Abraham

[Seabass]

Ive told you many times b4, the condition is the Obedience of Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Now does it so by the obedience of two or three shall many be made righteous ? Yes or No

The verse does not say what you claim it does. Rom 5:18-19 do not say because of Christ's obedience in going to the cross makes men righteous no more than it say because of Adam's sin men are made sinners.

Christ's obedience in going to the cross would not have saved Noah from the flood had Noah disobeyed God. Christ's obedience would not have healed Naaman had he refused to dip in the river 7 times. Christ's obedience would not justify Abraham had he disobeyed by not leaving house land kindred or offer Issac. Christ's obedience would not give Israel possession of Jerich had they disobeyed by not marching around city and blowing horn. Christ's obedience would not save the Jews in ACts had they disobeyed by not repenting and being baptized. Christ's obedience would not justified those Roans had they disobeyed by no obeying from the heart.

Christ's obedience does not mean man has to do nothing in order to be righteous. The Jews in Acts 2 when they asked what shall we do were not told to 'do nothing for Christ has already done it for you'. The benefit of Christ's obedience is available to all men (Tts 2:11) but all men will not receive that benefit for all will not obey. There is no justification by proxy.

Therefore, Christ’s obedience provides the means of righteousness, which is applied to those who obey, rather than automatically making all people righteous regardless of their response.

 

[brightfame52]

The verse does not say what you claim it does. Rom 5:18-19 do not say because of Christ's obedience in going to the cross makes men righteous no more than it say because of Adam's sin men are made sinners.

Yes it does, both Rom 5:18-19 show how Christs one act of obedience or righteousness made some righteous. Justified.

 

[Seabass]

Yes it does, both Rom 5:18-19 show how Christs one act of obedience or righteousness made some righteous. Justified.

No,


The benefits of Christ's obedience is available to all who have been 'bitten' by sin and conditionally receive that benefit by obedience. Much like the benefits of the bronze serpent was made to all bitten by a poisonous serpent and conditionally received that benefit by obedience in going and looking upon the bronze serpent.

Christ's obedience saves no one who will not comply with His will.....why call ye ME Lord Lord and do not the things that I say. Lk 6:46

 

[brightfame52]

No,

Yes. You are flat out denying Rom 5:19 they shall be made righteous following the obedience of one Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Thats the Christian Faith

The benefits of Christ's obedience is available to all who have been 'bitten' by sin and conditionally receive that benefit by obedience.

Thats satanic garbage !

 

[Seabass]

Yes. You are flat out denying Rom 5:19 they shall be made righteous following the obedience of one Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Thats the Christian Faith

Thats satanic garbage !

--The context does not say made righteous UNCONDITONALLY.

--No verse says 'Christ obeyed therefore man does not have to obey'.

--Those that obey the Lord's will are the ones who benefit receiving the grace He has offered. Heb 5:9; Christ saves those who obey Him not those who disobey Him.

 

[brightfame52]

--The context does not say made righteous UNCONDITONALLY.

It says they shall be made righteous, by the obedience of one The condition was Jesus obedience Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Paul used the prep dia By which means

1. 1. of means
      
      1. by
      2. by the means of
2. through
   
   1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account

Denoting the efficient cause !

 

[Seabass]

It says they shall be made righteous, by the obedience of one The condition was Jesus obedience Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Paul used the prep dia By which means

1. 1. of means
      1. by
      2. by the means of
2. through
   1. the ground or reason by which something is or is not done
      1. by reason of
      2. on account of
      3. because of for this reason
      4. therefore
      5. on this account

Denoting the efficient cause !

The idea of "UNCONDITIONALLY made" is not in the verses....all are NOT unconditionally made sinners by Adam (no original sin) as that same all are not unconditionally made righteous by Christ (Universalism). It does NOT say by the obedience of Christ many will be UNconditionally made righteous.

