Were the Men of Sodom Homosexual?
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101G
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And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
Then Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I do not know a man?” Luke 1:31-34
The men of Sodom were homosexuals.
Know means sexual intercourse in the context.
No getting around that.
And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.” Genesis 19:5
See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.” Genesis 19:8
These deranged homosexuals were out for sexual intercourse.
Case closed.
MTMattie
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101G
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GINOLJC, to all
Jude 1:7 makes two allegations. one against the fallen angels, and the other against the men of Sodom and Gomorrah, which will open our eyes as to what happen in and to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. let’s breakdown Jude 1:7 and see the true sin.
Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude 1:7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
so, we see these “TWO” charges. one directed at the fallen angels, and the other against the men of Sodom and Gomorrha, THAT THESE FILTHY DREAMERS WHO DID THE SAME. A, Spoke against authority. and B. defiled or went after strange flesh. scripture, Jude 1:8 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.“
Indictment #1. against THESE FILTHY DREAMERS, (WHO WALK AFTER THE FLESH) “Speaking evil of dignities” meaning a rebellion against authority. Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." this is the opposite of God ORDER, the devil and those who followed him REBELLED. and was accuser of the brethren, God children here on earth. but the good angels as LIKE Michael the archangel did not, meaning as Jude states, Jude 1:9 "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." this is what the charge, “speak evil of dignities”,the devil and the fallen angels did. but not Michael and the Good angels. they did not speak evil of God, nor want to overthrow God in corruption. but the rebellious angels did. so, they (the fallen angel) was cast out of heaven, meaning they left/or lost their first estate, and now are reserves for judgment. LIKEWISE THESE FILTHY DREAMERS DID THE SAME spoke evil of God and his people, (especially the Lord Jesus apostles, prophets teachers, ect… in REBELLION. as the apostle peter makes it clear what Jude is saying here. 2 Peter 2:10 "But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities." BINGO, exactly just what Jude said, 2 Peter 2:11 "Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord." 2 Peter 2:12 "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" 2 Peter 2:13 "And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;" 2 Peter 2:14 "Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:" 2 Peter 2:15 "Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;" THESE FILTHY DREAMERS DID THE SAME.
so, Indictment #1. is clearly seen of THESE FILTHY DREAMERS, as what the angels did, to speak evil of dignitie and despise government. meaning in opposition of God set order. let’s see it. Jude 1:8 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.”, just as the apostle said.
Now, Indictment #2. the sin of THESE FILTHY DREAMERS THAT WENT AFTER STRANGE FLESH, as was in Sodom and Gomorrah. now we will have our answer. Jude 1:8 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities." the term LIKEWISE means, “in the same way; also:” so in the same way or like manner, just as the angels which kept not their first estate, or fell from heaven, THESE FILTHY DREAMERS DID THE SAME, in defiling the Flesh. this is what strange flesh mean, this is the opposite of God ORDER. let’s break this down and clearly understand.
what is another word for defile? when used as a VERB “To engage in carnal activity, especially with a person unwilling or unable to give consent”, it means the following. rape, violate, debauch, deflower, molest, ravish, seduce, abuse, sexually assault, force yourself on, dishonor, sexually abuse, assault, indecently assault, take away someone's innocence, take advantage of, have your wicked way with force, date-rape gang-rape, abuse sexually bed outrage befoul despoil interfere with pop someone's cherry have one's evil way with have your way with lead astray pop the cherry ruin harass tumble have sex with sexually harass persuade someone to have sexual intercourse grope fondle fornicate ect…. these definition, and many more can be found at What is another word for defile? | Defile Synonyms - WordHippo Thesaurus
Well now, we see what, “to go after strange flesh”, means, to defile the flesh. the bible answer itself if one just follow the Holy Spirit teaching. knowing this, we see the sins of Sodom and Gomorrha and what got them …. “BURNT” to an asunder as a example. keeping Indictment #2 in mind, let’s see this clearly in the book of Judges chapter 19. because, the term “abuse, and sexually assault will clearly be see in our next example of what happen in genesis chapter 19. and our proof is in the book of Judges chapter 19.
Judges 19:1-3 "And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah." "And his concubine played the whore against him, and went away from him unto her father's house to Bethlehemjudah, and was there four whole months." "And her husband arose, and went after her, to speak friendly unto her, and to bring her again, having his servant with him, and a couple of asses: and she brought him into her father's house: and when the father of the damsel saw him, he rejoiced to meet him."
Notice this concubine played the whore ….. not played the Harlot, but here we see the term “WHORE”, this is very important in the OUTCOME of this story. as we read the man came to her father’s house, and was delayed for three even unto five days, and finally he left her father’s house with his concubine and servants. now this is where the story here began, to show the meaning of the crime which is like the Lot scenario. Judges 19:10 "But the man would not tarry that night, but he rose up and departed, and came over against Jebus, which is Jerusalem; and there were with him two asses saddled, his concubine also was with him." Judges 19:11 "And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it."
Judges 19:12 "And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah."
Judges 19:13 "And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah."
Judges 19:14 "And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin."
Judges 19:15 "And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging."
Judges 19:16 "And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites."
Judges 19:17 "And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?"
Judges 19:18 "And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house."
Judges 19:19 "Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing."
Judges 19:20 "And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street."
Judges 19:21 "So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink."
Judges 19:22 "Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him." NOTICE “KNOW HIM”. the exact same words that the men used in the story of Genesis chapter 19. let’s go on.
Judges 19:23 "And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly."
KNOW HIM? let’s see the CRIME of to KNOW him.
Judges 19:22 "Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him." Judges 19:23 "And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly."
we see the same scenario with Lot, but the men of the city want to KNOW HIM. let’s see the CRIME. it is found in the term “FOLLY”
Folly: H5039 נְבָלָה nbalah (neɓ-aw-law') n-f.
1. foolishness.
2. (morally) wickedness.
3. (concretely) a crime.
4. (by extension) punishment.
[feminine of H5036]
KJV: folly, vile, villany.
Root(s): H5036
take notice of Definition #4. (by extension) punishment. these men was going to do to this man what the men of the city where Lot was, to do to the two men or angels, meaning to kill them. just as the definition from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance said. A primitive root; properly, to spoil (literally, by breaking to pieces); figuratively, to make (or be) good for nothing, i.e. Bad (physically, socially or morally) -- afflict, associate selves (by mistake for ra'ah), break (down, in pieces), + displease, (be, bring, do) evil (doer, entreat, man), show self friendly (by
mistake for ra'ah), do harm, (do) hurt, (behave self, deal) ill, X indeed, do mischief, punish, still, vex, (do) wicked (doer, -ly), be (deal, do) worse.
here we see the same term as the KJV can translate it as, “ punish” but the OLD MAN of the house, as with Lot threw them a road block, let’s see what it was. Judges 19:24 "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing." just as Lot did offered his two daughters. but protected the two men, (angels). we will get to this protection latter. but here the old man said take the two women, so that you cannot do this “VILE” thing, so what is the “vile” thing was to be done unto the travling man?
Vile: H5039 נְבָלָה nbalah (neɓ-aw-law') n-f.
1. foolishness.
2. (morally) wickedness.
3. (concretely) a crime.
4. (by extension) punishment.
