Who does what?

[atpollard]

SOTERIOLOGY: what does God do and what does man do according to Paul …

Ephesians 1:3-23 [ESV]
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.

15 For this reason, because I have heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love toward all the saints, 16 I do not cease to give thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers, 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him, 18 having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of his great might 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. 22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Ephesians 2:1-10 [ESV]
1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

 

[civic]

Ephesians 1 the most abused passage by Calvinists.

Paul makes the distinction with 2 groups below and contrasts them.

The Jews who were Apostles ( we, us , our )who first believed and were the ones predestined / chosen and with the gentiles ( you ) who believed after, later in verses 13 and beyond. They gentiles did not have the wisdom , knowledge and the mysteries were revealed to the Apostles not the gentiles. Paul is teaching them those mysteries in this letter and educating them. This passage refutes Calvinism it does not support it whatsoever. Only if one uses eisegesis can verses 1-12 be applied to a Calvinist. Exegetically it applies to the Apostles who were given the knowledge, wisdom, the mysteries revealed to them by ejection / predestination not the gentiles in Ephesus.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ​

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

( Now Paul goes from we the apostles to them the gentile Ephesians. The apostles were the first to believe with wisdom from God and not prays for them to have the same wisdom they have)


13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer​

15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

conclusion: the predestined group ( Jewish Apostles ) were the first to believe and were given all wisdom, understanding knowing the mystery of His will. The gentiles ( you, them ) were not the first to believe until way later after Paul was sent to them after Acts 13. Thet were prayed for by Paul as a group to be blesses with wisdom, knowledge, enlightenment so they may know ( they did not know at that time) and did not know the mysteries like the group in 1:3-12. Paul is making the distinction between the Apostles and who he is wrting to like he does in most of his other letters in the introduction of this letter..

hope this helps !!!

 

[atpollard]

Someone needs to publish the Bible as a pamphlet for gentiles that excludes all of the books and chapters that “don’t apply to us” because we are not Jews. I bet it would fit in a shirt pocket.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

Someone needs to publish the Bible as a pamphlet for gentiles that excludes all of the books and chapters that “don’t apply to us” because we are not Jews. I bet it would fit in a shirt pocket.

It would be a pamphlet, indeed. That's the fairytale answer they give to Romans 8 and 9, too. And John 6, and so many more scriptures.

 

[atpollard]

For those that believe Ephesians 1 and 2 applies to non-Jewish Christians (like us), here are some things that Paul claims God does:

• Ephesians 1
• v.3 blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
• v.4: chose us in him before the foundation of the world
• v.5: predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
• v.6: blessed us in the Beloved (with his glorious grace)
• v.7-8: [lavished upon us] redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, the riches of his grace
• v.9 made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose
• v.11 predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will
• v.13 sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
• v.14 guarantee our inheritance until we acquire possession of it
• v.17 give you the Spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of him,
• v.18 enlighten the eyes of your heart
• v.19 the immeasurable greatness of his power & the working of his great might
• v.20 raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places
• v.22 put all things under Jesus feet and gave him as head over all things to the church
• v.23 fills all in all
• Ephesians 2
• v.5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ & saved us by grace
• v.6 raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus
• v.7 show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus
• v.8 saved us by grace through faith
• v.10 created us in Christ Jesus for good works

Just a list from Paul of things GOD has done for us in a discussion of soteriology in a letter to the Saints at Ephesus.

 

[makesends]

Ephesians 1 the most abused passage by Calvinists.

Paul makes the distinction with 2 groups below and contrasts them.

The Jews who were Apostles ( we, us , our )who first believed and were the ones predestined / chosen and with the gentiles ( you ) who believed after, later in verses 13 and beyond. They gentiles did not have the wisdom , knowledge and the mysteries were revealed to the Apostles not the gentiles. Paul is teaching them those mysteries in this letter and educating them. This passage refutes Calvinism it does not support it whatsoever. Only if one uses eisegesis can verses 1-12 be applied to a Calvinist. Exegetically it applies to the Apostles who were given the knowledge, wisdom, the mysteries revealed to them by ejection / predestination not the gentiles in Ephesus.

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise for Spiritual Blessings in Christ​

3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

( Now Paul goes from we the apostles to them the gentile Ephesians. The apostles were the first to believe with wisdom from God and not prays for them to have the same wisdom they have)


13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Thanksgiving and Prayer​

15 For this reason, ever since I heard about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all God’s people, 16 I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers. 17 I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better. 18 I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people, 19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

conclusion: the predestined group ( Jewish Apostles ) were the first to believe and were given all wisdom, understanding knowing the mystery of His will. The gentiles ( you, them ) were not the first to believe until way later after Paul was sent to them after Acts 13. Thet were prayed for by Paul as a group to be blesses with wisdom, knowledge, enlightenment so they may know ( they did not know at that time) and did not know the mysteries like the group in 1:3-12. Paul is making the distinction between the Apostles and who he is wrting to like he does in most of his other letters in the introduction of this letter..

hope this helps !!!

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that your conclusion concerning Eph 1 is correct. You are saying that if the predestined group (Jewish Apostles) were predestined to adoption and chosen according to God's plan, (if I follow your argument), the Gentile believers were not. You are not just saying that Eph 1 does not describe the Gentiles, but that it describes the Jewish Apostles only. I have two questions, then.

• How does this mean that the Gentiles were NOT also predestined? So far, all your argument can say is that Eph 1 does not claim predestination concerning the Gentiles.
• How does this passage refute Calvinism? Some of the arguments brought up against Calvinism are: a) Believers are not predestined to Salvation, but to good works etc; b) God is not partial to anyone in particular; c) Predestination to salvation defeats free will, rendering the predestinated puppets; d) Predestination of only some (not all) to salvation makes God unfair and unjust. Yet here you claim the Jewish Apostle group alone (very partial as to whom (b)) were predestined and chosen, and this passage does not mention being predestined to good works, but to adoption, chosen according to the plan of God (a), then how does this not defeat the free will of the Jewish Apostles, rendering them puppets (c)? How is this fair to the Gentiles (d)?

The passage refutes all 4 of those notions. Instead, even according to your reading, the Apostles were predestined to adoption —not (apparently) consulted about their adoption, God is particular about whom and when he saves.

 

[atpollard]

For those that believe Ephesians 1 and 2 applies to non-Jewish Christians (like us), here are some things that Paul claims we (people) do:

• Ephesians 1
• v.4 we should be holy and blameless before him (not an action, but a state of being)
• v.7 we have redemption (we received, not do)
• v.11 we have obtained an inheritance
• v.12 we might be to the praise of his glory (not an action, but a state of being)
• v.13 [we] heard the word of truth and believed … [we] were sealed
• v.14 we acquire possession of our inheritance [eventually]
• v.18 [we] may know what is the hope to which he has called us
• Ephesians 2
• v.1 [we] were dead in the trespasses and sins
• v.2 [we] once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience
• v.3 we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath
• v.5 [we] have been saved by grace
• v.8 [we] have been saved by grace through faith (And this is not your own doing)
• v.9 [we] have not gained salvation as a result of works; [we] may not boast.
• v.10 we are his workmanship … we should walk in good works [prepared by God].

Just a list from Paul of things PEOPLE do in a discussion of soteriology in a letter to the Saints at Ephesus.
In general, we bring active sin, we receive what God does/gives and then we do what God has prepared in advance for us to do.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It would be a pamphlet, indeed. That's the fairytale answer they give to Romans 8 and 9, too. And John 6, and so many more scriptures.

Didn't you exclude Jesus morning over Israel?