civic
Active Member
PTL !
A Favorite Reformed Doctrine
- Thread starter The Rogue Tomato
- Start date
Johann
Active Member
Very obvious-like a sore thumb-you are not familiar with the Morphology and Syntax of our Koine Greek |Bible-and I have proven, by Scriptures, the absurdity of your statements-no offense. Calvinism is a stronghold and very difficult to bid it Adieu.
Have a good day.
or the particular context
Tasso is used here translated devoted
1 Corinthians 16:15 (ESV) — 15 Now I urge you, brothers—you know that the household of Stephanas were the first converts in Achaia, and that they have devoted themselves to the service of the saints—
appointed here
(MLV2021) Now you° know the house of Stephanas, that it is the first-fruit of Achaia and that they have appointed themselves into the service *for the holy-ones. I encourage you° brethren,
Taso is not the word used in Acts 13: 48. It is the root word but not the actual word. Words mean things.
Devoted themselves and appointed themselves are two different things. What does it say in the KJV?
civic
Active Member
Ditto
civic
Active Member
Not a single verse in scripture ever says that as you made it up.
Not according to scripture
scripture shows otherwise
Regeneration by definition is the impartation of life
The following verses show faith precedes life
John 5:24 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Regeneration makes one a child of God. Born of God -
One is made a child of God through faith
John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.
Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection.
We are raised spiritually through faith
Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
One is born again(regenerated) through faith in gospel
James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation
Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
it is through faith we are saved
EPH 2:8 (KJV)
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
.
Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
which requires both faith and repentance
Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Nothing good comes the flesh.
Spirit gives birth to Spirit.
No one calls Christ Lord but by the Spirit.
hope this helps
civic
Active Member
Amazing how a person can deny those 30 scriptures you just posted and believe the false teachings of a man named Calvin instead of Jesus and the Apostles. It boggles the mind to say the least.
Romans 7:18. Nothing good dwells in the flesh
John 3:6 flesh gives birth to flesh and Spirit gives birth to Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:3 "no one can call Christ Lord but by the Spirit"
The Tiber and the De Nile. Good swimmer?
We can settle this rather east. You agree being born again is regeneration right???
So where in scripture are imored to choose to be born again? Where is it presented as a choice?
civic
Active Member
Johann
Active Member
What is Taso?
ακουοντα δε τα εθνη εχαιρον και εδοξαζον τον λογον του κυριου και επιστευσαν οσοι ησαν τεταγμενοι εις ζωην αιωνιον
Act 13:48 And δὲ the τὰ Gentiles ἔθνη hearing [it] Ἀκούοντα were rejoicing ἔχαιρον and καὶ glorifying ἐδόξαζον the τὸν word λόγον of the τοῦ Lord, Κυρίου, and καὶ as many as ὅσοι were ἦσαν appointed τεταγμένοι to εἰς eternal αἰώνιον· life ζωὴν believed. ἐπίστευσαν
tassō
8x: to arrange; to set, appoint, in a certain station, Luk_7:8; Rom_13:1; to set, devote, to a pursuit, 1Co_16:15; to dispose, frame, for an object, Act_13:48; to arrange, appoint, place or time, Mat_28:16; Act_28:23; to allot, assign, Act_22:10; to settle, decide, Act_15:2.
Mounce.
3) "And as many as were ordained to eternal life," (kai hosoi esan tetagmenoi eis zoen aionion) "And as many as were (had been) convicted deeply, inclined, or inclined to eternal life;" As many as had been prepared by the message and the spirit, at the message just delivered by Paul, of their own volition, accord, or choice, Pro_1:22-23; Joh_1:11-12.
4) "Believed." (episteusan) "They believed," trusted, or were saved, when they believed, after the word was preached, Mar_1:15; Act_16:31; Rom_1:15-16. This passage emphatically indicates that as many as had been "inclined, disposed, or deeply convicted with reference to" (Gk. eis) eternal life, believed. It does not indicate that these "as many as" were "prefixed," "predestined" or "pre- regenerated" in eternity, believed on that day as some erroneously teach. It indicates and affirms that only such as were convicted by the Holy Spirit that accompanied the apostles' preaching that day were convicted and believed "that day" unto eternal life, 1Jn_5:13.
Acts 13:48, REV Bible and Commentary
Acts 13:48 REV and Commentary - Now when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorified the word of the Lord, - Bible verse
www.revisedenglishversion.com
But hey-it can get very complicated.
civic
Active Member
faith is a choice lol. nice try.
I choose to believe my wife when she tells me something, I choose to believe my kids and grandkids when they say they love me.
I choose to believe Gods promises.
That is what it takes to be a Calvinist
civic
Active Member
Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!
Notice what comes first
1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.
John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel.
John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows. See also John 5:24;40
John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.
Romans 10:8-13
But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.
Acts tells us the same order in Acts 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.
Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.
Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit
James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.
A few more scriptures on the topic of this discussion
1 Peter 1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.
James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.
Titus 3:5
He saved us, not by the righteous deeds we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of new birth and renewal by the Holy Spirit
See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?
John 3 the context, illustrations, text from the OT that he would be familiar with which Jesus points to for Nicodemus.
“You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? 11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” ( notice belief precedes life )
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ( notice once again belief comes before life)17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
Conclusion: Faith/Belief precedes life. John opens his gospel with belief preceding life ( John 1:12-13 and ends the gospel with the same John 20:31 ) Jesus teaches the same in John 3. And as we read in these SALVIFIC passages there is a consistent order.
1- hearing the word, the gospel
2- believing the gospel
3- receiving the gospel
4- calling upon the Lord
5- confessing Jesus is Lord
6- resulting in the new birth, born of God, salvation, eternal life
The Biblical Order Salutis
Summary of The Biblical order- notice where new life, regeneration is on the list from Scripture.
1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in #7
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30
No one was born again until Pentecost period. The disciples were not born again until Pentecost. Jesus taught and told them to tarry until Pentecost when the Holy Spirit would be with them and IN THEM. Not before Pentecost. It was at that time when they would be transformed inwardly by the power of the Holy Spirit working in them and through them. As Jesus told them it is better for you that I go away and send the Helper/Comforter who would lead them and guide them into all truth and bring to them remembrance of everything he had taught them. Until Pentecost they were still in hiding and fearful, carnal and in the flesh, not in the Spirit.
The disciples did not understand the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus which is the gospel. They did not believe it until they physically saw Jesus Resurrected from the dead.
Matthew 16:8-11
Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? 9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? 11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread?
Mark 7:18
And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
Mark 8:31-33
He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again. 32 He spoke plainly about this, and Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. 33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.”
Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.
Jesus predicts His death a 3rd time
Luke 18:31-34
Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. 32 He will be delivered over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him and spit on him; 33 they will flog him and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.” 34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.
Luke 24:25-26
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?
John 7:39
By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.
John 12:16
At first His disciples did not understand these things, but after Jesus was glorified they remembered what had been done to Him, and they realized that these very things had also been written about Him.
John 13
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.”
Jesus promised the disciples He would bring to their remembrance when Pentecost came and the Holy Spirit would be in them and guide them into all truth.
John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
John 16:7
"It is expedient for you that I go away; for if I go not away the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart I will send him unto you."
John 16:13
But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
hope this helps !!!
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Johann
Active Member
Already ahead of you-just peruse my posts on the word tetagmenoi
Johann
Active Member
Give him some space-you and I know that Calvinism is a stronghold -not willing to let it's victims see the Light.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Glad you agree that God arranged salvation for Gentiles.
Would you care to name any of those that you falsely claim are individually appointed?
You did not address the verses
In context
Rom 7:18 Paul noted the will was with him to do good but he lacked the power
It says nothing about the ability to believe
Nor does john 3 and it appears to contradict your view as Nicodemus Question regarding regeneration is answered by Christ thus
John 3:14–16 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
1Cor 12 Verse 3. No man speaking by the Spirit of God] It was granted on all hands that there could be no religion without Divine inspiration, because God alone, could make his will known to men: hence heathenism pretended to this inspiration; Judaism had it in the law and the prophets; and it was the very essence of the Christian religion. The heathen priests and priestesses pretended to receive, by inspiration from their god, the answers which they gave to their votaries. And as far as the people believed their pretensions, so far they were led by their teaching.
Both Judaism and heathenism were full of expectations of a future teacher and deliverer; and to this person, especially among the Jews, the Spirit in all the prophets gave witness. This was the Anointed One, the Messiah who was manifested in the person of Jesus of Nazareth; and him the Jews rejected, though he proved his Divine mission both by his doctrines and his miracles. But as he did not come as they fancied he would—as a mighty secular conqueror, they not only rejected but blasphemed him; and persons among them professing to be spiritual men, and under the influence of the Spirit of God, did so. But as the Holy Spirit, through all the law and the prophets gave testimony to the Messiah, and as Jesus proved himself to be the Christ both by his miracles and doctrines, no man under the inspiration of the Divine Spirit could say to him anathema—thou art a deceiver, and a person worthy of death, &c., as the Jews did: therefore the Jews were no longer under the inspiration of the Spirit of God. This appears to be the meaning of the apostle in this place: No man speaking by the Spirit, &c.
And that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord] Nor can we demonstrate this person to be the Messiah and the Saviour of men, but by the Holy Ghost, enabling us to speak with divers tongues, to work miracles; he attesting the truth of our doctrines to them that hear, by enlightening their minds, changing their hearts, and filling them with the peace and love of God.1
1 Adam Clarke, The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes (vol. 6, New Edition.; Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014), 258.