[feminine of H5036]
KJV: folly, vile, villany.
Root(s): H5036
there is our answer. just as with the two men, (angels), in Genesis 19. the punishment was DEATH, the intent was to kill them depending on the INFORMATION or the KNOWLEDGE they can obtain from the angels/men as to why they were coming into their land. the men of the city wanted to “KNOW” their reason for coming to their city
KNOW: H3045 יָדַע yada` (yaw-dah') v.
1. (properly) to ascertain by seeing.
2. (generally) to know.
3. (used widely) to observe, care, recognize, etc.
4. (causatively, used widely) to instruct, designate, punish, etc.
{used in a great variety of senses: figuratively, literally, euphemistically, inferentially, and causatively.}
[a primitive root]
KJV: can translate KNOW as discern, discover, understand, have (understanding).
the men of the city wanted to know or discover their reason in coming to the city, and probably their association with Lot. and since Lot wanted to protect these men, (angels), their mood was to “DEAL WORSE” with Lot than with them.
Deal worse: it is the Hebrew words, H7489 רָעַע ra`a` (raw-ah') v.
1. (properly) to spoil.
2. (literally) to ruin by breaking to pieces.
3. (causative) to make good for nothing.
4. (figuratively) to be good for nothing.
5. (physically, socially or morally) to be bad.
[a primitive root]
KJV: afflict, associate selves (by mistake for H7462), break (down, in pieces), + displease, (be, bring, do) evil (doer, entreat, man), show self friendly (by mistake for H7462), do harm, (do) hurt, (behave self, deal) ill, X indeed, do mischief, punish, still, vex, (do) wicked (doer, -ly), be (deal, do) worse.
See also: H7462
but they could not, because, Just as the the Men of the city in Lot day, so likewise the men of the city …. the worse kind, murderers. that’s the wickedness to the crime. and to KNOW the men was their reason for coming to
the city, and as to WHO THEY WERE, yes, the reason why they have come. or if association to Lot, maybe to see if they could be bribed. if not….. to KILL them was their last option. why not Lot, …kill him also? but what was keep them in check? Lot uncle, Abram, for they seen what he could do in battle. for he, Abram smote all the kings that came against Sodom and Gomorrah. just read the account in Genesis chapter 14.
but back to the men here of the city in Judges. what was their crime? RAPE, and the abuse of a woman. lets see it by scriptures. the man concubine Judges 19:24 "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing."
the old man presented his virgin daughter, just as Lot did, and the man under his roof, his concubine, who played the “WHORE”. remember I said this is very important. well now we will see why,
Judges 19:25 "But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." THERE IS THE ANSWER. the men of the city took the concubine, and not the maiden. and what did the men do to this concubine, who played the “WHORE”. the scriptures said they “KNEW” her, notice KNEW, and not “KNOW” her. WHY? because this is after… PAST TENCE of the crime. so, let examine these terms “KNEW vs KNOW”, and “ABUSED”, and we will have our crime. notice, the scripture said, they “KNEW” her, not “KNOW” her, but “KNEW” her. meaning they had, (past tense), sex with her. let’s get educated.
"Knew" is the past tense form of the verb.
"Known" is the past participle form of the verb, used with auxiliary verbs.
The term KNEW is usually in reference to a “MARRIED” couple, who already had a sexual relationship. example, Genesis 4:1 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD." there is no place in the bible where it says a man KNOW a woman, or KNOW his wife in a sexual setting. knew is the past tense of KNOW, which means Adam had sex with his wife before. because now being kicked out of the garden, he now have carnal knowledge of her, his wife. which support our theme of “Adam and Eve having children in the garden before the fall”. now the term “Lay” with a woman, (unmarred) is sexual contact before marriage.
so, the term “KNOW” in Genesis 19 disqualifies any form of sexual contact in the case of the two angels that Lot took in. but here in Judges 19 it do because “KNEW” is after the fact of sexual contact. listen to the verse, Judges 19:25 "But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." so this after the fact….. past tense of KNOW, this … again is why we know that Adam and Eve had sex in the garden before the fall.
now the term ABUSE, it is the Hebrew term, H5953 עָלַל `alal (aw-lal') v.
1. to effect thoroughly.
2. (specifically) to glean (also figuratively).
3. (by implication) (in a bad sense) to overdo, i.e. maltreat, be saucy to, pain, impose (also literal).
[a primitive root]
KJV: abuse, affect, X child, defile, do, glean, mock, practise, thoroughly, work (wonderfully).
Definition #3 says in a bad sense. let’s see what the definition means involving a person, (in this case a woman).
Abuse: “violent treatment involving sexual assault, especially on a repeated basis”. also the above definition is also translated “ defile”. and if this woman was violated sexually, she was defiled, meaning biblically to making something unclean or impure, particularly in a ceremonial sense. The act of defilement can be seen as a great disrespect toward God or others, often associated with sin, idolatry, and sexual impurity. Overall, defilement in the biblical context highlights the importance of purity and holiness in one's relationship with God.
these men abused or defiled this woman all night long until daybreak, and these men was not Homosexual MALE, they KNEW her, or had sex with her as in a heterosexual way. “and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." and she died from the abuse, Judges 19:26 "Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light." Judges 19:27 "And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold." Judges 19:28 "And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ***, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place."
so this was a sexual act, (crime), against a woman by men who was Heterosexual MALES, but the men of Sodom was not Homosexual MALES. let see why.
The giving a daughter to a … “MALE”… homosexual? it don’t make any sense, for a male homosexual prefer, (in sex desire) males and not females.
To prove the point let’s look at this one word that many get hung up on, …. again the term “KNOW” in Chapter 19 of Genesis. as in to “know” them, the two men or angels under Lot roof. why do we think like this? because this is what, and the way we have taught well 101G ask us to renew our minds. let’s look at the verses in question.
Genesis 19:7 "And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly." Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof."
the term UNDER ONE’S ROOF is a symbol of protection and security. so, why Lot offered his daughters? was not Lot daughters married? let’s see. Genesis 19:12 "And the men (the angels) said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:" Genesis 19:13 "For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it." Genesis 19:14 "And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law."
well now, why not Lot send his sons-in-law out for the men to do what was good in their sight, (a sexual act). or why not send any male servant that was in his household. remember Lot had many males in his household, because this was one of the reason why he and his uncle Abram separate. so why the daughters if the men was homosexuals males? let’s examine why the woman or daughters, or “the Female” was offered to the crowd for sex? NO. let’s see why. again, the term to “KNOW” and not “KNEW” when the act is performed. so, KNOW is disqualified. because no act was performed… they was blinded before they could "KNOW" them. this is too easy.
so the accounts in Judges 19, they disqualify the use of to "KNOW" as a sexual act.
101G
STRANGE FLESH
(The wickedness in Israel as was in Sodom)
One of the complaints that many make is from Jude, where they say proves that what happen, (or tried to happen) with the two men or angels in Genesis chapter 19 was a Homosexual act, in the sexual arena of disobedience. if so then the men of Israel was experts in this behavior then. but let’s see what the sin was in Jude 1:7 concerning Sodom and Gomorrah?(The wickedness in Israel as was in Sodom)
Jude 1:7 makes two allegations. one against the fallen angels, and the other against the men of Sodom and Gomorrah, which will open our eyes as to what happen in and to the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. let’s breakdown Jude 1:7 and see the true sin.
Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." Jude 1:7 "Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."
so, we see these “TWO” charges. one directed at the fallen angels, and the other against the men of Sodom and Gomorrha, THAT THESE FILTHY DREAMERS WHO DID THE SAME. A, Spoke against authority. and B. defiled or went after strange flesh. scripture, Jude 1:8 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.“
Indictment #1. against THESE FILTHY DREAMERS, (WHO WALK AFTER THE FLESH) “Speaking evil of dignities” meaning a rebellion against authority. Jude 1:6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." this is the opposite of God ORDER, the devil and those who followed him REBELLED. and was accuser of the brethren, God children here on earth. but the good angels as LIKE Michael the archangel did not, meaning as Jude states, Jude 1:9 "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." this is what the charge, “speak evil of dignities”,the devil and the fallen angels did. but not Michael and the Good angels. they did not speak evil of God, nor want to overthrow God in corruption. but the rebellious angels did. so, they (the fallen angel) was cast out of heaven, meaning they left/or lost their first estate, and now are reserves for judgment. LIKEWISE THESE FILTHY DREAMERS DID THE SAME spoke evil of God and his people, (especially the Lord Jesus apostles, prophets teachers, ect… in REBELLION. as the apostle peter makes it clear what Jude is saying here. 2 Peter 2:10 "But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities." BINGO, exactly just what Jude said, 2 Peter 2:11 "Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord." 2 Peter 2:12 "But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;" 2 Peter 2:13 "And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;" 2 Peter 2:14 "Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:" 2 Peter 2:15 "Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;" THESE FILTHY DREAMERS DID THE SAME.
so, Indictment #1. is clearly seen of THESE FILTHY DREAMERS, as what the angels did, to speak evil of dignitie and despise government. meaning in opposition of God set order. let’s see it. Jude 1:8 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.”, just as the apostle said.
Now, Indictment #2. the sin of THESE FILTHY DREAMERS THAT WENT AFTER STRANGE FLESH, as was in Sodom and Gomorrah. now we will have our answer. Jude 1:8 "Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities." the term LIKEWISE means, “in the same way; also:” so in the same way or like manner, just as the angels which kept not their first estate, or fell from heaven, THESE FILTHY DREAMERS DID THE SAME, in defiling the Flesh. this is what strange flesh mean, this is the opposite of God ORDER. let’s break this down and clearly understand.
what is another word for defile? when used as a VERB “To engage in carnal activity, especially with a person unwilling or unable to give consent”, it means the following. rape, violate, debauch, deflower, molest, ravish, seduce, abuse, sexually assault, force yourself on, dishonor, sexually abuse, assault, indecently assault, take away someone's innocence, take advantage of, have your wicked way with force, date-rape gang-rape, abuse sexually bed outrage befoul despoil interfere with pop someone's cherry have one's evil way with have your way with lead astray pop the cherry ruin harass tumble have sex with sexually harass persuade someone to have sexual intercourse grope fondle fornicate ect…. these definition, and many more can be found at What is another word for defile? | Defile Synonyms - WordHippo Thesaurus
Well now, we see what, “to go after strange flesh”, means, to defile the flesh. the bible answer itself if one just follow the Holy Spirit teaching. knowing this, we see the sins of Sodom and Gomorrha and what got them …. “BURNT” to an asunder as a example. keeping Indictment #2 in mind, let’s see this clearly in the book of Judges chapter 19. because, the term “abuse, and sexually assault will clearly be see in our next example of what happen in genesis chapter 19. and our proof is in the book of Judges chapter 19.
The Book of Judges
(Chapter 19 the confirming story to understand Genesis chapter 19)
We suggest the teacher and student to read the entirety of Judges chapter 19. we will deal with the verses within the chapter to make our point, but it is necessary to read the whole entire chapter for our edification, as well as the whole book. by understanding the 19th chapter of Judges, (which has a sexual assault by the mob or the men of the city), we can clearly see the mistake made by many in Genesis chapter 19. (Chapter 19 the confirming story to understand Genesis chapter 19)
Judges 19:1-3 "And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehemjudah." "And his concubine played the whore against him, and went away from him unto her father's house to Bethlehemjudah, and was there four whole months." "And her husband arose, and went after her, to speak friendly unto her, and to bring her again, having his servant with him, and a couple of asses: and she brought him into her father's house: and when the father of the damsel saw him, he rejoiced to meet him."
Notice this concubine played the whore ….. not played the Harlot, but here we see the term “WHORE”, this is very important in the OUTCOME of this story. as we read the man came to her father’s house, and was delayed for three even unto five days, and finally he left her father’s house with his concubine and servants. now this is where the story here began, to show the meaning of the crime which is like the Lot scenario. Judges 19:10 "But the man would not tarry that night, but he rose up and departed, and came over against Jebus, which is Jerusalem; and there were with him two asses saddled, his concubine also was with him." Judges 19:11 "And when they were by Jebus, the day was far spent; and the servant said unto his master, Come, I pray thee, and let us turn in into this city of the Jebusites, and lodge in it."
Judges 19:12 "And his master said unto him, We will not turn aside hither into the city of a stranger, that is not of the children of Israel; we will pass over to Gibeah."
Judges 19:13 "And he said unto his servant, Come, and let us draw near to one of these places to lodge all night, in Gibeah, or in Ramah."
Judges 19:14 "And they passed on and went their way; and the sun went down upon them when they were by Gibeah, which belongeth to Benjamin."
Judges 19:15 "And they turned aside thither, to go in and to lodge in Gibeah: and when he went in, he sat him down in a street of the city: for there was no man that took them into his house to lodging."
Judges 19:16 "And, behold, there came an old man from his work out of the field at even, which was also of mount Ephraim; and he sojourned in Gibeah: but the men of the place were Benjamites."
Judges 19:17 "And when he had lifted up his eyes, he saw a wayfaring man in the street of the city: and the old man said, Whither goest thou? and whence comest thou?"
Judges 19:18 "And he said unto him, We are passing from Bethlehemjudah toward the side of mount Ephraim; from thence am I: and I went to Bethlehemjudah, but I am now going to the house of the LORD; and there is no man that receiveth me to house."
Judges 19:19 "Yet there is both straw and provender for our asses; and there is bread and wine also for me, and for thy handmaid, and for the young man which is with thy servants: there is no want of any thing."
Judges 19:20 "And the old man said, Peace be with thee; howsoever let all thy wants lie upon me; only lodge not in the street."
Judges 19:21 "So he brought him into his house, and gave provender unto the asses: and they washed their feet, and did eat and drink."
Judges 19:22 "Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him." NOTICE “KNOW HIM”. the exact same words that the men used in the story of Genesis chapter 19. let’s go on.
Judges 19:23 "And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly."
KNOW HIM? let’s see the CRIME of to KNOW him.
Judges 19:22 "Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him." Judges 19:23 "And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly."
we see the same scenario with Lot, but the men of the city want to KNOW HIM. let’s see the CRIME. it is found in the term “FOLLY”
Folly: H5039 נְבָלָה nbalah (neɓ-aw-law') n-f.
1. foolishness.
