What is the Gospel

[Red Baker]

@Jim @Studyman

@Red Baker, you know my view on John 1:10-13 and Romans 9:16 so I won't bother to lay all of that out here. I just need you to prove I'm using scriptures wrong. But you can't do that. You can't prove that I am wrong. All you can do is present your own view which, of course, proves nothing.

So, my point here is that you are asking @Studyman to do something that you, yourself, cannot do. You should not ask anyone to prove anything from scripture, and you should not think that you can prove anything from scripture. All you can do is to present your own interpretation of any given scripture.

No problem Jim.

John 1:10-13~He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

@Jim @ Studyman,

To me, these wonderful scriptures are almost self explanatory, at least one would think so, until you ask ten different folks to give their understanding, and then you would know otherwises, that God must open eyes before one can see something that seemly is so clear, that it would be hard not to see what the Spirit is saying to us.

1) Jesus came unto the world, a world created by him, yet the world, Jews and Gentiles knew him not.

2) Jesus came unto his own people, the Jews, yet they too received him not, even though never a man spake as he spake, not to mention, all the miracles and wonderful works he did before them, yet they received him not, but sought to kill him, which they eventually did. He only lasted around three and a half years teaching them, but that was three and half years too long fo them.

3) Verse 12 is very important and we should consider verse 12 very carefully: John will tell us that those that did received him, the power to do so was given to them! Listen carefully: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to" ...... become the sons of God! I broke it down very carefully so one can see what the Spirit is saying to us. But, to add more to this, verse 13 is God's commentary to us concerning 10-12!

4) "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Which were born..........Not of blood.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with natural descent, pedigree, etc. The Jews especially had this problem, for they trusted in Abraham (Luke 3:8). Paul declared Abraham’s children are not the children of God (Romans 9:6-8). We are the seed of Abraham, for we are Christ’s, his true Seed (Galatians 3:16,29).

Nor of the will of the flesh.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with your natural will or choice. This phrase you and Studman and all the decisional regeneration heresy of Arminian. Prior to being born again, all you have is a flesh nature that is denied here. (Romans 7:18) Not only is the will of the flesh denied, but it is impossible for it to so will. A man in the flesh cannot and will not please God; he is a depraved rebel. God’s compassion and mercy are by His own will, not man’s (Rom 9:15-16). If you ever will good to God, it is He that worked it in you (Phil 2:12-13). Only God’s will is active (John 3:8; 5:21; Eph 1:5; Jas 1:18; Heb 10:9-10). The will of the flesh is all you have before regeneration – the sinful you. Therefore, this phrase denies any choice or act of will before regeneration! Until you are born again, this is the only will you have – that of the flesh. Paul denied that anything you do in the flesh can please God (Rom 8:7-8).

Nor of the will of man.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with the will of anyone outside you. There is nothing a parent can do to assist or cooperate for salvation (Ps 49:6-9). No other man has any influence on you being born again, except for One Man! The work of salvation is all found in one man’s obedience (Rom 5:12-19). There is no place for parents, pastors, priests, or soul winners for eternal life. In Him was life! He is the Life! He is resurrection and life! He has the keys!

But of God.

Becoming God’s son by being born again is His monergistic, sovereign work. John called it being born again from Jesus (John 3:1-8; I John 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-5,18). James and Peter also refer to it as a birth or begetting (James 1:18; Ist Peter 1:3,23). Paul used quickening (Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 2:13), regeneration, renewing (Tit 3:5). This creative work by God’s power gives each elect person a new spiritual man. We are God’s workmanship, created in Christ unto good works (Eph 2:10) This work by God Himself is compared to wind blowing by Jesus (John 3:8). This is the work of Christ Jesus raising dead souls to spiritual life (John 5:25). It is called a quickening of man from his natural state of spiritual death.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

You preach to the world that when Paul said, " as touching the law, a Pharisee;", that this "law" was "the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it".,

Once more~do not say what I believe, take what I say and prove it wrong by the scriptures, so we could carry on a productive dialogue, if that's possible with you.

One more time....Paul and the Jews in general thought that if they kept the law by outwardly keeping it (and yes, they corrupted it by adding their own commandments and taking away from God's words as it best served them) that eternal life in the world to come would be their. They did not understand just how holy, good and spiritual God's law were, that it condemned the very thought of sin working hidden in their hearts/members. But once one was truly converted, by the mercy and power of God alone, then all hope that life came from the law died, and then, and only then, they truly saw just how sinful they were. Their main problem is your main problem, they did not understand human depravity and sin that lived in them, that is in their wicked flesh where they vainly thought they could please God without "first" be given the power to do do so.

