's flesh is out of heaven:
Jn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
It states here in Jn 6:51 the bread that came down from heaven is His flesh, explaining Jn 1:14.

Jn 8:23 He said to them, “You are from [G1537 out of, or out from; for example, look how Mat is clearly using this word Mat 1:3, 5, 6, 16, 18 (Wow!), 20 (isn't it the third out of the first and second persons)] below; I am from [G1537 out of, or out from] above. You are of [G1537 out of, or out from] this world; I am not of [G1537 out of, or out from] this world.

Here in Jn 8:41-42 the context is who is who's father, so Jesus speaks this way, stating that He actually came out of/from God, showing He literally is God's son. And that anyone that loves God should love God's son, which came out of Him, as much as they love God.
Jn 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Jn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth [notice G1831 is from G1537 and G2064, which both words are in this sentence] and came from [G1537 out of, or out from] God; neither cameG2064 I of myself, but he sent me.

THE BIG PICTURE
GENESIS REVELATION​

The 3-in-1 God, which God is sending, as the word of God said there would be days like these Hos 13:7-8; Jn 12:31; 2 Thess 2; Rev 2:22; 13:1-2, 18; 1 Jn 2:18, terrifying great dark days Gen 15:12, which is a prophecy concerning this age. From Joseph (Christ the Son) being raised to the throne (Gen 37 and 41; Rev 5 and 12) of Pharaoh (the Father, again two on the throne) of Egypt, to returning to Canaan.

It also strikingly shows that Egypt is a similitude of Rome (the fourth nation) that God's people (Joseph's brothers, whom Joseph saved) became one with (all the Egyptian Gentiles that were saved by Joseph in Egypt/Rome, which the church became one with Rev 2:22; 12:17; 13:7), and then had to be delivered from their Gods.

This was Joseph (Christ) who was sold, then handed over to the Egyptians (which was Rome whom Christ was handed over to), then raised to the throne while "Egypt/Rome" was ruling Rev 12, then they forgot about Joseph (Exodus 1:8). The red dragon (Rev 12) who said Lk 4:5-6 is also a kingdom, that gobbled up other kingdoms, which Christ turned down (Lk 4:8). And this kingdom transforms into the 3-in-1 beast kingdom, that the red dragon gave it his power, and his seat, and great authority to. And again, that was Rome (just before 400AD), but the churches started to become one, or crawling in bed with Rome, when Constantine embraced Christianity. Become one with them and get them to eat false doctrine, is how you (referring to the plural "you") overcome the saints.

Exodus also shows the same, when the mixed multitude after being delivered, then quickly turned to other Gods. And hear this, while Moses (Christ) delayed to come down out of the mount, Aaron, a high priest (bishop), for itchy ears (2Tim 4:3) made a God, out of earrings from their ears, saying, "These be thy Gods" and called it "LORD (JHWH)."

FATHER AND SON
JUDGING FACT FROM FICTION​

The Bible makes clear statements that the Father is the only true God (like Jn 17:3 (the 3 in 1 verse against the Trinity); Mark 12:32). And that Jesus is God's only literal son, born Man, therefore equal to God His father Jn 5:18, from whom He came. And Jesus confessed nothing more than that He is the literal son of God (Jn 10:30-38), which no one else can claim (all else are created sons, or adopted sons). Jesus made it clear He was not claiming He was the only true God Himself Jn 10:36; all He claimed was that He is the only true literal son of God. The only begotten son/Son of God; a father the Father! A father, or the Father, who is the first person, and a son, or the Son, being the second person (but right here, many would add "of the Trinity," but the third in this context would be Mary, whom He came out from, being her embryo, that God gave to her, as He gives all things to all).