2. (morally) wickedness.
3. (concretely) a crime.
4. (by extension) punishment.
[feminine of H5036]
KJV: folly, vile, villany.
Root(s): H5036
take notice of Definition #4. (by extension) punishment. these men was going to do to this man what the men of the city where Lot was, to do to the two men or angels, meaning to kill them. just as the definition from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance said. A primitive root; properly, to spoil (literally, by breaking to pieces); figuratively, to make (or be) good for nothing, i.e. Bad (physically, socially or morally) -- afflict, associate selves (by mistake for ra'ah), break (down, in pieces), + displease, (be, bring, do) evil (doer, entreat, man), show self friendly (by
mistake for ra'ah), do harm, (do) hurt, (behave self, deal) ill, X indeed, do mischief, punish, still, vex, (do) wicked (doer, -ly), be (deal, do) worse.
here we see the same term as the KJV can translate it as, “ punish” but the OLD MAN of the house, as with Lot threw them a road block, let’s see what it was. Judges 19:24 "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing." just as Lot did offered his two daughters. but protected the two men, (angels). we will get to this protection latter. but here the old man said take the two women, so that you cannot do this “VILE” thing, so what is the “vile” thing was to be done unto the travling man?
Vile: H5039 נְבָלָה nbalah (neɓ-aw-law') n-f.
1. foolishness.
2. (morally) wickedness.
3. (concretely) a crime.
4. (by extension) punishment.
[feminine of H5036]
KJV: folly, vile, villany.
Root(s): H5036
there is our answer. just as with the two men, (angels), in Genesis 19. the punishment was DEATH, the intent was to kill them depending on the INFORMATION or the KNOWLEDGE they can obtain from the angels/men as to why they were coming into their land. the men of the city wanted to “KNOW” their reason for coming to their city
KNOW: H3045 יָדַע yada` (yaw-dah') v.
1. (properly) to ascertain by seeing.
2. (generally) to know.
3. (used widely) to observe, care, recognize, etc.
4. (causatively, used widely) to instruct, designate, punish, etc.
{used in a great variety of senses: figuratively, literally, euphemistically, inferentially, and causatively.}
[a primitive root]
KJV: can translate KNOW as discern, discover, understand, have (understanding).
the men of the city wanted to know or discover their reason in coming to the city, and probably their association with Lot. and since Lot wanted to protect these men, (angels), their mood was to “DEAL WORSE” with Lot than with them.
Deal worse: it is the Hebrew words, H7489 רָעַע ra`a` (raw-ah') v.
1. (properly) to spoil.
2. (literally) to ruin by breaking to pieces.
3. (causative) to make good for nothing.
4. (figuratively) to be good for nothing.
5. (physically, socially or morally) to be bad.
[a primitive root]
KJV: afflict, associate selves (by mistake for H7462), break (down, in pieces), + displease, (be, bring, do) evil (doer, entreat, man), show self friendly (by mistake for H7462), do harm, (do) hurt, (behave self, deal) ill, X indeed, do mischief, punish, still, vex, (do) wicked (doer, -ly), be (deal, do) worse.
See also: H7462
but they could not, because, Just as the the Men of the city in Lot day, so likewise the men of the city …. the worse kind, murderers. that’s the wickedness to the crime. and to KNOW the men was their reason for coming to
the city, and as to WHO THEY WERE, yes, the reason why they have come. or if association to Lot, maybe to see if they could be bribed. if not….. to KILL them was their last option. why not Lot, …kill him also? but what was keep them in check? Lot uncle, Abram, for they seen what he could do in battle. for he, Abram smote all the kings that came against Sodom and Gomorrah. just read the account in Genesis chapter 14.
but back to the men here of the city in Judges. what was their crime? RAPE, and the abuse of a woman. lets see it by scriptures. the man concubine Judges 19:24 "Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing."
the old man presented his virgin daughter, just as Lot did, and the man under his roof, his concubine, who played the “WHORE”. remember I said this is very important. well now we will see why,
Judges 19:25 "But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." THERE IS THE ANSWER. the men of the city took the concubine, and not the maiden. and what did the men do to this concubine, who played the “WHORE”. the scriptures said they “KNEW” her, notice KNEW, and not “KNOW” her. WHY? because this is after… PAST TENCE of the crime. so, let examine these terms “KNEW vs KNOW”, and “ABUSED”, and we will have our crime. notice, the scripture said, they “KNEW” her, not “KNOW” her, but “KNEW” her. meaning they had, (past tense), sex with her. let’s get educated.
What's the Difference between KNEW and KNOW?
"Know" is the present tense form of the verb."Knew" is the past tense form of the verb.
"Known" is the past participle form of the verb, used with auxiliary verbs.
The term KNEW is usually in reference to a “MARRIED” couple, who already had a sexual relationship. example, Genesis 4:1 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD." there is no place in the bible where it says a man KNOW a woman, or KNOW his wife in a sexual setting. knew is the past tense of KNOW, which means Adam had sex with his wife before. because now being kicked out of the garden, he now have carnal knowledge of her, his wife. which support our theme of “Adam and Eve having children in the garden before the fall”. now the term “Lay” with a woman, (unmarred) is sexual contact before marriage.
so, the term “KNOW” in Genesis 19 disqualifies any form of sexual contact in the case of the two angels that Lot took in. but here in Judges 19 it do because “KNEW” is after the fact of sexual contact. listen to the verse, Judges 19:25 "But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." so this after the fact….. past tense of KNOW, this … again is why we know that Adam and Eve had sex in the garden before the fall.
now the term ABUSE, it is the Hebrew term, H5953 עָלַל `alal (aw-lal') v.
1. to effect thoroughly.
2. (specifically) to glean (also figuratively).
3. (by implication) (in a bad sense) to overdo, i.e. maltreat, be saucy to, pain, impose (also literal).
[a primitive root]
KJV: abuse, affect, X child, defile, do, glean, mock, practise, thoroughly, work (wonderfully).
Definition #3 says in a bad sense. let’s see what the definition means involving a person, (in this case a woman).
Abuse: “violent treatment involving sexual assault, especially on a repeated basis”. also the above definition is also translated “ defile”. and if this woman was violated sexually, she was defiled, meaning biblically to making something unclean or impure, particularly in a ceremonial sense. The act of defilement can be seen as a great disrespect toward God or others, often associated with sin, idolatry, and sexual impurity. Overall, defilement in the biblical context highlights the importance of purity and holiness in one's relationship with God.
these men abused or defiled this woman all night long until daybreak, and these men was not Homosexual MALE, they KNEW her, or had sex with her as in a heterosexual way. “and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go." and she died from the abuse, Judges 19:26 "Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light." Judges 19:27 "And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold." Judges 19:28 "And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ***, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place."
so this was a sexual act, (crime), against a woman by men who was Heterosexual MALES, but the men of Sodom was not Homosexual MALES. let see why.
Why give a Daughter, (Female), to a Homosexual (MALE)?
The giving a daughter to a … “MALE”… homosexual? it don’t make any sense, for a male homosexual prefer, (in sex desire) males and not females.
To prove the point let’s look at this one word that many get hung up on, …. again the term “KNOW” in Chapter 19 of Genesis. as in to “know” them, the two men or angels under Lot roof. why do we think like this? because this is what, and the way we have taught well 101G ask us to renew our minds. let’s look at the verses in question.
