Are Christians Sabbatarian?

[TomL]

@jeremiah1five @TomL

Well HELLO! Tom is a NT believer, he's right where he needs to be! We will take Christ over Moses any day of the week.

John 1:17​

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”

Amen and salvation is not by the law of Moses but by faith in Christ.

 

[TomL]

You're stuck in the New Testament. You can't post Old Testament where the type and shadow are because you don't believe in type and shadow.

Um, I posted Old Testament verses, which you also ignored.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Animal sacrifices are not a part of the New covenant

And sins are remitted in association with and not denial of Christ

Romans 3:23–25 (LEB) — 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

Acts 10:43 (LEB) — 43 To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Romans 5:1 (LEB) — 1 Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Galatians 2:16 (LEB) — 16 but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

But you still want to sacrifice animals

No they are not. Jesus died once and for all for the sins of Israel.
I want you to notice how many Gentiles are in the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah.

Count how many Gentiles God forgives.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:31–34.

How many Gentiles did God forgive in this passage that describes the New Covenant.
How many Gentiles did God forgive in this New Covenant between God and Israel?

How many?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Um you ignored even Old Testament verses as well as many New Testament ones

Shucks.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Um, I posted Old Testament verses, which you also ignored.

Darn it.

 

[TomL]

Darn it.

Yeah

 

[TomL]

Shucks.

Certainly

 

[TomL]

No they are not. Jesus died once and for all for the sins of Israel.
I want you to notice how many Gentiles are in the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah.

Count how many Gentiles God forgives.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
In the day that I took them by the hand
To bring them out of the land of Egypt;
Which my covenant they brake,
Although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:31–34.

How many Gentiles did God forgive in this passage that describes the New Covenant.
How many Gentiles did God forgive in this New Covenant between God and Israel?

How many?

How is it you ignore the Gentiles being made of one body with believing Jews

1 Corinthians 12:12–20 (LEB) — 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of the body, although they are many, are one body, thus also Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” not because of this is it not a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” not because of this is it not a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body just as he wanted. 19 And if they all were one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body.

Fellow citizens


Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

You are disobedient to God, who states

1 Corinthians 12:21–26 (LEB) — 21 Now the eye is not able to say to the hand, “I do not have need of you,” or again, the head to the feet, “I do not have need of you.” 22 But by much more the members of the body which are thought to be weaker are necessary, 23 and the parts of the body which we think to be less honorable, these we clothe with more abundant honor, and our unpresentable parts come to have more abundant presentability, 24 but our presentable parts do not have need of this. Yet God composed the body by giving more abundant honor to the part which lacked it, 25 in order that there not be a division in the body, but the members would have the same concern for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer together; if a member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

and BTW

Romans 11:7–11 (LEB) — 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, and a cause for stumbling and a retribution to them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they do not see, and cause their backs to bend continually.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so that they fell, did they? May it never be! But by their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy.

 

[jeremiah1five]

How is it you ignore the Gentiles being made of one body with believing Jews

1 Corinthians 12:12–20 (LEB) — 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of the body, although they are many, are one body, thus also Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” not because of this is it not a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” not because of this is it not a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body just as he wanted. 19 And if they all were one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body.

Fellow citizens


Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

You are disobedient to God, who states

1 Corinthians 12:21–26 (LEB) — 21 Now the eye is not able to say to the hand, “I do not have need of you,” or again, the head to the feet, “I do not have need of you.” 22 But by much more the members of the body which are thought to be weaker are necessary, 23 and the parts of the body which we think to be less honorable, these we clothe with more abundant honor, and our unpresentable parts come to have more abundant presentability, 24 but our presentable parts do not have need of this. Yet God composed the body by giving more abundant honor to the part which lacked it, 25 in order that there not be a division in the body, but the members would have the same concern for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer together; if a member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

and BTW

Romans 11:7–11 (LEB) — 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, and a cause for stumbling and a retribution to them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they do not see, and cause their backs to bend continually.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so that they fell, did they? May it never be! But by their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy.

You're a waste of my time and effort. You don't respond to the original Scripture where the issue is found and instead want to regurgitate your crap and not reply to my comments. I put work into my comments and you just ignore the Scripture I post that supports my comments.
Now, I won't be responding anymore to you. You're a wast of my time and effort. Any intelligent person would try to find flaws in my positions but except you. You just drone on in the NT and not look at the original subject in the OT and what Scripture say. You continueously repeat your NT passages and don't try to tear my positions apart. This shows me you're not a thinker. You only post textbook answers I in my own studies have gone beyond.
Later.