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out [this is the word "entered" G1525 V-2AAI-3P The Aorist Tense (a one time action) in the Indicative Mood (making it Past Tense)] into the world, those who do not confess [G3670 V-PAP-NPM Present Tense (a continuous, or repeated, action) in the Participle Mood (+ing; a continuous action). So, the word is "confessing." And it should be understood as, they are not "continually," or "repeatedly," confessing "at present; hints to the past, and hints into the future." Hints to the future by the written warning to readers, and the continuous action; and in a lesser way hints to the past by the word "entered" Past Tense, and by his past knowledge of the situation] the coming [G2064 V-PNP-ASM Present Tense in the Participle Mood. So, a continuous coming (and into the future, until He arrives). Which would lean toward His now awaited coming, than a one time event that happened in the past, even if we included all: past, present, and future, it still means the same, except first, Christ came in flesh, but then he still continuously remains in flesh. Either way, it does not work out well for the Trinity doctrine when it comes to the coming in flesh, from Mary's flesh, or even from the spirit, the breath of God, referring to a resurrected spiritual body that is flesh, or becomes flesh, because it is also claimed God cant change in this way, or in any way] of Jesus Christ in the flesh.

This is how it literaly reads in k.Greek: "Because many deceivers entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh." Just to mention, It's not, "those not confessing Jesus Christ came (Past Tense) in flesh," but "coming in flesh."

The Trinity doctrine teaches Christ's flesh and blood came from Mary. Yet, Mary's flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. So, what flesh is Christ coming with? With different flesh, made of what, if it is not made of Mary's flesh, made from this earth, this world? Do you teach Christ was resurrected with a heavenly spiritual body? Do you teach Christ will return? How can God's "heavenly spiritual body" become flesh, if one also teaches God cannot change in this way? I don't need anyone to tell me the Trinity doctrine is incoherent, I can read for myself. Another example, try reading the Bible substituting the word "God" for "substance," or "essence," or "nature,"; for those who like to say things like, "The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are persons, and God is the substance that makes them one."

Again, how does a court judge fact from fiction.

Luke 12:20 But God/substance/essence/nature saidG649 unto him. -Incoherent, when referring to Trinity doctrine, because why is their substance speaking to anyone, when it is believed that it is the Holy Spirit person who speaks to us, in fact all three are persons.

Jn 3:17 For God/substance/essence/nature sentG649 not hisG848 Son into the world to condemn the world. -Incoherent. Substance/nature sent his own son?! I thought the Father sent the Son!
The highest Ruler, or Judge, or Lord, works well here, though. The word "God" refers to a person who has absolute rule over all things Gen 1:26; Psalm 82.

Trinity doctrine: Straight out of a Golden cup!

If one says God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Jesus Christ is the son of that God, then God the Son is both the son and father of Himself, and substance is the father of the Son, and Jesus has 4 fathers if we include "Substance," yet, there really are not 3 fathers, or a son, for they always existed as persons. -Totally incoherent. The story does not add up, and would be referred to as silly old wives' fables (G3454 fables; fiction; myth (a widely held but false belief or idea)). - Double vision!

God sent Christ. Christ is that God that sent Him, Yet, Jesus did not send himself, He did not come of His own! - Double vision!

Christ is God the person, God who cannot change (is the claim), who is perfect in knowledge and wisdom, grew in wisdom from an infant?! It is the person that grows in wisdom, not nature, and Christ is one person, not two. - Double vision!

1Jn 2:22 "..This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son."
Trinity doctrine deny a literal son of God (no father no son). You cannot be the son of any, if you always existed as a person! When it comes to the doctrine of the second person of the Trinity, the phrase "son of God" is nothing more than a title to distinguish between the three, because they always existed as persons!

2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ [..truly, every important..], does not have God [..Exodus 12:15, 19]. Whoever abides in the teaching [of Christ] has both the Father and the Son [is what Christ taught Jn 17:3; two persons, for all of eternity].
The Trinity doctrine goes beyond the doctrine of Christ, of father and son, denying the literal son of God, and adding a third person.

A turn of events, the Trinity is actually the biggest c_lt of them all Rev 13:1-2,18! Just look at it's history, and ya don't have to look very far. And all the churches shall know.
A message of salvation Rev 20:4-6, but what one does with it is upon their own head Rev 19:20-21; 20:5-6; 14:9-11.
May we choose wisely!

Calling the Elohim of Genesis a "Beast' will surely send you you straight down - no where near UP.