Rom 5:17
"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)"

Grace/being made righteous is something men must receive conditionally through obedience, with 'received' being the condition.



SO BY THE MEANS OF Christ's obedience in going to the cross makes it possible for people to be made righteous but does not unconditionally make anyone righteous apart from conditionally obeying Christ.

Why would Peter tell those Jews to repent and be baptized if Christ already conditionally obeyed for them? By commanding those Jews in repenting and being baptized, obeying those commands is how they would conditionally receive grace/remission of sins. It was those that gladly received (received by choice) Peter's words were the ones added to the church/saved.

Christ death on the cross is the basis for men being made righteous but righteousness is received by obedience..."obedience unto righteousness" Rom 6:16. "Not every one that sayeth unto ME Lord Lord shall enter the kingdom but he that doeth the will of My Father" (Mt 7:21). One receives grace conditionally through obedience in doing the Lord's will. Christ did no obey in going to the cross so men can remain disobedient and be UNconditionally saved while living in rebellion, defiance to is will.

 

[brightfame52]

The idea of "UNCONDITIONALLY made" is not in the verses..

The condition required to make them righteous was the active and passive obedience of Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Seabass]

The condition required to make them righteous was the active and passive obedience of Christ Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

No, you create problems and contradictions among verses with your "interpretation" of Rom 5:17-19....

----if by Adam's disobedience all are UNconditionally UNIVERSALLY made sinners (which falsely teaches original sin) then likewise by Christ's obedience that same all will be UNconditionally UNIVERSALLY made righteous, that is falsely teaching Universalism.

----you continue to ignore all the verses that require obedience BEFORE justification as Rom 6:16-18, that justification is CONDITIONAL upon faith Gal 3:8; Rom 5:1, people are justified by obedient works James 2:24-25.

----no one is justified by doing nothing. No one is justified while continuing to live in disobedience, rebellion to God's will and Christ's obedience will never unconditionally justify the person who does nothing but live in rebellion to God.

----no verse teaches that Christ obedience is unconditionally 'transferred' to the rebellious disobedient person whereby he is then seen as righteous by God while having not obeyed God''s will. Obedience is not an abstract idea or disease that is unconditionally transferred from one person to another.

 

[brightfame52]

No, you create problems and contradictions among verses with your "interpretation" of Rom 5:17-19....

No you create problems. Jesus obedience makes many righteous, saved Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[brightfame52]

-if by Adam's disobedience all are UNconditionally UNIVERSALLY made sinners (which falsely teaches original sin) then likewise by Christ's obedience that same all will be UNconditionally UNIVERSALLY made righteous, that is falsely teaching Universalism.

If I havent already told you, Im telling you now, Rom 5 is only about the Church, the Body of Christ or the elect.

 

[Seabass]

No you create problems. Jesus obedience makes many righteous, saved Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Again, you fail to deal with problems and contradictions your bad interpretations create.

 

[Seabass]

If I havent already told you, Im telling you now, Rom 5 is only about the Church, the Body of Christ or the elect.

Paul is dealing with justification in Rom 5 and the result of being justified...'peace with God" (v1) "reconciled to God" (v10) "joy in God" (v11).


Verse 12 onward Paul gives a summary in the contrast in what Adam brought to the world versus what Christ brought to the world and the universal implication of both.

 

[brightfame52]

Again, you fail to deal with problems and contradictions your bad interpretations create.

Them your problems not mine !

 

[brightfame52]

Paul is dealing with justification in Rom 5 and the result of being justified...'peace with God" (v1) "reconciled to God" (v10) "joy in God" (v11).


Verse 12 onward Paul gives a summary in the contrast in what Adam brought to the world versus what Christ brought to the world and the universal implication of both.

Romans 5 is about the Elect, none of it is about mankind. Look who he is writing to Rom 1:6-8

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

Paul is describing the experience of Grace the elect had in their two different Federal Heads in Rom 5. It has not anything to do with the non elect