What is the Gospel

[Red Baker]

The death spoken of in Romans 5:12 is spiritual death. The death spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:21 is physical death.

In fact, neither physical death nor spiritual death is the result of Adam's sin. Physical death is an integral feature of this physical creation. There is no such thing as physical immortality. Adam died physically only indirectly due to sin. He died physically because God ejected him from the Garden of Eden where he would have had access to the tree of life which would have extended his physical life indefinitely (Gen 3:22).

Highlighted area are mine for discussion ~RB.

While I would agree with your first statement, your second is a flat out contradiction of your first! Paul through the Holy Ghost said that sin:

1st Corinthians 15:21​

“For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.”

Physical death came by man, (also spiritual per Genesis 2:17, neither by being an integral part of God's creation, God didn't create evil in this sense ~ only by knowing that it would come, did He create evil.

Isaiah 45:7​

“I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”

Genesis 2:17​

“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

This took place immediately when Adam sinned. Physical death followed many years later. You said:

There is no such thing as physical immortality.

Which you should have said: there was "no such possibility", which would have been true, since God alone is immutable, not angels, not man.

I do not have time much this week for very mush forum time, since I have so much to do for a group of believers who need my assistance for the next four Sunday, the Lord willing. I'll see what I can do, this (forum time) is more for relaxing than very much work as far as studying, and preparation.

 

[Jim]

I already showed you Rom 5 and its not like you believe scripture anyway.

Where in Romans 5 do you find any discussion of headshed?

 

[Jim]

Mans spirit at birth is dead in trespasses and sins. In New Birth when He saves us, He gives a New Spirit Ezk 36:26

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

So much of your understanding of scripture is nothing but your own eisegesis.

"Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him: (Zech 12:1).

Do you really think the spirit of man that God forms in him is dead in trespasses and sins? Man's spirit is not dead in trespasses and sins until he commits trespasses and sins.

 

[Jim]

Highlighted area are mine for discussion ~RB.

While I would agree with your first statement, your second is a flat out contradiction of your first! Paul through the Holy Ghost said that sin:

What does God say in Genesis 3:22-23? Why was Adam and Eve sent out of the Garden? If you don't understand Genesis 3:22-23 then you will not be able to interpret 1 Corinthians 15:21-22.

Man was created to die physically. It was only by the tree of life in the Garden that he was kept from dying. Adam was ejected from the Garden and the Garden was sealed off from anyone entering; therefore, no one has access to the tree of life to keep them from dying.

 

[Jim]

Which you should have said: there was "no such possibility", which would have been true, since God alone is immutable, not angels, not man.

You really like the word "immutable". But I am not sure I understand how you are using it. What has immutability to do with mortality being an integral feature of creation?

 

[Jim]

Genesis 2:17
“But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”

This took place immediately when Adam sinned. Physical death followed many years later.

Yes, Adam died spiritually immediately when he disobeyed God. His physical death many years later was not a direct result of his sin. That death was due to not having access to the fruit of the tree of life which could have kept him from dying physically.

 

[brightfame52]

Where in Romans 5 do you find any discussion of headshed?

In Rom 5 You have been told this b4. Christ is the head of the Church no matter what Book or Chapter .

 

[brightfame52]

So much of your understanding of scripture is nothing but your own eisegesis.

Man needs a new Spirit because the one by nature is dead to God Eph 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

while we at it, man needs a new heart as well, since the one by nature is dead to God and hardened and unrepentant

Rom 2:5

But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Thats all of us by nature. The word impenitent is the greek word ametanoētos :

1. admitting no change of mind, unrepented, impenitent

Definition and Scope
Strong’s Greek 279 designates the settled condition of a heart that refuses to change its mind and turn to God. It does not describe a momentary lapse but an ongoing spiritual posture that resists conviction and rejects the gracious summons to repent.

Our natural heart can only store up wrath !

 

[Jim]

Man needs a new Spirit because the one by nature is dead to God Eph 36:26

Yes man is dead in his trespasses and sins. The newborn baby cannot trespass nor sin.

 

[Jim]

In Rom 5 You have been told this b4. Christ is the head of the Church no matter what Book or Chapter .

Yes, of course, it is certainly true that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church, but that doesn't mean that everything you can make up and call it part of a headship is true.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes man is dead in his trespasses and sins. The newborn baby cannot trespass nor sin.

As you have been told millions of times, all babies sinned in their natural head Adam Rom 5:12, they born spiritually dead to God. Why you think they die ? Thats the wages of sin, our natural mortality is the wages of sin, our spiritual death is the wages of sin, and if you not one of the elect, your eternal second death is the wages of sin

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, of course, it is certainly true that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church,

Okay thats headship. Adam likewise was a head, thats headship. Adam was a figure/Type of Him to come which is Christ Rom 5:14

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

 

[Jim]

As you have been told millions of times, all babies sinned in their natural head Adam Rom 5:12, they born spiritually dead to God. Why you think they die ? Thats the wages of sin, our natural mortality is the wages of sin, our spiritual death is the wages of sin, and if you not one of the elect, your eternal second death is the wages of sin

That is really a stupid think to say. You did nothing before you were conceived and born. Mortality is how we were created. Nothing physical is immortal -- NOTHING!

Did you eat, drink and dirty your diaper in your natural head Adam?

Romas 5:12 DOES NOT say anyone sinned in Adam. Once again you are simply inserting your bad theology into God's word.

 

[brightfame52]

That is really a stupid think to say.

Thats what people think of the Gospel Doctrine of Rom 5

 

[Jim]

Okay thats headship. Adam likewise was a head, thats headship. Adam was a figure/Type of Him to come which is Christ Rom 5:14

Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

What death reigned? And what precisely do you think if means that they had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression?

The death being spoken of in Romans 5:12-19 is not physical death.

 

[brightfame52]

What death reigned?

I already stated

 

[Jim]

I already stated

No matter what you already stated, it is NOT physical death!!

 

[brightfame52]

No matter what you already stated, it is NOT physical death!!

So quit asking me, you already know what I believe and countless others. You in denial

 

[Jim]

So quit asking me, you already know what I believe and countless others. You in denial

No, you in ignorance.

 

[brightfame52]

No, you in ignorance.

So then why ask a ignorant person questions ? You really dont expect to learn nothing from them do you ? Its all a facade !