Genesis 19:7 "And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly." Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof."
the term UNDER ONE’S ROOF is a symbol of protection and security. so, why Lot offered his daughters? was not Lot daughters married? let’s see. Genesis 19:12 "And the men (the angels) said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:" Genesis 19:13 "For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it." Genesis 19:14 "And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law."
well now, why not Lot send his sons-in-law out for the men to do what was good in their sight, (a sexual act). or why not send any male servant that was in his household. remember Lot had many males in his household, because this was one of the reason why he and his uncle Abram separate. so why the daughters if the men was homosexuals males? let’s examine why the woman or daughters, or “the Female” was offered to the crowd for sex? NO. let’s see why. again, the term to “KNOW” and not “KNEW” when the act is performed. so, KNOW is disqualified. because no act was performed… they was blinded before they could "KNOW" them. this is too easy.
so the accounts in Judges 19, they disqualify the use of to "KNOW" as a sexual act.
101G
dwight92070
Active Member
You really ought to learn English. That should be "Were the Men of Sodom Homosexual?"
101G
Active Member
thanks, that's 101G point..... "WERE" past tense ..... was they? ... (smile)
101G.
Lot’s daughters were virgins; not having known a man.
The deranged homosexuals were lusting after these new “men” not realizing they were angels.
101G
Active Member
GINOLJC, to all.
"not realizing they were angels"? JLB think man, Genesis 19:5 "And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them." we need to acquire what KNOW means here in CONTEXT of the scriptures. below is the definition of the word,
KNOW: H3045 יָדַע yada` (yaw-dah') v.
1. (properly) to ascertain by seeing.
2. (generally) to know.
3. (used widely) to observe, care, recognize, etc.
4. (to instruct, designate, punish, etc.
{used in a great variety of senses: figuratively, literally, euphemistically, inferentially, and causatively.}
[a primitive root]
KJV: acknowledge, acquaintance(-ted with), advise, answer, appoint, assuredly, be aware, (un-)awares, can(-not), certainly, comprehend, consider, X could they, cunning, declare, be diligent, (can, cause to) discern, discover, endued with, familiar friend, famous, feel, can have, be (ig-)norant, instruct, kinsfolk, kinsman, (cause to let, make) know, (come to give, have, take) knowledge, have (knowledge), (be, make, make to be, make self) known, + be learned, + lie by man, mark, perceive, privy to, X prognosticator, regard, have respect, skilful, shew, can (man of) skill, be sure, of a surety, teach, (can) tell, understand, have (understanding), X will be, wist, wit, wot.
JLB, nowhere in this definition it even comes close to any sexual act at all. but let's LOOK at CONTEXT, and we will find out what was to be done toward these men, (angels). ok, is this not reasonable?
Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof." Genesis 19:9 "And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door."
JLB, in CONTEXT we have our answer, " now will we deal worse with thee, than with them". QUESTION, "did the men of the city NOW .... NOW, NOW, want to have sex with Lot more than or worse than the two me, (angels?). LET'S see what "deal worse" means and we will have our answer to what they wanted to do to ... NOW, Lot and the two men.
deal worse" it is the Hebrew words,
H7489 רָעַע ra`a` (raw-ah') v.
1. (properly) to spoil.
2. (literally) to ruin by breaking to pieces.
3. (causative) to make good for nothing.
4. (figuratively) to be good for nothing.
5. (physically, socially or morally) to be bad.
[a primitive root]
KJV: afflict, associate selves (by mistake for H7462), break (down, in pieces), + displease, (be, bring, do) evil (doer, entreat, man), show self friendly (by mistake for H7462), do harm, (do) hurt, (behave self, deal) ill, X indeed, do mischief, punish, still, vex, (do) wicked (doer, -ly), be (deal, do) worse.
See also: H7462
we can clearly see that there is no reference to any sex act, if anything murder, to kill. because to "do harm" or hurt, as the definition can be translated as, HARM when used "Physical damage caused to something", is synonyms with ruin, abuse, defilement, poisoning, demolition, dismantling, death, yes DEATH. this can be found at https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/harm.html#C0-18
so the CONTEXT of the verses reveals that the men wanted to do bodily harm and not have sex with them, (Lot or the two men, the angels).
the scriptures are not changing, you and all must deal with the CONTEX of the TRUTH in these verses above.
if you cannot reason that out..... then leave it alone until you can reason it out. ... ok.
101G.
MTMattie
Active Member
Wrong.
2006 Contemporary Torah
19
וַ֠יָּבֹ֠אוּ שְׁנֵ֨י הַמַּלְאָכִ֤ים סְדֹ֙מָה֙ בָּעֶ֔רֶב וְל֖וֹט יֹשֵׁ֣ב בְּשַֽׁעַר־סְדֹ֑ם וַיַּרְא־לוֹט֙ וַיָּ֣קׇם לִקְרָאתָ֔ם וַיִּשְׁתַּ֥חוּ אַפַּ֖יִם אָֽרְצָה׃
The two messengers arrived in Sodom in the evening, as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to greet them and, bowing low with his face to the ground,
וַיֹּ֜אמֶר הִנֶּ֣ה נָּא־אֲדֹנַ֗י ס֣וּרוּ נָ֠א אֶל־בֵּ֨ית עַבְדְּכֶ֤ם וְלִ֙ינוּ֙ וְרַחֲצ֣וּ רַגְלֵיכֶ֔ם וְהִשְׁכַּמְתֶּ֖ם וַהֲלַכְתֶּ֣ם לְדַרְכְּכֶ֑ם וַיֹּאמְר֣וּ לֹּ֔א כִּ֥י בָרְח֖וֹב נָלִֽין׃
he said, “Please, my lords, turn aside to your servant’s house to spend the night, and bathe your feet; then you may be on your way early.” But they said, “No, we will spend the night in the square.”
וַיִּפְצַר־בָּ֣ם מְאֹ֔ד וַיָּסֻ֣רוּ אֵלָ֔יו וַיָּבֹ֖אוּ אֶל־בֵּית֑וֹ וַיַּ֤עַשׂ לָהֶם֙ מִשְׁתֶּ֔ה וּמַצּ֥וֹת אָפָ֖ה וַיֹּאכֵֽלוּ׃
But he urged them strongly, so they turned his way and entered his house. He prepared a feast for them and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.
טֶ֘רֶם֮ יִשְׁכָּ֒בוּ֒ וְאַנְשֵׁ֨י הָעִ֜יר אַנְשֵׁ֤י סְדֹם֙ נָסַ֣בּוּ עַל־הַבַּ֔יִת מִנַּ֖עַר וְעַד־זָקֵ֑ן כׇּל־הָעָ֖ם מִקָּצֶֽה׃
They had not yet lain down, when the town council [and] the militia of Sodom —insignificant and influential alike, the whole assembly without exception—gathered about the house.
וַיִּקְרְא֤וּ אֶל־לוֹט֙ וַיֹּ֣אמְרוּ ל֔וֹ אַיֵּ֧ה הָאֲנָשִׁ֛ים אֲשֶׁר־בָּ֥אוּ אֵלֶ֖יךָ הַלָּ֑יְלָה הוֹצִיאֵ֣ם אֵלֵ֔ינוּ וְנֵדְעָ֖ה אֹתָֽם׃
And they shouted to Lot and said to him, “Where are the ones who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may be intimate with them.”
