Things that accompany Christ

Both reject each other's version, and both think that the Bible supports their version.
They will end up accusing each other of making Jesus a liar, despising the Scripture, and putting in danger their salvation.
Same old, same old.

Fortunately, I am very annoying, and not the kind of guy who sits with popcorn to enjoy the wrestling match. ;)




Why not? :oops:
Please embrace @brightfame52 as your brother in Christ. This is the right thing to do, and what the Holy Spirit whispers in your ear. He is your brother, TomL.
No, it is not the right thing and his doctrine blasphemes God.

You may find that casual, I do not.
 
You deny Eternal Redemption for them for whom Christ died ! All whom He died for have eternal redemption
Once again, you are unable to address scriptural rebuttal

Christ gave his blood even for Judas

Luke 22:14–22 (KJV 1900) — 14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. 21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. 22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
 
You need to be concerned on the things that accompany Christ. Like Eternal Redemption out of His Blood for them He gave Himself for Heb 9:12

12 ;Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Eternal redemption is for those who believe
 
Since we have in the Bible evidence that the intended population to save are
  • the elect from the foundation of the world for no reason
  • those who believe in Christ's gospel
then the efficacy of Christ sacrifice is 100%, both for you and for @civic.

The posts of the two of you address what was first, the egg of the chicken. They don't address the fact that, in the end, we eat eggs for breakfast.

So, regardless of whether God first regenerates the person to believe, or God regenerates the person who has chosen to believe, the result is the same: Jesus sacrifice is efficacious for 100% of the intended population.
Neither you nor @civic are diminishing the value of Christ's sacrifice nor the fulfillment of God's plan/will.

Please recognize this.
Bearing false witness
 
Once again, you are unable to address scriptural rebuttal

Christ gave his blood even for Judas

Luke 22:14–22 (KJV 1900) — 14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him. 15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. 21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. 22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
You deny Eternal Redemption for them for whom Christ died ! All whom He died for have eternal redemption
 
Eternal redemption is for those who believe
You need to be concerned on the things that accompany Christ. Like Eternal Redemption out of His Blood for them He gave Himself for Heb 9:12

12 ;Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
 
Bearing false witness

Well, I respect your right to refuse to explain our readers why you consider the above statement false.
You are and will always be my brother.
I will repeat the statement here:


Since we have in the Bible evidence that the intended population to save are
  • the elect from the foundation of the world for no reason
  • those who believe in Christ's gospel
then the efficacy of Christ sacrifice is 100%, both for you and for @civic.

The posts of the two of you address what was first, the egg of the chicken. They don't address the fact that, in the end, we eat eggs for breakfast.

So, regardless of whether God first regenerates the person to believe, or God regenerates the person who has chosen to believe, the result is the same: Jesus sacrifice is efficacious for 100% of the intended population.
Neither you nor @civic are diminishing the value of Christ's sacrifice nor the fulfillment of God's plan/will.

Please recognize this.
 
You deny Eternal Redemption for them for whom Christ died ! All whom He died for have eternal redemption

Since @TomL thinks that Christ died to save all those who believed in Him, and those who believe in Him will effectively be saved, TomL believes in the efficacious redemption of Christ.

Your statement has no grounds, because your argument depart from a different intended population.
Whatever the intended population, the result is the same.
The three of you: @civic, @TomL and you, believe that Jesus sacrifice is 100% effective for the intended population.

I will keep respecting your right to refuse to answer.
You will keep respecting my right to expose your unwillingness to respond.
 
Well, I respect your right to refuse to explain our readers why you consider the above statement false.
You are and will always be my brother.
I will repeat the statement here:


Since we have in the Bible evidence that the intended population to save are
  • the elect from the foundation of the world for no reason
  • those who believe in Christ's gospel
then the efficacy of Christ sacrifice is 100%, both for you and for @civic.

The posts of the two of you address what was first, the egg of the chicken. They don't address the fact that, in the end, we eat eggs for breakfast.