 

[TomL]

You're a waste of my time and effort. You don't respond to the original Scripture where the issue is found and instead want to regurgitate your crap and not reply to my comments. I put work into my comments and you just ignore the Scripture I post that supports my comments.
Now, I won't be responding anymore to you. You're a wast of my time and effort. Any intelligent person would try to find flaws in my positions but except you. You just drone on in the NT and not look at the original subject in the OT and what Scripture say. You continueously repeat your NT passages and don't try to tear my positions apart. This shows me you're not a thinker. You only post textbook answers I in my own studies have gone beyond.
Later.

Totally laughable

All the scriptures I posted showed the ingrafting of the gentiles, and you just ignored it

How is it you ignore the Gentiles being made of one body with believing Jews

1 Corinthians 12:12–20 (LEB) — 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of the body, although they are many, are one body, thus also Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free persons, and all were made to drink one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” not because of this is it not a part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” not because of this is it not a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body just as he wanted. 19 And if they all were one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body.

Fellow citizens


Ephesians 2:11–22 (LEB) — 11 Therefore remember that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh, the so-called uncircumcision by the so-called circumcision in the flesh, made by hands, 12 that you were at that time apart from Christ, alienated from the citizenship of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, not having hope, and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you, the ones who once were far away, have become near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who made both one and broke down the dividing wall of the partition, the enmity, in his flesh, 15 invalidating the law of commandments in ordinances, in order that he might create the two in himself into one new man, thus making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in himself. 17 And coming, he proclaimed the good news of peace to you who were far away and peace to the ones who were near, 18 because through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 Consequently, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but you are fellow citizens of the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are built up together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

You are disobedient to God, who states

1 Corinthians 12:21–26 (LEB) — 21 Now the eye is not able to say to the hand, “I do not have need of you,” or again, the head to the feet, “I do not have need of you.” 22 But by much more the members of the body which are thought to be weaker are necessary, 23 and the parts of the body which we think to be less honorable, these we clothe with more abundant honor, and our unpresentable parts come to have more abundant presentability, 24 but our presentable parts do not have need of this. Yet God composed the body by giving more abundant honor to the part which lacked it, 25 in order that there not be a division in the body, but the members would have the same concern for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer together; if a member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

and BTW

Romans 11:7–11 (LEB) — 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened, 8 just as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear, until this very day.” 9 And David says, “Let their table become a snare and a trap, and a cause for stumbling and a retribution to them; 10 let their eyes be darkened so that they do not see, and cause their backs to bend continually.” 11 I say then, they did not stumble so that they fell, did they? May it never be! But by their trespass, salvation has come to the Gentiles, in order to provoke them to jealousy.

Rather pathetic, I would say

Disobedient to the word of God as well.

BTW just who do you think you are telling God he cannot bring Gentiles into his covenant?

 

[Soyeong]

Are Christians Sabbatarian?

In the OT there is a certain word that we can draw a wonderful, important truth from and learn a valuable lesson from it, and it is......... "Nehushtan!"
2nd Kings 18:4
“He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.”

Israel became discouraged on the way to Canaan and complained against God and Moses, so the LORD sent fiery serpents among them, which bit and killed many. When the living repented and begged for mercy, God told Moses to make a brass replica of a fiery serpent and put it on a pole. If any person bitten by a fiery serpent looked at the brass serpent, he would live. Moses did as God told him, and Israel survived by looking at the brass serpent. See Number 21:4-9 for the whole history.

The superstitious Jews foolishly presumed this brass serpent Moses had made would have residual religious value, so they worshipped it for another 800 years! When the godly and righteous King Hezekiah reformed the nation, he found this religious relic and finally destroyed it. When he destroyed it, he mocked it with a name, Nehushtan! A mere thing of brass!

The Jewish Sabbath, taken out of its place as part of Old Testament ceremonial worship for Israel only, is just a day of the week now, no different than Monday thru Friday. Nehushtan! It is only a day of the week! It has no value; it has no power; it has no role; it is a snare to the ignorant and superstitious. Just as the brasen serpent made by Moses for that time period and situation. Leave it to Israel under the Old Testament, where it belong, it is Nehushtan for NT Christian, it has served it purpose for which it was given, and even Israel did not fully comprehend their own Sabbath restrictions and use it for their own advantage when it served for their purpose and judge others of breaking it even when they did acts of mercy, and even doing responsibilities acts that had to be done, but, the religious being governed by their own wicked hearts and not the word of God think nothing of pleasing self when what they are doing is for them, but are quick to judge their fellow man when they do acts of mercy. They forget that the man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man profit and well being.