Bereshit Genesis
| 1And the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom, and Lot saw and arose toward them, and he prostrated himself on his face to the ground. | |
| 2And he said, "Behold now my lords, please turn to your servant's house and stay overnight and wash your feet, and you shall arise early and go on your way." And they said, "No, but we will stay overnight in the street." | |
| 3And he urged them strongly, and they turned in to him, and came into his house, and he made them a feast, and he baked unleavened cakes, and they ate. | |
| 4When they had not yet retired, and the people of the city, the people of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, the entire populace from every end [of the city]. | |
| 5And they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, and let us be intimate with them." |
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אוַ֠יָּבֹ֠אוּ שְׁנֵ֨י הַמַּלְאָכִ֤ים סְדֹ֨מָה֙ בָּעֶ֔רֶב וְל֖וֹט ישֵׁ֣ב בְּשַֽׁעַר־סְדֹ֑ם וַיַּרְא־לוֹט֙ וַיָּ֣קָם לִקְרָאתָ֔ם וַיִּשְׁתַּ֥חוּ אַפַּ֖יִם אָֽרְצָה:
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בוַיֹּ֜אמֶר הִנֶּ֣ה נָּֽא־אֲדֹנַ֗י ס֣וּרוּ נָ֠א אֶל־בֵּ֨ית עַבְדְּכֶ֤ם וְלִ֨ינוּ֙ וְרַֽחֲצ֣וּ רַגְלֵיכֶ֔ם וְהִשְׁכַּמְתֶּ֖ם וַֽהֲלַכְתֶּ֣ם לְדַרְכְּכֶ֑ם וַיֹּֽאמְר֣וּ לֹּ֔א כִּ֥י בָֽרְח֖וֹב נָלִֽין:
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גוַיִּפְצַר־בָּ֣ם מְאֹ֔ד וַיָּסֻ֣רוּ אֵלָ֔יו וַיָּבֹ֖אוּ אֶל־בֵּית֑וֹ וַיַּ֤עַשׂ לָהֶם֙ מִשְׁתֶּ֔ה וּמַצּ֥וֹת אָפָ֖ה וַיֹּאכֵֽלוּ:
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דטֶ֘רֶם֘ יִשְׁכָּ֒בוּ֒ וְאַנְשֵׁ֨י הָעִ֜יר אַנְשֵׁ֤י סְדֹם֙ נָסַ֣בּוּ עַל־הַבַּ֔יִת מִנַּ֖עַר וְעַד־זָקֵ֑ן כָּל־הָעָ֖ם מִקָּצֶֽה:
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הוַיִּקְרְא֤וּ אֶל־לוֹט֙ וַיֹּ֣אמְרוּ ל֔וֹ אַיֵּ֧ה הָֽאֲנָשִׁ֛ים אֲשֶׁר־בָּ֥אוּ אֵלֶ֖יךָ הַלָּ֑יְלָה הֽוֹצִיאֵ֣ם אֵלֵ֔ינוּ וְנֵֽדְעָ֖ה אֹתָֽם:
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אוַ֠יָּבֹ֠אוּ שְׁנֵ֨י הַמַּלְאָכִ֤ים סְדֹ֨מָה֙ בָּעֶ֔רֶב וְל֖וֹט ישֵׁ֣ב בְּשַֽׁעַר־סְדֹ֑ם וַיַּרְא־לוֹט֙ וַיָּ֣קָם לִקְרָאתָ֔ם וַיִּשְׁתַּ֥חוּ אַפַּ֖יִם אָֽרְצָה:
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בוַיֹּ֜אמֶר הִנֶּ֣ה נָּֽא־אֲדֹנַ֗י ס֣וּרוּ נָ֠א אֶל־בֵּ֨ית עַבְדְּכֶ֤ם וְלִ֨ינוּ֙ וְרַֽחֲצ֣וּ רַגְלֵיכֶ֔ם וְהִשְׁכַּמְתֶּ֖ם וַֽהֲלַכְתֶּ֣ם לְדַרְכְּכֶ֑ם וַיֹּֽאמְר֣וּ לֹּ֔א כִּ֥י בָֽרְח֖וֹב נָלִֽין:
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גוַיִּפְצַר־בָּ֣ם מְאֹ֔ד וַיָּסֻ֣רוּ אֵלָ֔יו וַיָּבֹ֖אוּ אֶל־בֵּית֑וֹ וַיַּ֤עַשׂ לָהֶם֙ מִשְׁתֶּ֔ה וּמַצּ֥וֹת אָפָ֖ה וַיֹּאכֵֽלוּ:
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דטֶ֘רֶם֘ יִשְׁכָּ֒בוּ֒ וְאַנְשֵׁ֨י הָעִ֜יר אַנְשֵׁ֤י סְדֹם֙ נָסַ֣בּוּ עַל־הַבַּ֔יִת מִנַּ֖עַר וְעַד־זָקֵ֑ן כָּל־הָעָ֖ם מִקָּצֶֽה:
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הוַיִּקְרְא֤וּ אֶל־לוֹט֙ וַיֹּ֣אמְרוּ ל֔וֹ אַיֵּ֧ה הָֽאֲנָשִׁ֛ים אֲשֶׁר־בָּ֥אוּ אֵלֶ֖יךָ הַלָּ֑יְלָה הֽוֹצִיאֵ֣ם אֵלֵ֔ינוּ וְנֵֽדְעָ֖ה אֹתָֽם:
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And from Bible Hub
New International Version
They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
New Living Translation
They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!”
Berean Standard Bible
They called out to Lot, saying, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so we can have relations with them!”
New King James Version
And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”
New American Standard Bible
and they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.”
NASB 1995
and they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.”
NASB 1977
and they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.”
Christian Standard Bible
They called out to Lot and said, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so we can have sex with them! ”
Holman Christian Standard Bible
They called out to Lot and said, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so we can have sex with them!”
Contemporary English Version
and started shouting, "Where are your visitors? Send them out, so we can have sex with them!"
GOD'S WORD® Translation
They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to [stay with] you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them."
Good News Translation
They called out to Lot and asked, "Where are the men who came to stay with you tonight? Bring them out to us!" The men of Sodom wanted to have sex with them.
International Standard Version
They called out to Lot and asked, "Where are the men who came to visit you tonight? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!"
NET Bible
They shouted to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!"
New Heart English Bible
They called to Lot, and said to him, "Where are the men who came in to you this night? Bring them out to us, that we may have sex with them."
Majority Standard Bible
They called out to Lot, saying, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so we can have relations with them!”
World English Bible
They called to Lot, and said to him, “Where are the men who came in to you this night? Bring them out to us, that we may have sex with them.”
New American Bible
They called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have sexual relations with them.”
Brenton Septuagint Translation
And they called out Lot, and said to him, Where are the men that went in to thee this night? bring them out to us that we may be with them.
101G
Active Member
@MTMattie, please tell us what "deal worse" here in these verses mean?
