What do 7th Day Adventists Believe ?

charismaticlady said:
As I recall
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You are relying on a memory of something you were acquainted with 50 years ago and with which you disagreed? You admit then that at no time in those 23 years you were converted yourself, and therefore cannot testify to your own conversion? And in all that time you heard no-one elses testimony of being converted? So the conclusion you are implying is there are no genuine Christian Adventists as none of them are converted?
 
EclipseEventSigns said:
You read your own comment. You are the one who wrote them all wrong.
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You can't just accuse someone of something and not offer any reason why. Kings and queens were able to do that many years ago but we do not live in that world anymore. You would be laughed out of court if you did what you just did.
 
synergy said:
You can't just accuse someone of something and not offer any reason why. Kings and queens were able to do that many years ago but we do not live in that world anymore. You would be laughed out of court if you did what you just did.
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Have you even read the exchange? I have given her comment multiple times (yes, multiple) where she states wrong historical dates. Either she refuses to check her own comment or she is playing ignorant.
 
Brakelite said:
Continuing...

The question may well be raised, Why did the people need cleansing? Had they not brought their sacrifices from time to time throughout the year, confessed their sins, and gone away forgiven? Why would they need to be forgiven twice? Why should “a remembrance” be “made of sins every year”? Should not “the worshippers once purged have had no more conscience of sins”? Hebrews 10:3, 2. These questions demand an answer. It may be pertinent to remark that salvation is always conditioned upon repentance and perseverance. God forgives, but the forgiveness is not unconditional and independent of the sinner's future course. Note how Ezekiel puts it. “When the righteous turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he bath sinned, in them shall he die.” Ezekiel 18:24. This text states that when a man turns away from the right, all his good deeds “shall not be mentioned.” The converse is also true. If a man has been wicked, but turns from his evil way, “all his transgressions that he bath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him.” Verse 22. Note also how Christ in the parable dealt with the man who owed ten thousand talents. When he begged for mercy he was forgiven. (Matthew 18:27) However, when the same servant was unmerciful to his fellow servant who owed the small sum of a hundred pence, and had him cast into prison, his lord said unto him, '0 thou wicked servant, I forgave you all that debt, because thou desired me. Should not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?' And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also unto you, if you from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Matthew 18:32-35.
God keeps an account with each man. Whenever a prayer for forgiveness ascends to God from a true heart, God forgives. But after men have been forgiven they at times change their minds. They repent of their repentance. They show by their lives that their repentance is not permanent. And so God, instead of forgiving absolutely and finally, marks forgiveness against men's names and waits with the final blotting out of sins until they have had time to think the matter through. If at the end of their lives they are still of the same mind, abhorring their sins in sincere repentance, God counts them faithful, and in the day of judgment their record is finally cleared. So in Israel of old. When the Day of Atonement rolled around, each offender had an opportunity to show that he, was still of the same mind. If he was, the sin was blotted out, and he was completely cleansed.

The Day of Atonement was the day of judgment to Israel, as evidenced by the quotations at the beginning of this chapter. Day by day during the year the transgressors had appeared at the temple and received forgiveness. On the Day of Atonement these sins came in review before God, or as Hebrews puts it, there was “a remembrance again made of sins.” Hebrews 10:1 On that day every true Israelite renewed his consecration to God and confirmed his repentance. As a result, he was not only forgiven but cleansed. “On that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.” Leviticus 16:30. It must have been with happiness in their hearts that Israel went home in the evening of that day.” Clean from all your sins.” Wonderful assurance! The same promise is given in the New Testament: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9. Not only forgiven, from “all unrighteousness,” but cleansed! Cleansed from “all your sins”! “0h, the bliss of the glorious thought my sin, not in part, but the whole.” Of the final judgment the revelator says: “I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God. And the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Revelation 20:12. “The dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books.” The Day of Atonement was a type of that day. While there were no books kept in the sanctuary, there was, nevertheless, a record of sin. Every drop of blood sprinkled on the altar of burnt offering in the morning and evening service constituted a record of sins committed. On the horns of the same altar, and also on the altar of incense, a record of sins forgiven was made by the blood put on the horns by the officiating priest as sinners came with their personal sacrifices to obtain forgiveness. On the Day of Atonement the sins of those who had already obtained forgiveness were blotted out. The unrepentant sinners were “cut off.” Thus the sanctuary was cleansed of the record of sin accumulated through the year. The sins no longer remained as a witness against the people. Atonement had been made, and the people were not under condemnation. Even the record existed no more.
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Can you tell us how Ellen White's Investigative Judgment doctrine fits in with what you wrote about the Atonement? Thanks!
 