The Trinity doctrine goes beyond the doctrine of Christ, of father and son, denying the literal son of God, and adding a third person.

Your statement above does not come from the Holy Spirit but it does come from not being able to see.

Who has been persuading you against the Truth of Elohim???

 

[7xLightray]

Calling the Elohim of Genesis a "Beast' will surely send you you straight down - no where near UP.

This is your second attempt. I did not call the Elohim of Genesis a "Beast," (and not by scripture either). I say, "Father and Son," others make Him the 3-in-1 Beast. The 3-in-1 Beast does not equal Father and Son, but it does equal the Trinity (the 3-in-1 God). Did you not notice that?

Your statement above does not come from the Holy Spirit but it does come from not being able to see.

Again, I do not wish to offend, but truly pointless to one who is more than confident in doctrine, who has a strong long foundation to stand on, not unless you can back up your word.

Actually, my doctrine came down from heaven in a powerful way, and woke me up from my sleep Matt 13:25-26; 25:5-7.
Do you not believe what is written in Mat 13:25-26 and 25:5-7?

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

How many fell asleep while waiting for Christ's return? All of them! And then woke up shortly before His return. This equals what I've been saying with other scripture.

..again..

But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

The tares appeared, because the crooked were made straight, and could now see straight (after they sprung up, and brought forth), knowing who walks with God and who does not.

Who has been persuading you against the Truth of Elohim???

I was taught by a powerful revelation from heaven, as Paul also wrote about. So, I know, for myself, with certainty, where my persuasion came from.

If you wish to correct me, correct me with scripture, please and thank you.
But to let you know, no one to this day has shown error in my doctrine, if you wish to do so, study my doctrine, and maybe you'll be the first.

 

[DavidTree]

This is your second attempt. I did not call the Elohim of Genesis a "Beast," (and not by scripture either). I say, "Father and Son," others make Him the 3-in-1 Beast. The 3-in-1 Beast does not equal Father and Son, but it does equal the Trinity (the 3-in-1 God). Did you not notice that?


Again, I do not wish to offend, but truly pointless to one who is more than confident in doctrine, who has a strong long foundation to stand on, not unless you can back up your word.

Actually, my doctrine came down from heaven in a powerful way, and woke me up from my sleep Matt 13:25-26; 25:5-7.
Do you not believe what is written in Mat 13:25-26 and 25:5-7?

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

How many fell asleep while waiting for Christ's return? All of them! And then woke up shortly before His return. This equals what I've been saying with other scripture.

..again..

But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

The tares appeared, because the crooked were made straight, and could now see straight (after they sprung up, and brought forth), knowing who walks with God and who does not.


I was taught by a powerful revelation from heaven, as Paul also wrote about. So, I know, for myself, with certainty, where my persuasion came from.

If you wish to correct me, correct me with scripture, please and thank you.
But to let you know, no one to this day has shown error in my doctrine, if you wish to do so, study my doctrine, and maybe you'll be the first.

others make Him the 3-in-1 Beast. The 3-in-1 Beast does not equal Father and Son, but it does equal the Trinity (the 3-in-1 God). Did you not notice that?

This is your 3rd attempt at calling the FATHER the SON the HOLY SPIRIT the "3-in-1" Beast.

Why are you doing the work of the Serpent who deceived Eve and brought the whole world into sin???

Genesis chapter 1 Begins with THREE
Genesis is the Foundation of ALL Truth that will follow.
Genesis Identifies Who the THREE are.

 

[civic]

Me, no, not saying that. I'm saying, they are going to believe that the only true God, the Father, who said, "Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness," is a 3-in-1 God.

FATHER AND SON
TRINITY OR CHRIST'S DOCTRINE?
JUDGING FACT FROM FICTION​

The word "Us" is not a number, and the word "Us" does not mean 3, but It does mean more than 1. It could refer to 2,3,4, etc., or 100's, or 1000's, etc. It's a good argument to present to Oneness, or Unitarian, to show plurality, but the definition of 3 would not make it past verse 27. Where God made 2 in His image, and the second (Eve) was made from the first (Adam), as the doctrine of Christ taught "father and son," being two, and the second (a son; the Son) is made from the first (a father; the Father).