This is an insidious falsehood. An absolute falsehood. I posed the Scriptures that prove this popular error, and asked several questions so that you can see for yourself that the "Pharisees" were not obeying God's Law, but had gone about instead establishing their own righteousness.

I have never said that they were, of course they could not without first being born of God, and even then no one obeys without sinning!

Do not twist my words. The problem with the Pharisees and men like you, is that neither of you have submitted unto God's righteousness that Christ alone provided/secured for God's elect by his obedience alone, and both of you are going about teachings that in our flesh man can hear, obey and submit to God, without first being born of God based upon what Christ secured for us. The new birth is granted to God's elect on the behalf of what Christ as their surety secured for them alone. Do you teach this truth? No you do not.

and you know the Pharisees Law, was not "The Law of God". But you still post this teaching to anyone who would listen to you. That's a whole different ballgame.

I have never said that what the Pharisees taught/practiced was the truth, never ~ they rejected just about every truth taught in the scriptures including human depravity, since they thought that they could please God in their own flesh, just as you believe and teach. I do not teach man in his natural flesh can hear, believe and obey with without first having a new nature given freely by God's grace and power, Do you teach this truth? No!

I hope others can see this as well, and "Take Heed" of the contents of your posts, even though you come in Christ's Name.

Folks believe what they want to believe, just as you do.

 

[Red Baker]

Nevertheless, I believe all of Paul's teaching.

Really?

Romans 9:11-24~(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Have at it. Prove to me that you believe all of Paul's teachings.

 

[Jim]

@Jim @Studyman

No problem Jim.

@Jim @ Studyman,

To me, these wonderful scriptures are almost self explanatory, at least one would think so, until you ask ten different folks to give their understanding, and then you would know otherwises, that God must open eyes before one can see something that seemly is so clear, that it would be hard not to see what the Spirit is saying to us.

1) Jesus came unto the world, a world created by him, yet the world, Jews and Gentiles knew him not.

2) Jesus came unto his own people, the Jews, yet they too received him not, even though never a man spake as he spake, not to mention, all the miracles and wonderful works he did before them, yet they received him not, but sought to kill him, which they eventually did. He only lasted around three and a half years teaching them, but that was three and half years too long fo them.

3) Verse 12 is very important and we should consider verse 12 very carefully: John will tell us that those that did received him, the power to do so was given to them! Listen carefully: "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to" ...... become the sons of God! I broke it down very carefully so one can see what the Spirit is saying to us. But, to add more to this, verse 13 is God's commentary to us concerning 10-12!

4) "Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Which were born..........Not of blood.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with natural descent, pedigree, etc. The Jews especially had this problem, for they trusted in Abraham (Luke 3:8). Paul declared Abraham’s children are not the children of God (Romans 9:6-8). We are the seed of Abraham, for we are Christ’s, his true Seed (Galatians 3:16,29).

Nor of the will of the flesh.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with your natural will or choice. This phrase you and Studman and all the decisional regeneration heresy of Arminian. Prior to being born again, all you have is a flesh nature that is denied here. (Romans 7:18) Not only is the will of the flesh denied, but it is impossible for it to so will. A man in the flesh cannot and will not please God; he is a depraved rebel. God’s compassion and mercy are by His own will, not man’s (Rom 9:15-16). If you ever will good to God, it is He that worked it in you (Phil 2:12-13). Only God’s will is active (John 3:8; 5:21; Eph 1:5; Jas 1:18; Heb 10:9-10). The will of the flesh is all you have before regeneration – the sinful you. Therefore, this phrase denies any choice or act of will before regeneration! Until you are born again, this is the only will you have – that of the flesh. Paul denied that anything you do in the flesh can please God (Rom 8:7-8).

Nor of the will of man.

Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with the will of anyone outside you. There is nothing a parent can do to assist or cooperate for salvation (Ps 49:6-9). No other man has any influence on you being born again, except for One Man! The work of salvation is all found in one man’s obedience (Rom 5:12-19). There is no place for parents, pastors, priests, or soul winners for eternal life. In Him was life! He is the Life! He is resurrection and life! He has the keys!

But of God.