From Bible Hub, https://biblehub.com/genesis/19-9.htm
◄ Genesis 19:9 ►
Audio Cross Study Comm Heb
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
“Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
New Living Translation
“Stand back!” they shouted. “This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he’s acting like our judge! We’ll treat you far worse than those other men!” And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door.
English Standard Version
But they said, “Stand back!” And they said, “This fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door down.
Berean Standard Bible
“Get out of the way!” they replied. And they declared, “This one came here as a foreigner, and he is already acting like a judge! Now we will treat you worse than them.” And they pressed in on Lot and moved in to break down the door.
King James Bible
And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
New King James Version
And they said, “Stand back!” Then they said, “This one came in to stay here, and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them.” So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door.
New American Standard Bible
But they said, “Get out of the way!” They also said, “This one came in as a foreigner, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them!” So they pressed hard against Lot and moved forward to break the door.
NASB 1995
But they said, “Stand aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them.” So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
NASB 1977
But they said, “Stand aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them.” So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
Legacy Standard Bible
But they said, “Step aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came to sojourn, and already he is persistently acting like a judge; now we will treat you more wickedly than them.” So they pressed hard against Lot and stepped up to break the door.
Amplified Bible
But they said, “Get out of the way!” And they said, “This man (Lot) came [as an outsider] to live here temporarily, and now he is acting like a judge. Now we will treat you worse than your visitors!” So they rushed forward and pressed violently against Lot and came close to breaking down the door [of his house].
Christian Standard Bible
“Get out of the way! ” they said, adding, “This one came here as an alien, but he’s acting like a judge! Now we’ll do more harm to you than to them.” They put pressure on Lot and came up to break down the door.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Get out of the way!” they said, adding, “This one came here as a foreigner, but he’s acting like a judge! Now we’ll do more harm to you than to them.” They put pressure on Lot and came up to break down the door.
American Standard Version
And they said, Stand back. And they said, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and drew near to break the door.
Contemporary English Version
"Don't get in our way," the crowd answered. "You're a foreigner. What right do you have to order us around? We'll do worse things to you than we're going to do to them." The crowd kept arguing with Lot. Finally, they rushed toward the door to break it down.
English Revised Version
And they said, Stand back. And they said, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and drew near to break the door.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
But the men yelled, "Get out of the way! This man came here to stay awhile. Now he wants to be our judge! We're going to treat you worse than those men." They pushed hard against Lot and lunged forward to break down the door.
Good News Translation
But they said, "Get out of our way, you foreigner! Who are you to tell us what to do? Out of our way, or we will treat you worse than them." They pushed Lot back and moved up to break down the door.
International Standard Version
But they replied, "Get out of the way! This man came here as a foreigner, and now he's acting like a judge! So we're going to deal more harshly with you than with them." Then they pushed hard against the man (that is, against Lot), intending to break down the door.
NET Bible
"Out of our way!" they cried, and "This man came to live here as a foreigner, and now he dares to judge us! We'll do more harm to you than to them!" They kept pressing in on Lot until they were close enough to break down the door.
New Heart English Bible
They said, "Stand back." They said, "This one fellow came in to live as a foreigner, and he appoints himself a judge. Now will we deal worse with you, than with them." They pressed hard on the man Lot, and drew near to break the door.
Webster's Bible Translation
And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one man came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: Now will we deal worse with thee than with them. And they pressed hard upon the man, Lot, and came near to break the door.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
“Get out of the way!” they replied. And they declared, “This one came here as a foreigner, and he is already acting like a judge! Now we will treat you worse than them.” And they pressed in on Lot and moved in to break down the door.
World English Bible
They said, “Stand back!” Then they said, “This one fellow came in to live as a foreigner, and he appoints himself a judge. Now we will deal worse with you than with them!” They pressed hard on the man Lot, and came near to break the door.
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
And they say, “Come near here”; they also say, “This one has come to sojourn, and he certainly judges! Now, we do evil to you more than [to] them”; and they press against the man, against Lot greatly, and come near to break the door.
Young's Literal Translation
And they say, 'Come nigh hither;' they say also, 'This one hath come in to sojourn, and he certainly judgeth! now, we do evil to thee more than to them;' and they press against the man, against Lot greatly, and come nigh to break the door.
Smith's Literal Translation
And they will say, Stand off. And they will say, This same came to sojourn, and shall he judge judgment: now will we do evil to thee above them: and they will press upon the man, upon Lot greatly, and they will come near to break the door.
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
But they said: Get thee back thither. And again: Thou camest in, said they, as a, stranger, was it to be a judge? therefore we will afflict thee more than them. 0 And they pressed very violently upon Lot: and they were even at the point of breaking open the doors.
Catholic Public Domain Version
But they said, “Move away from there.” And again: “You have entered,” they said, “as a stranger; should you then judge? Therefore, we will afflict you yourself more than them.” And they acted very violently against Lot. And they were now at the point of breaking open the doors.
New American Bible
They replied, “Stand back! This man,” they said, “came here as a resident alien, and now he dares to give orders! We will treat you worse than them!” With that, they pressed hard against Lot, moving in closer to break down the door.
New Revised Standard Version
But they replied, “Stand back!” And they said, “This fellow came here as an alien, and he would play the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near the door to break it down.
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
And they said, Get away. And they said again, This fellow came to sojourn among us, and now he tries to judge us; and they said to Lot, Now we will deal worse with you than with them. Then Lot fought desperately with them, and they drew near to break the door.
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
And they said, “Get back!” and they said, “One came to dwell with us and behold, the Judge judges us; now we will do worse to you than to them”, and Lot fought with the men greatly, and they approached to break down the door.
OT Translations
JPS Tanakh 1917
And they said: 'Stand back.' And they said: 'This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs play the judge; now will we deal worse with thee, than with them.' And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and drew near to break the door.
Brenton Septuagint Translation
And they said to him, Stand back there, thou camest in to sojourn, was it also to judge? Now then we would harm thee more than them. And they pressed hard on the man, even Lot, and they drew nigh to break the door.
From Bible Hub, https://biblehub.com/genesis/19-9.htm
◄ Genesis 19:9 ►
Audio Cross Study Comm Heb
Verse (Click for Chapter)
New International Version
“Get out of our way,” they replied. “This fellow came here as a foreigner, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door.
New Living Translation
“Stand back!” they shouted. “This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he’s acting like our judge! We’ll treat you far worse than those other men!” And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door.
English Standard Version
But they said, “Stand back!” And they said, “This fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door down.
Berean Standard Bible
“Get out of the way!” they replied. And they declared, “This one came here as a foreigner, and he is already acting like a judge! Now we will treat you worse than them.” And they pressed in on Lot and moved in to break down the door.
King James Bible
And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
New King James Version
And they said, “Stand back!” Then they said, “This one came in to stay here, and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them.” So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door.
New American Standard Bible
But they said, “Get out of the way!” They also said, “This one came in as a foreigner, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them!” So they pressed hard against Lot and moved forward to break the door.
NASB 1995
But they said, “Stand aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them.” So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
NASB 1977
But they said, “Stand aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them.” So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
Legacy Standard Bible
But they said, “Step aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came to sojourn, and already he is persistently acting like a judge; now we will treat you more wickedly than them.” So they pressed hard against Lot and stepped up to break the door.