Adam's flesh is out of the earth:
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Everyone believes this one verse.

Christ's flesh is out of heaven:
Jn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
It states here in Jn 6:51 the bread that came down from heaven is His flesh, explaining Jn 1:14.

Jn 8:23 He said to them, “You are from [G1537 out of, or out from; for example, look how Mat is clearly using this word Mat 1:3, 5, 6, 16, 18 (Wow!), 20 (isn't it the third out of the first and second persons)] below; I am from [G1537 out of, or out from] above. You are of [G1537 out of, or out from] this world; I am not of [G1537 out of, or out from] this world.

Here in Jn 8:41-42 the context is who is who's father, so Jesus speaks this way, stating that He actually came out of/from God, showing He literally is God's son. And that anyone that loves God should love God's son, which came out of Him, as much as they love God.
Jn 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
Jn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth [notice G1831 is from G1537 and G2064, which both words are in this sentence] and came from [G1537 out of, or out from] God; neither cameG2064 I of myself, but he sent me.

THE BIG PICTURE
GENESIS REVELATION​

The 3-in-1 God, which God is sending, as the word of God said there would be days like these Hos 13:7-8; Jn 12:31; 2 Thess 2; Rev 2:22; 13:1-2, 18; 1 Jn 2:18, terrifying great dark days Gen 15:12, which is a prophecy concerning this age. From Joseph (Christ the Son) being raised to the throne (Gen 37 and 41; Rev 5 and 12) of Pharaoh (the Father, again two on the throne) of Egypt, to returning to Canaan.

It also strikingly shows that Egypt is a similitude of Rome (the fourth nation) that God's people (Joseph's brothers, whom Joseph saved) became one with (all the Egyptian Gentiles that were saved by Joseph in Egypt/Rome, which the church became one with Rev 2:22; 12:17; 13:7), and then had to be delivered from their Gods.

This was Joseph (Christ) who was sold, then handed over to the Egyptians (which was Rome whom Christ was handed over to), then raised to the throne while "Egypt/Rome" was ruling Rev 12, then they forgot about Joseph (Exodus 1:8). The red dragon (Rev 12) who said Lk 4:5-6 is also a kingdom, that gobbled up other kingdoms, which Christ turned down (Lk 4:8). And this kingdom transforms into the 3-in-1 beast kingdom, that the red dragon gave it his power, and his seat, and great authority to. And again, that was Rome (just before 400AD), but the churches started to become one, or crawling in bed with Rome, when Constantine embraced Christianity. Become one with them and get them to eat false doctrine, is how you (referring to the plural "you") overcome the saints.

Exodus also shows the same, when the mixed multitude after being delivered, then quickly turned to other Gods. And hear this, while Moses (Christ) delayed to come down out of the mount, Aaron, a high priest (bishop), for itchy ears (2Tim 4:3) made a God, out of earrings from their ears, saying, "These be thy Gods" and called it "LORD (JHWH)."

FATHER AND SON
JUDGING FACT FROM FICTION​

The Bible makes clear statements that the Father is the only true God (like Jn 17:3 (the 3 in 1 verse against the Trinity); Mark 12:32). And that Jesus is God's only literal son, born Man, therefore equal to God His father Jn 5:18, from whom He came. And Jesus confessed nothing more than that He is the literal son of God (Jn 10:30-38), which no one else can claim (all else are created sons, or adopted sons). Jesus made it clear He was not claiming He was the only true God Himself Jn 10:36; all He claimed was that He is the only true literal son of God. The only begotten son/Son of God; a father the Father! A father, or the Father, who is the first person, and a son, or the Son, being the second person (but right here, many would add "of the Trinity," but the third in this context would be Mary, whom He came out from, being her embryo, that God gave to her, as He gives all things to all).