Becoming God’s son by being born again is His monergistic, sovereign work. John called it being born again from Jesus (John 3:1-8; I John 3:9; 4:7; 5:1-5,18). James and Peter also refer to it as a birth or begetting (James 1:18; Ist Peter 1:3,23). Paul used quickening (Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 2:13), regeneration, renewing (Tit 3:5). This creative work by God’s power gives each elect person a new spiritual man. We are God’s workmanship, created in Christ unto good works (Eph 2:10) This work by God Himself is compared to wind blowing by Jesus (John 3:8). This is the work of Christ Jesus raising dead souls to spiritual life (John 5:25). It is called a quickening of man from his natural state of spiritual death.

And yet you continue to reject what verse 12 actually says. Or worse, you implicitly injected your false doctrine of election into that verse. You said, "Becoming a child of God has nothing to do with your natural will or choice". But of course it does. Receiving Jesus was a choice. And verse 12 says it was to those who received him that He gave the right or the privilege to become children of God.

The first step in becoming a child of God is to receive Jesus, i.e., according to John 1:12, to believe in Jesus. It is to them that the right, the privilege, to be born again was given.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

But isn't "Struggling against sin" as defined by God, a Spiritual Act that men voluntarily engage in, that pleases God?

Only those born of God have a desire to war against sin, the wicked are very contended to love and delight in sin, they love it! John 3:19. Also, consider Romans 8:7,8 to get an answer to your question.

Was God not pleased when Shadrack, of his own free will, at the risk of his own life, refused to adopt the religious traditions of the world surrounding him? When Jesus, of His own free will, humbled Himself in obedience to His Father, did that voluntary humility not please His Father?

Those were already righteous men, not sinners for east LA.

Or are you still promoting the evil and wicked philosophy that only men who God "Makes" please Him, are able to please Him. And those who Don't please Him do so because God withheld the ability from them to please Him, and then killed them when they didn't please Him.

Do you have any idea what a wicked and anti-Christ teaching this is?

To answer your first question: "are you still promoting the evil and wicked philosophy that only men who God "Makes" please Him, are able to please Him"?
I teach what the scriptures teach:

Isaiah 43:7​

“Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.”

Ezekiel 36:27​

“And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

Your second question: "And those who Don't please Him do so because God withheld the ability from them to please Him, and then killed them when they didn't please Him."
Men by their fallen nature received from Adam lost the power to please God, and are born at enmity against him~this is the truth of the word of God taht men like you reject. God's grace and power restores this to those born of God, by creating a new man within his elect. You reject this truth with hatred.

You added: ~"Do you have any idea what a wicked and anti-Christ teaching this is?" The way you present it is wicked and anti-Christ, you will give an account unto God very soon for doing so.

Much of the rest of your post is babblings which I have no time for.

 

[Jim]

Really?

Have at it. Prove to me that you believe all of Paul's teachings.

You presented Romans 9:11-24 as an indication that you believe all of Paul's teachings. And yet it is that very passage that you so completely misinterpret and misunderstand Paul's teachings.

Romans 9:11

(ESV) though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls--

(KJV) (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

What election? What purpose? Paul's answer: "The older shall serve the younger".

Genesis 25:23 And the LORD said to her, "Two nations are in your womb, and two peoples from within you shall be divided; the one shall be stronger than the other, the older shall serve the younger."

That is the main point of the reference to Jacob and Esau. From Jacob came Israel and from Esau came the Edomites. The OT does not record any instance where Esau personally assumed the role of a servant to Jacob, but it does refer to times when the Edomites were in a kind of servitude to Israel or Judah. And in all of that it was Israel (from Jacob) through which Jesus the Messiah came into the world.

That election, more specifically, the purpose of God's choice there was not about the salvation or condemnation of either of the twins. It was all about bringing Christ to the world. Jacob was chosen to serve God's purpose of bringing the Savior into the world. The election was the choosing of the nation Israel to service.

That was reinforced by the reference to the choosing of Pharaoh.

 

[brightfame52]

. But of course it does. Receiving Jesus was a choice.

Its an spiritual action as well, so explain how a spiritually dead person can perform a spiritual action such as receiving Christ the Lord.

 

[Jim]

Its an spiritual action as well, so explain how a spiritually dead person can perform a spiritual action such as receiving Christ the Lord.

You are writing your own rules about being dead in trespasses and sins. Being spiritually dead does not prevent or limit one from doing anything.

 

[brightfame52]

You are writing your own rules about being dead in trespasses and sins. Being spiritually dead does not prevent or limit one from doing anything.