Christian or Sabbatarian? One cannot be both. Let us discuss if one can be both, which we know you cannot be a NT Christian and live under the Jewish Sabbath days, and to add to that error, expect other to do the same, and then judge them not to be of God for not doing so.

So, the burden of proof lays squarely on the Sabbatarians shoulders to prove that we are under Moses' Law of the Sabbaths days. I say Nehushtan! It is nothing for us under the NT. The profit of the seven day Sabbath of rest we can benefit of resting our bodies, as much as we can at least one out of seven days, whatever that day be for the reader, just as we rest our fields by rotating planting crops by resting a certain portion one out of seven years, that a wise farmer fearing God knows to do.

It is one thing for you to arbitrarily declare that the Sabbath is Nehushtan and quite another thing for that to actually be the case. God's law was given to Israel in order to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the Gentiles by turning them from their wickedness and by teaching them to obey it in accordance with promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom. In Isaiah 56:1-8, the Sabbath is also for foreigners who joined themselves to the Lord, so it was never intended to be excuse to Israel.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message, which includes repenting from breaking the Sabbath. Jesus also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, which included keeping the Sabbath holy, and we are told to follow his example (! Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey God's law by word and by example and being a follower of Christ is about being a followers of what he taught, not about declaring that following him is Nehushtan. It is absurd to think that we can't be both a follower of Christ and a follower of Christ's example.

Sabbath was made for man, so it a a priceless gift that God made for us for our own good, which we should not spurn.

Christian or Sabbatarianism, you "cannot be both", or even try to blend them into a perfect marriage, for God has never joined the two together and never will. Paul gave us a warning that any wise, sincere, lover of Jesus Christ's gospel must heed. He calls men who have confidence in their flesh, and trust their flesh to be able to please God apart from totally trusting in the cross of Jesus Christ for their "only" right to enter into eternal life in the world to come "as dogs"! Always barking at the heels of the men and women who put their trust solely in Jesus' faith and obedience as their surety to enter into eternal life. Paul said BEWARE of these evil workers. workers still cleaving to the OT works of the flesh.

True servants of God are those men and women who worship God in the spirit, while rejoicing in Jesus Christ fulfilling the law in their place, being unable to do so themselves, because of the weakness of their sinful flesh being unable to do any works in flesh that could be accepted by the God as a fulfillment of the deeds of the law, since, even plowing of the wicked is sinful not being done in faith trusting God for the results!

Proverbs 21:4​

“An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.”

Everything a wicked man does is sin. God rejects his looks, heart, actions. He is deeper in trouble every day (Romans 2:5). Even innocent things like his plowing are sin, if not done in faith. (Titus 1:15,15). God once drowned the world when He saw man’s every thought was evil (Genesis 6:5).

Christians follow and glorify the Lord Jesus Christ ~ not Moses, not Israel, not the Law, not the Jewish Sabbath. Exalting these pitiful substitutes that passed away long ago rejects and dishonors Jesus Christ. Sunday, the Lord’s Day, is a weekly privilege to glorify Jesus Christ on the day He ordained for worship. Christians always take N.T. ordinances and tradition over O.T. ceremonial or national laws.

Later, much more to come

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to trust in the cross is Christ is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law, which includes keeping the Sabbath holy, while the lawlessness that you are advocating is the way to reject what Jesus accomplished through the cross. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit the gift of eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of God's law. In Galatians 5:19-21, everything that Paul listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against God's law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are in accordance with it. Likewise, in Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law.

Nowhere does the Bible state that Jesus removed his gift of salvation from us by fulfilling the law for us in our place. The same God who graciously gave the law to Moses also sent Jesus to graciously teaching us how to walk in obedience to it by word and by example, so there is no disagreement. It is contradictory to think that Christians should follow God's Word made flesh instead of God's Word. It is absurd to think that the way to dishonor Christ is by following his example. Nowhere does the Bible state that Christ ordained Sunday as the day of worship instead of obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy. Jesus quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so it is contradictory to think that we should follow Christ instead of every word that comes from the mouth of God.