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out [this is the word "entered" G1525 V-2AAI-3P The Aorist Tense (a one time action) in the Indicative Mood (making it Past Tense)] into the world, those who do not confess [G3670 V-PAP-NPM Present Tense (a continuous, or repeated, action) in the Participle Mood (+ing; a continuous action). So, the word is "confessing." And it should be understood as, they are not "continually," or "repeatedly," confessing "at present; hints to the past, and hints into the future." Hints to the future by the written warning to readers, and the continuous action; and in a lesser way hints to the past by the word "entered" Past Tense, and by his past knowledge of the situation] the coming [G2064 V-PNP-ASM Present Tense in the Participle Mood. So, a continuous coming (and into the future, until He arrives). Which would lean toward His now awaited coming, than a one time event that happened in the past, even if we included all: past, present, and future, it still means the same, except first, Christ came in flesh, but then he still continuously remains in flesh. Either way, it does not work out well for the Trinity doctrine when it comes to the coming in flesh, from Mary's flesh, or even from the spirit, the breath of God, referring to a resurrected spiritual body that is flesh, or becomes flesh, because it is also claimed God cant change in this way, or in any way] of Jesus Christ in the flesh.

This is how it literaly reads in k.Greek: "Because many deceivers entered into the world, those not confessing Jesus Christ coming in flesh." Just to mention, It's not, "those not confessing Jesus Christ came (Past Tense) in flesh," but "coming in flesh."

The Trinity doctrine teaches Christ's flesh and blood came from Mary. Yet, Mary's flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. So, what flesh is Christ coming with? With different flesh, made of what, if it is not made of Mary's flesh, made from this earth, this world? Do you teach Christ was resurrected with a heavenly spiritual body? Do you teach Christ will return? How can God's "heavenly spiritual body" become flesh, if one also teaches God cannot change in this way? I don't need anyone to tell me the Trinity doctrine is incoherent, I can read for myself. Another example, try reading the Bible substituting the word "God" for "substance," or "essence," or "nature,"; for those who like to say things like, "The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are persons, and God is the substance that makes them one."

Again, how does a court judge fact from fiction.

Luke 12:20 But God/substance/essence/nature saidG649 unto him. -Incoherent, when referring to Trinity doctrine, because why is their substance speaking to anyone, when it is believed that it is the Holy Spirit person who speaks to us, in fact all three are persons.

Jn 3:17 For God/substance/essence/nature sentG649 not hisG848 Son into the world to condemn the world. -Incoherent. Substance/nature sent his own son?! I thought the Father sent the Son!
The highest Ruler, or Judge, or Lord, works well here, though. The word "God" refers to a person who has absolute rule over all things Gen 1:26; Psalm 82.

Trinity doctrine: Straight out of a Golden cup!

If one says God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that Jesus Christ is the son of that God, then God the Son is both the son and father of Himself, and substance is the father of the Son, and Jesus has 4 fathers if we include "Substance," yet, there really are not 3 fathers, or a son, for they always existed as persons. -Totally incoherent. The story does not add up, and would be referred to as silly old wives' fables (G3454 fables; fiction; myth (a widely held but false belief or idea)). - Double vision!

God sent Christ. Christ is that God that sent Him, Yet, Jesus did not send himself, He did not come of His own! - Double vision!

Christ is God the person, God who cannot change (is the claim), who is perfect in knowledge and wisdom, grew in wisdom from an infant?! It is the person that grows in wisdom, not nature, and Christ is one person, not two. - Double vision!

1Jn 2:22 "..This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son."
Trinity doctrine deny a literal son of God (no father no son). You cannot be the son of any, if you always existed as a person! When it comes to the doctrine of the second person of the Trinity, the phrase "son of God" is nothing more than a title to distinguish between the three, because they always existed as persons!

2Jn 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ [..truly, every important..], does not have God [..Exodus 12:15, 19]. Whoever abides in the teaching [of Christ] has both the Father and the Son [is what Christ taught Jn 17:3; two persons, for all of eternity].
The Trinity doctrine goes beyond the doctrine of Christ, of father and son, denying the literal son of God, and adding a third person.