The rule was written here Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Now the word dead nekros no doubt in this context is metaphorical and it means:

metaph.

1. spiritually dead
   
   1. destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
   2. inactive as respects doing right

 

[Jim]

The rule was written here Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Now the word dead nekros no doubt in this context is metaphorical and it means:

metaph.

1. spiritually dead
   1. destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
   2. inactive as respects doing right

It doesn't mean that at all. As I have already said, you insert your own inappropriate definitions into God's word. Doing so is the blight of Calvinism to God's word.

 

[brightfame52]

It doesn't mean that at all.

Lol, yes it does, you just dont and cant believe it

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

Once more~do not say what I believe, take what I say and prove it wrong by the scriptures, so we could carry on a productive dialogue, if that's possible with you.
One more time....Paul and the Jews in general thought that if they kept the law by outwardly keeping it (and yes, they corrupted it by adding their own commandments and taking away from God's words as it best served them) that eternal life in the world to come would be their.
They did not understand just how holy, good and spiritual God's law were, that it condemned the very thought of sin working hidden in their hearts/members. But once one was truly converted, by the mercy and power of God alone, then all hope that life came from the law died, and then, and only then, they truly saw just how sinful they were.

I post Jesus Words, Isaiah's words, Paul's words who all say the same. The Pharisees had a Law, but it wasn't God's Law. And you refuse to even acknowledge HIS Words to explain where when Jesus says of the Pharisees, "Full well "ye reject" the commandment "of God", that ye may keep "your own tradition"., that HE really means the Pharisees were obeying "the law of God, that they thought would give life to those who kept it"., In fact you didn't even address any of the Christ's words I posted, nor did you answer any of the questions I asked. Yet you tell everyone else that you did.

Instead you post your own words, continually moving the goal posts, even denying your own teaching, trying to defend your actions.

When you could just deny yourself and humble yourself just a little bit, and do what you exact from everyone else, and admit that even the great Red Baker, is subject to deception. That even you can be carried away by the "other voice" in the garden God placed you in. That even you can be taken captive by the prince of this world to do his will.

The Pharisees murdered innocent people, "outwardly" Red. They polluted God's Sabbaths "outwardly". They bragged about their law, "We have a Law, and by OUR law, Christ Jesus should be killed" because HE is a Liar." They did all these Transgressions against God's Law "Outwardly" because they didn't believe God or Moses. If you believed in the Christ "of the Bible" you would know this, just as if the Pharisees had been obedient to God's Laws like Zacharias, they would have had the Faith of Christ, and knew Him even before HE was born.

I can't "make you" believe in the Words of the Jesus of the Bible. All I can do is post His Words, and hope you believe Him over the religion you have adopted.

Their main problem is your main problem, they did not understand human depravity and sin that lived in them, that is in their wicked flesh where they vainly thought they could please God without "first" be given the power to do do so.

I know your religion and their wicked judgments against God perfectly Red. They preach to the world that God "withholds" from people the power to believe HIS Words, making them depraved, then slaughters them "Because" they didn't believe His Words.

And clearly, like the Pharisees, your mission is to promote "Your adopted" religion. Because both the Pharisees and the religion you have adopted, promote "a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD."

Were there Jews that "did" Obey the Laws of God?

Luke 1: 5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

And what did the Spirit of Christ say about him?

Luke 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, 68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

That you cannot see the stark difference between a man who "Yielded himself" to God, and the religious sect of the Pharisees who were children of the devil, is astounding to me. I was deceived just like you once Red. I never want to turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage, of your man-made judgments, high days and images of God.

I just hope that you might be compelled to "humble yourself" and stop fighting against, and start "Letting" the mind of Christ be in you, and start bring every thought into the obedience of Christ.

But it's a voluntary humility. Like you said, "folks believe what they want to believe".

Which is another hypocritical statement, because you preached for decades that I have no choice, and can only believe what God gives me the power to believe.

This is why Jesus said in Matt. 6, "Be not ye therefore like unto them".

 

[Studyman]

Really?

Have at it. Prove to me that you believe all of Paul's teachings.

Nice try at changing the subject Red. Let's first settle the issue of the insidious and evil lie being promoted by this world's religions, that the Pharisees law was "the law of God, that they thought would give life to those who kept it".

Then we can move on to all of Paul's teaching about the purpose of the Law and Prophets.