synergy said:
Can you tell us how Ellen White's Investigative Judgment doctrine fits in with what you wrote about the Atonement? Thanks!
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It isn't Ellen White's investigative judgement. She judges no-one. It is God's investigation of the hearts and lives of all men before the second coming. Revelation 11:18,19.
KJV Revelation 20:12-13
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
KJV Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

How else shall the reapers/angels discern who is saved and who is lost, except first there be an investigation?
 
Brakelite said:
It isn't Ellen White's investigative judgement. She judges no-one. It is God's investigation of the hearts and lives of all men before the second coming. Revelation 11:18,19.
KJV Revelation 20:12-13
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
KJV Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

How else shall the reapers/angels discern who is saved and who is lost, except first there be an investigation?
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Let me restate my question. Have you read Ellen White's Investigative Judgment writings? It has Satan appearing by Jesus' Throne when Jesus stood up to go into the Holy of Holies. Please explain how Satan can possibly appear beside Jesus' Throne.

I saw the Father rise from the throne, [See page 92.] and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, “Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself.” Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, “My Father, give us Thy Spirit.” Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace. EW 55.1

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, “Father, give us Thy Spirit.” Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children.

Reference:
m.egwwritings.org

The Investigative Judgment in the Writings of Ellen G. White

m.egwwritings.org m.egwwritings.org
You also need to press the "Early Writing, 55" link.
 
Brakelite said:
Continuing...

The question may well be raised, Why did the people need cleansing? Had they not brought their sacrifices from time to time throughout the year, confessed their sins, and gone away forgiven? Why would they need to be forgiven twice? Why should “a remembrance” be “made of sins every year”? Should not “the worshippers once purged have had no more conscience of sins”? Hebrews 10:3, 2. These questions demand an answer. It may be pertinent to remark that salvation is always conditioned upon repentance and perseverance. God forgives, but the forgiveness is not unconditional and independent of the sinner's future course. Note how Ezekiel puts it. “When the righteous turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he bath sinned, in them shall he die.” Ezekiel 18:24. This text states that when a man turns away from the right, all his good deeds “shall not be mentioned.” The converse is also true. If a man has been wicked, but turns from his evil way, “all his transgressions that he bath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him.” Verse 22. Note also how Christ in the parable dealt with the man who owed ten thousand talents. When he begged for mercy he was forgiven. (Matthew 18:27) However, when the same servant was unmerciful to his fellow servant who owed the small sum of a hundred pence, and had him cast into prison, his lord said unto him, '0 thou wicked servant, I forgave you all that debt, because thou desired me. Should not thou also have had compassion on thy fellow servant, even as I had pity on thee?' And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall My heavenly Father do also unto you, if you from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Matthew 18:32-35.
God keeps an account with each man. Whenever a prayer for forgiveness ascends to God from a true heart, God forgives. But after men have been forgiven they at times change their minds. They repent of their repentance. They show by their lives that their repentance is not permanent. And so God, instead of forgiving absolutely and finally, marks forgiveness against men's names and waits with the final blotting out of sins until they have had time to think the matter through. If at the end of their lives they are still of the same mind, abhorring their sins in sincere repentance, God counts them faithful, and in the day of judgment their record is finally cleared. So in Israel of old. When the Day of Atonement rolled around, each offender had an opportunity to show that he, was still of the same mind. If he was, the sin was blotted out, and he was completely cleansed.