A turn of events, the Trinity is actually the biggest c_lt of them all Rev 13:1-2,18! Just look at it's history, and ya don't have to look very far. And all the churches shall know.
A message of salvation Rev 20:4-6, but what one does with it is upon their own head Rev 19:20-21; 20:5-6; 14:9-11.
May we choose wisely!

you are not saying Joseph was literally Christ are you but that Joseph was a "type " of Christ in the Old Testament.

could you clarify that , thanks

 

[DavidTree]

This is your second attempt. I did not call the Elohim of Genesis a "Beast," (and not by scripture either). I say, "Father and Son," others make Him the 3-in-1 Beast. The 3-in-1 Beast does not equal Father and Son, but it does equal the Trinity (the 3-in-1 God). Did you not notice that?


Again, I do not wish to offend, but truly pointless to one who is more than confident in doctrine, who has a strong long foundation to stand on, not unless you can back up your word.

Actually, my doctrine came down from heaven in a powerful way, and woke me up from my sleep Matt 13:25-26; 25:5-7.
Do you not believe what is written in Mat 13:25-26 and 25:5-7?

While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

How many fell asleep while waiting for Christ's return? All of them! And then woke up shortly before His return. This equals what I've been saying with other scripture.

..again..

But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

The tares appeared, because the crooked were made straight, and could now see straight (after they sprung up, and brought forth), knowing who walks with God and who does not.


I was taught by a powerful revelation from heaven, as Paul also wrote about. So, I know, for myself, with certainty, where my persuasion came from.

If you wish to correct me, correct me with scripture, please and thank you.
But to let you know, no one to this day has shown error in my doctrine, if you wish to do so, study my doctrine, and maybe you'll be the first.

I was taught by a powerful revelation from heaven

Please share of this revelation you have.

 

[7xLightray]

This is your 3rd attempt at calling the FATHER the SON the HOLY SPIRIT the "3-in-1" Beast.

Why are you doing the work of the Serpent who deceived Eve and brought the whole world into sin???

Genesis chapter 1 Begins with THREE
Genesis is the Foundation of ALL Truth that will follow.
Genesis Identifies Who the THREE are.

I have provided scripture to defend my belief, you have not shown scripture to defend your belief. You also would have to show my doctrine to be in error, just as I have shown the Trinity doctrine to be in error, with scripture. Again if you wish to correct me, correct me with scripture, for I already have shown the word "Us" does not mean 3, or any specific number, but it does mean more than 1, then there is the very next verse, verse 27, keeping it in context.

Did all fall asleep while waiting for Christ's return? Did they need to be woken up just before He returned?

If one is in defense mode, one will not score. Working together to get the job done! If one wishes to overcome Oneness doctrine, or J.W., Unitarian, etc., one will need to become Oneness, or J.W., Unitarian, etc., without becoming Oneness, or J.W., Unitarian, etc., but thinking like Oneness, or J.W., Unitarian, etc., by knowing their doctrine. And, one will also have to know their own doctrine. If one wishes to teach.

 

[7xLightray]

you are not saying Joseph was literally Christ are you but that Joseph was a "type " of Christ in the Old Testament.

could you clarify that , thanks

May you not be offended for my explanation, if you already know these things, just trying to make absolutely clear.

No, I am not saying, Joseph was literally Christ, or is Christ, or ever will be Christ.
Yes, I am saying Joseph is only a type (a similitude/allegory/parable) of Christ, as Adam, Abraham; Isaac; Moses; David; Solomon; Cyrus; etc., to name only a few.

Hosea 12:10 I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets. As Paul used allegory/similitude.

Joseph who knew he was going to be raised to the throne, that even his own earthly father would bow down to him, hated by his brothers, sold, then handed over to the Egyptians, where he was falsely accused, locked in prison with two criminals, then raised to the throne, equal to Pharaoh on the throne (Gen 41:40), but under submission (Gen 41:40). - A similitude, allegory, parable, type.

 

[7xLightray]

Please share of this revelation you have.