1 Cor. 10: 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

And again;

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[brightfame52]

They preach to the world that God "withholds" from people the power to believe HIS Words, making them depraved, then slaughters them "Because" they didn't believe His Words.

God has to give the activity of believing on Christ Phil 1:29 because man by nature cant do it because of depravity Jn 6:44,65

 

[Jim]

Lol, yes it does, you just dont and cant believe it

There is nothing in the bible that says it.

 

[brightfame52]

There is nothing in the bible that says it.

I just showed you scripture that man is dead in sin , what that means in a metaphorical sense, you as always rejected it

 

[Jim]

I just showed you scripture that man is dead in sin , what that means in a metaphorical sense, you as always rejected it

I know what the scripture says. Too bad you don't know what it means.

 

[brightfame52]

I know what the scripture says. Too bad you don't know what it means.

You always reject scripture

 

[Jim]

You always reject scripture

I don't ever reject scripture, I just reject your nonsensical interpretation of some scripture.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

I post Jesus Words, Isaiah's words, Paul's words who all say the same.

Posting scriptures and rightly dividing them are two different acts altogether; my youngest grandson Daniel, is smart enough to post scriptures, but ask him to rightly what he has posted would be an impossible task for him, as it is with you.

The Pharisees had a Law, but it wasn't God's Law. And you refuse to even acknowledge HIS Words to explain where when Jesus says of the Pharisees, "Full well "ye reject" the commandment "of God", that ye may keep "your own tradition"

Studyman, they had the word of God, just as you have the word of God, yet both of you, use the word of God, or not use it, (whichever is convenient) that best suited man's depraved heart. Consider:

Sabbath Laws: The Pharisees created specific regulations on forbidden acts on the Sabbath, which Jesus deliberately broke to show their traditions were not from God. They would feed their animals, yet would not do acts of charity toward neighbours, or allow acts of mercy by neighbours among themselves! They thought that man was made for the Sabbath, not that the Sabbath was made for man! You practice the Jewish Sabbath as a day to be observe, why? You think other should do so also, why? Give me a NT scripture proving your position, as to why you think NT believers should keep the Jewish Sabbath. I think you are more of Pharisees than you wants others to believe you are.

Making Law Manageable: While the law of God given by Moses was impossible for man to keep, yet they made man believe they they could do the commandments and live, while passing over the spirituality of the law that demanded absolute purity in thoughts, words, and deeds, from conception to death in everyone of the commandments. Offend in one point, man was guilty of all of them, and deserved condemnation/death.

You folks believe and teach that man can do spiritual acts pleasing to God and that man in bondage to sin and the Devil ~you teach is not dead spiritual speaking, but is very much alive and in his natural flesh he has some good that he can do apart from God first creating them to do spiritual acts, that can be pleasing to Him. Your doctrine is of the Pharisees who thought they they were never in bondage to anyone!

John 8:33​

“They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?”

In their own laws they could not see as much as that they were in bondage in Egypt, then to Assyrians and then the Babylonians, etc.

Self-Righteousness: They relied on their own legalistic righteousness rather than on grace alone leading them to reject Jesus when his ministry exposed their true standing. It was a eat not, wear not, go not, do not, drink not rellgion. It you that cleaves to the dietary laws of the Jews rellgion, not me.

Mark 7:18​

“And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;”

But your Pharisaical rellgion teaches that it does, and man is not allow to eat pork, etc. You are more of a Pharisees than you want to admit. I must move on.

I can't "make you" believe in the Words of the Jesus of the Bible.

Studman, your jesus is another jesus, since you reject that Jesus is God manifest in human flesh, so no you cannot get me to trust in your jesus. See, you say you believe in the jesus of the bible, whatever that means, it certainly does not mean that Jesus Christ was the God of Genesis 1;1, which I do believe in. Do you believe Jesus was God manifest in human flesh, here is your chance to show your true colors. I'm sure you will dance around this question.

I know your religion and their wicked judgments against God perfectly Red. They preach to the world that God "withholds" from people the power to believe HIS Words, making them depraved, then slaughters them "Because" they didn't believe His Words.

Again stop lying on me. God created Adam and Eve upright and gave them ALL they needed to continue in the state in which he created them, Their sin was their own a sin, that is past down to all of Adam's posterity. A depraved sinful nature, dead spiritually toward God and at enmity against him, one that is void of the image of God that was stolen from Adam by the Devil.

Enough said for now.