The Day of Atonement was the day of judgment to Israel, as evidenced by the quotations at the beginning of this chapter. Day by day during the year the transgressors had appeared at the temple and received forgiveness. On the Day of Atonement these sins came in review before God, or as Hebrews puts it, there was “a remembrance again made of sins.” Hebrews 10:1 On that day every true Israelite renewed his consecration to God and confirmed his repentance. As a result, he was not only forgiven but cleansed. “On that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord.” Leviticus 16:30. It must have been with happiness in their hearts that Israel went home in the evening of that day.” Clean from all your sins.” Wonderful assurance! The same promise is given in the New Testament: “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” 1 John 1:9. Not only forgiven, from “all unrighteousness,” but cleansed! Cleansed from “all your sins”! “0h, the bliss of the glorious thought my sin, not in part, but the whole.” Of the final judgment the revelator says: “I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God. And the books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Revelation 20:12. “The dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books.” The Day of Atonement was a type of that day. While there were no books kept in the sanctuary, there was, nevertheless, a record of sin. Every drop of blood sprinkled on the altar of burnt offering in the morning and evening service constituted a record of sins committed. On the horns of the same altar, and also on the altar of incense, a record of sins forgiven was made by the blood put on the horns by the officiating priest as sinners came with their personal sacrifices to obtain forgiveness. On the Day of Atonement the sins of those who had already obtained forgiveness were blotted out. The unrepentant sinners were “cut off.” Thus the sanctuary was cleansed of the record of sin accumulated through the year. The sins no longer remained as a witness against the people. Atonement had been made, and the people were not under condemnation. Even the record existed no more.
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I have another question about how Satan seems to be an integral part of SDA Salvation, according to Ellen White's writings. Here is an excerpt from Ellen White:

It was seen, also, that while the sin-offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scape-goat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin-offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scape-goat. When Christ, by virtue of his own blood, removes the sins of his people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of his ministration, he will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty.

According to Ellen White, it was not Christ who was the scapegoat who bore our sins. It was Satan.

So, in the SDA Church, we have Satan next to Jesus' Throne (see Comment #250) and Satan bore SDA Believers' sins. Sounds like Satan is a co-Savior of the SDA Church.

The Bible says otherwise:

(1 Pet 2:24) who Himself (Christ) bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
 
synergy said:
Let me restate my question. Have you read Ellen White's Investigative Judgment writings? It has Satan appearing by Jesus' Throne when Jesus stood up to go into the Holy of Holies. Please explain how Satan can possibly appear beside Jesus' Throne.

I saw the Father rise from the throne, [See page 92.] and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, “Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself.” Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, “My Father, give us Thy Spirit.” Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace. EW 55.1

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, “Father, give us Thy Spirit.” Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children.

Reference:
m.egwwritings.org

The Investigative Judgment in the Writings of Ellen G. White

m.egwwritings.org m.egwwritings.org
You also need to press the "Early Writing, 55" link.
Click to expand...
I have read that before yes. It was a vision, but there are no souls in heaven waiting to enter the temple. You need to understand full Adventist theology. Mrs White wasn't 'seeing' literal people, nor a literal Satan, in heaven next to the throne. The people she saw were living people on earth who did not follow Jesus into the sanctuary by faith according to the teachings of the Day of Atonement, and she saw Satan as the tempter deceiving those people, and blinding them to the truth. Again, they weren't in heaven. And if you understood Adventist theology regarding the state of the dead, you would have understood better what Mrs White was talking about.
 
synergy said:
I have another question about how Satan seems to be an integral part of SDA Salvation, according to Ellen White's writings. Here is an excerpt from Ellen White:

It was seen, also, that while the sin-offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scape-goat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin-offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scape-goat. When Christ, by virtue of his own blood, removes the sins of his people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of his ministration, he will place them upon Satan, who, in the execution of the judgment, must bear the final penalty.

According to Ellen White, it was not Christ who was the scapegoat who bore our sins. It was Satan.

So, in the SDA Church, we have Satan next to Jesus' Throne (see Comment #250) and Satan bore SDA Believers' sins. Sounds like Satan is a co-Savior of the SDA Church.

The Bible says otherwise:

(1 Pet 2:24) who Himself (Christ) bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.
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Concerning the scape goat.
This particular ritual took place only on the Day of Atonement. This event was the penultimate event on the Jewish calendar, and the final event typifying the service in the heavenly sanctuary before the second coming. If you truly wanted to understand Adventist theology better, you would have investigated deeper and read more widely. As it is you have copy pasted others' equally ignorant summisings based on faulty and/or insufficient information. Instead, you have picked out one detail of a far greater system of redemption and attempted to use that as a weapon to denigrate the whole.
Christ bore our sins on Calvary. All of them for the entire world. This action of Christ on Calvary was typified throughout the Jewish year through the sacrifices and shedding of blood. The sins, in type, were then carried into the sanctuary through the blood and sprinkled before the veil, and dabbed on the horns of the altar of incense, this typifying the books in heaven which records everything we do in this life, both good and bad. On the Day of Atonement, two goats are taken aside, and by lot one is chosen to die. The blood of that goat, upon which no sins were confessed, was also taken into the sanctuary typifying the final work of Atonement, cleansing the sanctuary of all the sins of the house of Israel. All who refuse to repent, must bear their own sins, and accept the responsibility themselves, taking upon themselves the just penalty of transgression. Although Jesus died for these people, because they resist repentance, take them back from Christ and carry them to their graves. The sins recorded in the sanctuary are those of the redeemed. They are forgiven. The people are cleansed. Christ had completed His work on redeeming them and Atonement is complete.
But what happens to those sins after that cleansing? What of the responsibility and accountability that Satan has in tempting, and deceiving, and lying, and slandering the character of God that led to transgression? Does He get away scot free? No. He becomes the scape goat. Christ is not a scape goat. The scape goat has no place in the redeeming of God's people. They are already redeemed, the sins are forgiven, they are free. Satan however isn't. The sins of the unrepentant, are born by the lost. Satan does not die on behalf of the lost. They themselves die the second death. The sins recorded in the sanctuary, are then confessed upon the scape goat, Satan, who is then left in the wilderness, bound for a1000 years, and is eventually destroyed. For his own sins. The party He played in the rebellion. Not ours. Not anyone else's. Just his.
 
Brakelite said:
Concerning the scape goat.
This particular ritual took place only on the Day of Atonement. This event was the penultimate event on the Jewish calendar, and the final event typifying the service in the heavenly sanctuary before the second coming. If you truly wanted to understand Adventist theology better, you would have investigated deeper and read more widely. As it is you have copy pasted others' equally ignorant summisings based on faulty and/or insufficient information. Instead, you have picked out one detail of a far greater system of redemption and attempted to use that as a weapon to denigrate the whole.
Christ bore our sins on Calvary. All of them for the entire world. This action of Christ on Calvary was typified throughout the Jewish year through the sacrifices and shedding of blood. The sins, in type, were then carried into the sanctuary through the blood and sprinkled before the veil, and dabbed on the horns of the altar of incense, this typifying the books in heaven which records everything we do in this life, both good and bad. On the Day of Atonement, two goats are taken aside, and by lot one is chosen to die. The blood of that goat, upon which no sins were confessed, was also taken into the sanctuary typifying the final work of Atonement, cleansing the sanctuary of all the sins of the house of Israel. All who refuse to repent, must bear their own sins, and accept the responsibility themselves, taking upon themselves the just penalty of transgression. Although Jesus died for these people, because they resist repentance, take them back from Christ and carry them to their graves. The sins recorded in the sanctuary are those of the redeemed. They are forgiven. The people are cleansed. Christ had completed His work on redeeming them and Atonement is complete.
But what happens to those sins after that cleansing? What of the responsibility and accountability that Satan has in tempting, and deceiving, and lying, and slandering the character of God that led to transgression? Does He get away scot free? No. He becomes the scape goat. Christ is not a scape goat. The scape goat has no place in the redeeming of God's people. They are already redeemed, the sins are forgiven, they are free. Satan however isn't. The sins of the unrepentant, are born by the lost. Satan does not die on behalf of the lost. They themselves die the second death. The sins recorded in the sanctuary, are then confessed upon the scape goat, Satan, who is then left in the wilderness, bound for a1000 years, and is eventually destroyed. For his own sins. The party He played in the rebellion. Not ours. Not anyone else's. Just his.
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On re-reading the above, I could have made a couple of points clearer. Happy to answer any further questions.
 
Brakelite said:
I have read that before yes. It was a vision, but there are no souls in heaven waiting to enter the temple. You need to understand full Adventist theology. Mrs White wasn't 'seeing' literal people, nor a literal Satan, in heaven next to the throne. The people she saw were living people on earth who did not follow Jesus into the sanctuary by faith according to the teachings of the Day of Atonement, and she saw Satan as the tempter deceiving those people, and blinding them to the truth. Again, they weren't in heaven. And if you understood Adventist theology regarding the state of the dead, you would have understood better what Mrs White was talking about.
Click to expand...
The Father's and Jesus' Throne is found only in Heaven. So something is not adding up here. Maybe Ellen is referring to Satan's Kingdom and Throne on Earth.
 