Are you referring to the doctrine, or the experience? The doctrine, is some of what I have been saying, the Big Picture, Father and Son. There are also other topics, like love, salvation, temptation of our flesh, etc. The Bible reads straightforward now, for me, as it did before I first went to church (about 8 months) and was taught the Trinity. I still remember saying to myself in my mothers basement, after going to church for a few months, I have to unlearn something, cause the Bible has become confusing, only I did not know what it was. I did actual know what it was, I just did not know that I knew. Cause, when I first read the Gospel of John, I believe Jesus was the luckiest man ever born. He got to go to heaven to be with His father, and His father was God! How cool is that! I wished I was Him. Then I learnt the Trinity.

 

[Selah]

This will not require the sorcery and magic of Numerology, pulling names out of a hat. That would be man choosing. God's word provides everything we need, to solve this mysterious puzzle, Rev 13:18, the number of the Beast. God provides the calculation, and the numbers, which produces a name. God gives us the name, and the number of his name.

I'll show you the first witness, the way I received it, before we get into Rev 13:18. It gives a nice quick visual witness, before getting into the longer math witness.
In Rev 13:1-2 how many beasts do you count? Keeping in mind what the Bible refers to as [four footed] beasts.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

I count 1 beast that comes up out of the sea, and 3 beasts that make up that one beast. Visualizing a 3-in-1 beast.

Are you with me, can we move unto the math?

Hope I’m not interrupting, but I’m just not following you. A trinity?

Let’s begin with Revelation 13:1-2:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

- Revelation 13:1-2 (KJV)

There is a lot of symbolism used in Revelation ch.13. But that’s okay because God will explain it all in ch.17:12-15. The focus of ch.13, though, is a one-world system and Saran.

Take a look at Daniel 7:2-8. This is a political beast system we’re reading about:

And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

- Daniel 7:3-8 (KJV)

The leopard, the bear, and the lion are identified as separate beasts before the final beast with ten horns rises up and takes over.

 

[DavidTree]

Are you referring to the doctrine, or the experience? The doctrine, is some of what I have been saying, the Big Picture, Father and Son. There are also other topics, like love, salvation, temptation of our flesh, etc. The Bible reads straightforward now, for me, as it did before I first went to church (about 8 months) and was taught the Trinity. I still remember saying to myself in my mothers basement, after going to church for a few months, I have to unlearn something, cause the Bible has become confusing, only I did not know what it was. I did actual know what it was, I just did not know that I knew. Cause, when I first read the Gospel of John, I believe Jesus was the luckiest man ever born. He got to go to heaven to be with His father, and His father was God! How cool is that! I wished I was Him. Then I learnt the Trinity.

The doctrine, is some of what I have been saying, the Big Picture, Father and Son

The Father and Son is only 2/3 of the WHOLE PICTURE of Who Elohim is.

You are MISSING the other 1/3 which means your picture is skewed to the LEFT and is INCOMPLETE.

The Bible does read Straightforward and this Begins in Genesis chapter 1 with THREE.

Elohim who is THREE gives us the CLEAR and IRREFUTABLE Identification of the THREE that Equals Elohim in Genesis.

When was the last time you read Genesis ???

 

[7xLightray]

Hope I’m not interrupting, but I’m just not following you. A trinity?

Let’s begin with Revelation 13:1-2:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

- Revelation 13:1-2 (KJV)

There is a lot of symbolism used in Revelation ch.13. But that’s okay because God will explain it all in ch.17:12-15. The focus of ch.13, though, is a one-world system and Saran.

Take a look at Daniel 7:2-8. This is a political beast system we’re reading about:

And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

- Daniel 7:3-8 (KJV)

It's open, everyone is welcome.

Not just a God (Trinity) they worship, but more. The God (or beast) they worship is only one identifier from this beast.

Yes, I see, you did miss some, cause I did also say, it is the kingdom of Rome that the church became one with, and a God they worship. And also said the red dragon is Satan, well hear is a snippet..

"The red dragon (Rev 12) who said Lk 4:5-6 is also a kingdom, that gobbled up other kingdoms, which Christ turned down (Lk 4:8). And this kingdom transforms into the 3-in-1 beast kingdom, that the red dragon gave it his power, and his seat, and great authority to. And again, that was Rome (just before 400AD), but the churches started to become one, or crawling in bed with Rome, when Constantine embraced Christianity. Become one with them and get them to eat false doctrine, is how you (referring to the plural "you") overcome the saints."