So, regardless of whether God first regenerates the person to believe, or God regenerates the person who has chosen to believe, the result is the same: Jesus sacrifice is efficacious for 100% of the intended population.
Neither you nor @civic are diminishing the value of Christ's sacrifice nor the fulfillment of God's plan/will.

Please recognize this.
Bearing false witness
 
Since @TomL thinks that Christ died to save all those who believed in Him, and those who believe in Him will effectively be saved, TomL believes in the efficacious redemption of Christ.

Your statement has no grounds, because your argument depart from a different intended population.
Whatever the intended population, the result is the same.
The three of you: @civic, @TomL and you, believe that Jesus sacrifice is 100% effective for the intended population.

I will keep respecting your right to refuse to answer.
You will keep respecting my right to expose your unwillingness to respond.
Bearing false witness
 
No, it is not the right thing and his doctrine blasphemes God.

You may find that casual, I do not.

I know you love Christ and want to defend truth.
I'm not calling you to stop debating passionately with @brightfame52 defending what you are convinced is true.
I'm calling you to embrace @brightfame52 as your brother in Christ, despite any mistake he can make on doctrine.
Be as kind to him as Jesus is kind to him.
That's all, TomL. If you have been kind and I am misintrepreting you, please accept my apologies.
 
Bearing false witness
Since this is a forum of dialogue and debate, my friend, could you please explain to me and our readers why you find my statement false?

I know I am very annoying, but your answer is important for me. Otherwise I would not be here bothering you.
I have reviewed your posts and have not found anything that can refute the argument of the total efficacy of Jesus sacrifice that both you and our friends @civic and @TomL uphold.
You both believe that his sacrifice was 100% efficacious.
You just differ in characterizing the intended population for which such sacrifice was planned.

If I am wrong in my appreciation, please explain why.
 
Since this is a forum of dialogue and debate, my friend, could you please explain to me and our readers why you find my statement false?

I know I am very annoying, but your answer is important for me. Otherwise I would not be here bothering you.
I have reviewed your posts and have not found anything that can refute the argument of the total efficacy of Jesus sacrifice that both you and our friends @civic and @TomL uphold.
You both believe that his sacrifice was 100% efficacious.
You just differ in characterizing the intended population for which such sacrifice was planned.

If I am wrong in my appreciation, please explain why.
he can't watch and see.
 
Since this is a forum of dialogue and debate, my friend, could you please explain to me and our readers why you find my statement false?

I know I am very annoying, but your answer is important for me. Otherwise I would not be here bothering you.
I have reviewed your posts and have not found anything that can refute the argument of the total efficacy of Jesus sacrifice that both you and our friends @civic and @TomL uphold.
You both believe that his sacrifice was 100% efficacious.
You just differ in characterizing the intended population for which such sacrifice was planned.

If I am wrong in my appreciation, please explain why.
Read the thread
 
I know you love Christ and want to defend truth.
I'm not calling you to stop debating passionately with @brightfame52 defending what you are convinced is true.
I'm calling you to embrace @brightfame52 as your brother in Christ, despite any mistake he can make on doctrine.
Be as kind to him as Jesus is kind to him.
That's all, TomL. If you have been kind and I am misintrepreting you, please accept my apologies.
Being kind to him is revealing his errors not confirming him in them.
 
Since @TomL thinks that Christ died to save all those who believed in Him, and those who believe in Him will effectively be saved, TomL believes in the efficacious redemption of Christ.

Your statement has no grounds, because your argument depart from a different intended population.
Whatever the intended population, the result is the same.
The three of you: @civic, @TomL and you, believe that Jesus sacrifice is 100% effective for the intended population.

I will keep respecting your right to refuse to answer.
You will keep respecting my right to expose your unwillingness to respond.
You are confused

Christ died for all, the whole world


1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
 
You need to be concerned on the things that accompany Christ. Like Eternal Redemption out of His Blood for them He gave Himself for Heb 9:12

12 ;Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Who believe, not the unconditionally elect that you read into scripture
 
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