Amplified Bible
But they said, “Get out of the way!” And they said, “This man (Lot) came [as an outsider] to live here temporarily, and now he is acting like a judge. Now we will treat you worse than your visitors!” So they rushed forward and pressed violently against Lot and came close to breaking down the door [of his house].
Christian Standard Bible
“Get out of the way! ” they said, adding, “This one came here as an alien, but he’s acting like a judge! Now we’ll do more harm to you than to them.” They put pressure on Lot and came up to break down the door.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Get out of the way!” they said, adding, “This one came here as a foreigner, but he’s acting like a judge! Now we’ll do more harm to you than to them.” They put pressure on Lot and came up to break down the door.
American Standard Version
And they said, Stand back. And they said, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and drew near to break the door.
Contemporary English Version
"Don't get in our way," the crowd answered. "You're a foreigner. What right do you have to order us around? We'll do worse things to you than we're going to do to them." The crowd kept arguing with Lot. Finally, they rushed toward the door to break it down.
English Revised Version
And they said, Stand back. And they said, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and drew near to break the door.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
But the men yelled, "Get out of the way! This man came here to stay awhile. Now he wants to be our judge! We're going to treat you worse than those men." They pushed hard against Lot and lunged forward to break down the door.
Good News Translation
But they said, "Get out of our way, you foreigner! Who are you to tell us what to do? Out of our way, or we will treat you worse than them." They pushed Lot back and moved up to break down the door.
International Standard Version
But they replied, "Get out of the way! This man came here as a foreigner, and now he's acting like a judge! So we're going to deal more harshly with you than with them." Then they pushed hard against the man (that is, against Lot), intending to break down the door.
NET Bible
"Out of our way!" they cried, and "This man came to live here as a foreigner, and now he dares to judge us! We'll do more harm to you than to them!" They kept pressing in on Lot until they were close enough to break down the door.
New Heart English Bible
They said, "Stand back." They said, "This one fellow came in to live as a foreigner, and he appoints himself a judge. Now will we deal worse with you, than with them." They pressed hard on the man Lot, and drew near to break the door.
Webster's Bible Translation
And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one man came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: Now will we deal worse with thee than with them. And they pressed hard upon the man, Lot, and came near to break the door.
Majority Text Translations
Majority Standard Bible
“Get out of the way!” they replied. And they declared, “This one came here as a foreigner, and he is already acting like a judge! Now we will treat you worse than them.” And they pressed in on Lot and moved in to break down the door.
World English Bible
They said, “Stand back!” Then they said, “This one fellow came in to live as a foreigner, and he appoints himself a judge. Now we will deal worse with you than with them!” They pressed hard on the man Lot, and came near to break the door.
Literal Translations
Literal Standard Version
And they say, “Come near here”; they also say, “This one has come to sojourn, and he certainly judges! Now, we do evil to you more than [to] them”; and they press against the man, against Lot greatly, and come near to break the door.
Young's Literal Translation
And they say, 'Come nigh hither;' they say also, 'This one hath come in to sojourn, and he certainly judgeth! now, we do evil to thee more than to them;' and they press against the man, against Lot greatly, and come nigh to break the door.
Smith's Literal Translation
And they will say, Stand off. And they will say, This same came to sojourn, and shall he judge judgment: now will we do evil to thee above them: and they will press upon the man, upon Lot greatly, and they will come near to break the door.
Catholic Translations
Douay-Rheims Bible
But they said: Get thee back thither. And again: Thou camest in, said they, as a, stranger, was it to be a judge? therefore we will afflict thee more than them. 0 And they pressed very violently upon Lot: and they were even at the point of breaking open the doors.
Catholic Public Domain Version
But they said, “Move away from there.” And again: “You have entered,” they said, “as a stranger; should you then judge? Therefore, we will afflict you yourself more than them.” And they acted very violently against Lot. And they were now at the point of breaking open the doors.
New American Bible
They replied, “Stand back! This man,” they said, “came here as a resident alien, and now he dares to give orders! We will treat you worse than them!” With that, they pressed hard against Lot, moving in closer to break down the door.
New Revised Standard Version
But they replied, “Stand back!” And they said, “This fellow came here as an alien, and he would play the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near the door to break it down.
Translations from Aramaic
Lamsa Bible
And they said, Get away. And they said again, This fellow came to sojourn among us, and now he tries to judge us; and they said to Lot, Now we will deal worse with you than with them. Then Lot fought desperately with them, and they drew near to break the door.
Peshitta Holy Bible Translated
And they said, “Get back!” and they said, “One came to dwell with us and behold, the Judge judges us; now we will do worse to you than to them”, and Lot fought with the men greatly, and they approached to break down the door.
OT Translations
JPS Tanakh 1917
And they said: 'Stand back.' And they said: 'This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs play the judge; now will we deal worse with thee, than with them.' And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and drew near to break the door.
Brenton Septuagint Translation
And they said to him, Stand back there, thou camest in to sojourn, was it also to judge? Now then we would harm thee more than them. And they pressed hard on the man, even Lot, and they drew nigh to break the door.
101G
Active Member
it's just amazing how people just jump on a bandwagon and run with a ERROR. just because some man said it? instead of searching out the Word of God. these men of the city WERE going to do "WORSE" to Lot than they intended to do to the two men, (angels). CONTEXT is so IMPORTANT than following blindly as to what some man or woman said. the scriptures are true, Hebrews 3:10 "Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways."
Jeremiah 23:21 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied."
Oh how true.
101G.
Jeremiah 23:21 "I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied."
Oh how true.
101G.
MTMattie
Active Member
There are those those who stand for what is right in the path of those who would do evil and risk becoming a target of wrath themselves. It is not common today but a long time ago, it was right.
Lot had done all he can to protect two travelers staying with him from the men of his city who want to attack and have sex with them. He even offered his own two virgin daughters in trade. And they declined.
Question... Was this offer was made in earnest, or simply as a way of exaggerating the evil the men of Sodom planned to commit? My opinion is it was definitely in ernest.
But it did not work. In fact, they are offended by Lot's moralizing. How dare he judge their moral choices by telling them what they can and cannot do to strangers!
And that ws when they get more and more enraged and move in on Lot, threatening to do worse (deal worse) than they had planned for the two visitors, which was sex and debauchery. The crowd of men from Sodom attempts to break his door down to get to the two strangers inside Lot's house and no doubt Lot and family would have been killed.
We all know the ending....
101G
Active Member
WHAT? attack! .............. and have sex with them. now do you KNOW WHY Lot offered his daughters instead? .... (smile).
remember these men was .... as tradition put it.... Homosexual. so as 101G asked, "WHY, or what was the meaning of Lot offering his daughters, by the way was MARRIED.
how dare he, Lot Judge them? A. Lot was not at their houses. B. Lot sat "IN THE GATE", not at the gate.... he was a Judge.... please look up what "Set IN the gate" means.
where do that say that in the definition?...... (smile).
yes we do, A. these men of the "CITY", never .... "KNEW", nor "KNOW" them because they was blinded, (smile). B. they were all burnt up.
now, "WHAT ABOUT THAT WHY LOT OFFERED HIS DAUGHTERS" to Homosexual .... MALES? ...... (smile).
can't wait to hear that answer.
101G.