Making it a political, religious, earthly and spiritual kingdom, and the God they worship. And this "God' is a identifier, besides the other things I've mentioned in my posts; like Rev 12 and Genesis, when Joseph (type Christ) was raised to the throne, while Egypt (type Rome) was ruling, which kingdom the red dragon rules Lk 4:5-6, and notice Rev 12:3-4 "Massacre of the Innocents," while Rome was ruling, matching Moses as a infant in Egypt). And then, on top of that are also heads and horns.

The leopard, the bear, and the lion are identified as separate beasts before the final beast with ten horns rises up and takes over.

In Daniel, in the days of the Jews, they were three separate kingdoms, that came and went, leading up to the fourth kingdom, but Revelation is written to the Churches. And now the beasts are described as one kingdom. They are not three full beasts. One beast made up of three beasts, is one beast, one kingdom. But this kingdom is more diverse than the others, and transforms with the times, from a red dragon beast (the Roman kingdom in Christ's day), to the 3-in-1 beast (the Church and Rome kingdom, with the other kingdoms the spiritual 3-in-1 beast joined to (Rev 2:22 "..cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her.." and Lk 4:5-6 all these kingdom), to a woman riding on the beast kingdom (today).

Maybe what may be helpful here, or just a reminder, is prophecy can be repeated/fulfilled more than once, Like Abrahams terrifying dark dream, fulfilled once by the Israelites, then again (though not yet complete) in Christ time, this age. And also helpful to understand about God's word is things like: Adam and Eve represent a image of God; themselves as the first created man and woman; Christ and the church (the great mystery); and Adam an antitype of Christ.

The "world," which Paul preached to every creature under heaven (Col 1:23), was the kingdom of Roman, as the Genesis Egypt also shows, of Joseph saving all those Gentile Egyptians in Egypt. It is also very helpful to understand that Rev 12 repeats over again, starting from when Christ was raised to the throne, and is all history now.

This maybe helpful, the gentile atheists, and like such, are not judged until after the thousand years (Rev 20:11-15). The "goats (Mat 25)," or the "clusters from the vine of the earth (Rev 14:18)" that are separated at the end of this age, are the tares in the Church (Mat 13:25, 30 here they are separated), unbelieving Christians. That is why there will still be people on earth for the thousand years. The word nationsG1484 is the same word for GentilesG1484. And if we look at the Genesis Egypt, it was the Egyptian Gentiles that became one with God's people, which Egyptians were judged at the end. And other Egyptians became a mixed multitude.

As it says,
Declaring the end [Revelation] from the beginning [Genesis], and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isa 46:10

 

[7xLightray]

The Father and Son is only 2/3 of the WHOLE PICTURE of Who Elohim is.

You are MISSING the other 1/3 which means your picture is skewed to the LEFT and is INCOMPLETE.

The Bible does read Straightforward and this Begins in Genesis chapter 1 with THREE.

Elohim who is THREE gives us the CLEAR and IRREFUTABLE Identification of the THREE that Equals Elohim in Genesis.

When was the last time you read Genesis ???

So you have what you believe.
But do you really believe coming with no scripture would convince yourself?

 

[Selah]

Wake up, Remnant..
The Beast has you..
Follow the right Rock.
Knock, knock, Remnant.

…but the remnant will never be deceived.

But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

- Romans 11:4-5 (KJV)

 

[Selah]

Not just a God (Trinity) they worship, but more. The God (or beast) they worship is only one identifier from this beast.

Greetings…. There are two beasts mentioned in the book of Revelation, chapter 13. The first beast mentioned is in 13:1. This is a multi-headed governmental one-world political system. The second beast mentioned is in 13:5-8, 11. This beast is that dragon of old; he is the Antichrist and his name is Satan. I used blue to indicate the first beast and green to indicate the second beast. Here’s my understanding:

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

- Revelation 13:1-8,11-18 (KJV)