Brakelite said:
Concerning the scape goat.
This particular ritual took place only on the Day of Atonement. This event was the penultimate event on the Jewish calendar, and the final event typifying the service in the heavenly sanctuary before the second coming. If you truly wanted to understand Adventist theology better, you would have investigated deeper and read more widely. As it is you have copy pasted others' equally ignorant summisings based on faulty and/or insufficient information. Instead, you have picked out one detail of a far greater system of redemption and attempted to use that as a weapon to denigrate the whole.
Christ bore our sins on Calvary. All of them for the entire world. This action of Christ on Calvary was typified throughout the Jewish year through the sacrifices and shedding of blood. The sins, in type, were then carried into the sanctuary through the blood and sprinkled before the veil, and dabbed on the horns of the altar of incense, this typifying the books in heaven which records everything we do in this life, both good and bad. On the Day of Atonement, two goats are taken aside, and by lot one is chosen to die. The blood of that goat, upon which no sins were confessed, was also taken into the sanctuary typifying the final work of Atonement, cleansing the sanctuary of all the sins of the house of Israel. All who refuse to repent, must bear their own sins, and accept the responsibility themselves, taking upon themselves the just penalty of transgression. Although Jesus died for these people, because they resist repentance, take them back from Christ and carry them to their graves. The sins recorded in the sanctuary are those of the redeemed. They are forgiven. The people are cleansed. Christ had completed His work on redeeming them and Atonement is complete.
But what happens to those sins after that cleansing? What of the responsibility and accountability that Satan has in tempting, and deceiving, and lying, and slandering the character of God that led to transgression? Does He get away scot free? No. He becomes the scape goat. Christ is not a scape goat. The scape goat has no place in the redeeming of God's people. They are already redeemed, the sins are forgiven, they are free. Satan however isn't. The sins of the unrepentant, are born by the lost. Satan does not die on behalf of the lost. They themselves die the second death. The sins recorded in the sanctuary, are then confessed upon the scape goat, Satan, who is then left in the wilderness, bound for a1000 years, and is eventually destroyed. For his own sins. The party He played in the rebellion. Not ours. Not anyone else's. Just his.
Click to expand...
So Ellen has us believing that it was Satan who was the scapegoat in OT times as opposed to Jesus in NT times? This is a major misalignment in Ellen's thinking. We can align ourselves with the Bible if we scrap Ellen's account altogether.
 
Brakelite said:
On re-reading the above, I could have made a couple of points clearer. Happy to answer any further questions.
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Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I can sense a definite movement away from Ellen's writings to more Biblical beliefs in SDA Churches. I'm very happy to see that.
 
@civic

Back in 2001 I was driving across the Arizona desert to once again attend the Spirit-filled Living Conference at Dr. Jack Hayford's church (where I used to attend in California, and even received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and most of the gifts of the Holy Spirit (except 2). I happened to be asked to come up on the platform to receive a "blessing/prophecy." The speaker knew me and wanted to show an example of giving a blessing. It was on tape and I played that tape over and over to hear this prophecy. There wasn't anything I could relate to. But as soon as I got home the prophecy started coming to pass. One of the lines of this long prophecy was "that her eyes be opened by the Spirit of God." Last year they were opened and I could see a bright white halo around my pastor's head and shoulders during his sermon. I started visiting other churches; once with a missionary friend and when the pastor started to preach instead of a white halo, black billowing smoke that turned into a funnel like tornado. It was clear as day. I looked around and I could tell no one else saw this, and it lasted throughout his sermon.

I tell you that because I decided to visit the Seventh-day Adventist church in Murfreesboro, and was amazed. I've seen a different type of bright white halo around 4 different women. Though white, it didn't appear the same as my pastor's. It was like a round softball size ball and brighter than my pastors, but it was surrounded by a blacker than black round frame. ??? God revealed knowledge about it. I know what that means, but at least they are saved. And nothing around the man giving the sermon. I've decided to attend on Saturdays as I have nothing better to do, and make some friends. I just don't want to debate the Ten Commandments, the Sabbath or anything else. They know I'm no longer an Adventist, and last week was the first time two ladies wanted me to debate the issue. I refused. We are too close to the second coming and I don't want to spread doubt when they are fine keeping the Sabbath.
 
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