The Targumic use of Memra.

[TomL]

The Targumic use of Memra.

From Raymond Brown, The Gospel According to John, vol. 29, 1966, pp 523-24.

The Memra of the Lord in the Targums is not simply a translation of what we have spoken of as “the word of the Lord”; rather it is a surrogate for God Himself.

If in Exod 3:12 God says, “I will be with you,” in the Targum Onkelos God says, “My Memra will be your support.”

If in Exod 19.17 we are told that Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, in Targum Onkelos we are told that they were brought to the Memra of God.

If Gen 28.21 says, “Yahweh shall be my God,” Targum Onkelos speaks of the Memra of Yahweh.

In sum, it seems that the Prologue’s description of the Word is far closer to biblical and Jewish strains of thought than it is to anything purely Hellenistic [Greek].

In the mind of the theologian of the Prologue the creative word of God, the word of the Lord that came to the prophets, has become personal in Jesus who is the embodiment of divine revelation.

The gospel according to John, Raymond E Brown,

 

[101G]

The Targumic use of Memra.

From Raymond Brown, The Gospel According to John, vol. 29, 1966, pp 523-24.

The Memra of the Lord in the Targums is not simply a translation of what we have spoken of as “the word of the Lord”; rather it is a surrogate for God Himself.

If in Exod 3:12 God says, “I will be with you,” in the Targum Onkelos God says, “My Memra will be your support.”

If in Exod 19.17 we are told that Moses brought the people out of the camp to meet God, in Targum Onkelos we are told that they were brought to the Memra of God.

If Gen 28.21 says, “Yahweh shall be my God,” Targum Onkelos speaks of the Memra of Yahweh.

In sum, it seems that the Prologue’s description of the Word is far closer to biblical and Jewish strains of thought than it is to anything purely Hellenistic [Greek].

In the mind of the theologian of the Prologue the creative word of God, the word of the Lord that came to the prophets, has become personal in Jesus who is the embodiment of divine revelation.

The gospel according to John, Raymond E Brown,

well now is not the Memra is the Lord Jesus himself, the Holy Spirit? supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." so clearly it is the Spirit of Christ who was in the prophets of old. now the identity of the Spirit who was in them again. 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

 

[TomL]

well now is not the Memra is the Lord Jesus himself, the Holy Spirit? supportive scripture, 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." so clearly it is the Spirit of Christ who was in the prophets of old. now the identity of the Spirit who was in them again. 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

Yes of course Memra is Aramaic for rthe Word

The Word appears in the Hebrew Old Testament, The Aramaic Targums of the Old testament, as well as the New Testament

 

[101G]

Yes of course Memra is Aramaic for rthe Word

The Word appears in the Hebrew Old Testament, The Aramaic Targums of the Old testament, as well as the New Testament

GINOLJC, to all.
True, but understand, "The Word was MADE flesh at John 1:1 and before John 1:1 the Word/the Memra is Spirit, and there is ONLY "ONE" Spirit. same one Person.

101G.

 

[TomL]

GINOLJC, to all.
True, but understand, "The Word was MADE flesh at John 1:1 and before John 1:1 the Word/the Memra is Spirit, and there is ONLY "ONE" Spirit. same one Person.

101G.

Made flesh but always personal

The Memra while deity was distinguished from the other person Yahweh

Many Jews had a belief in two powers in heaven

 

[101G]

Made flesh but always personal

ERROR, until his MANIFESTATION IN "PERSON".... (smile, Oh dear, when will they ever learn. supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets," Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
QUESTION, was he EXPRESSED in Genesis 1? no, not until John 1:1 ... Oh boy when will they LEARN, God, Jesus the Spirit spoke in the OT of his coming. the express image of his person? yes, of, of, of, his, his, his, PERSON. Oh my God this is too easy. the IMAGE is the ECHAD of the "LORD", (Deuteronomy 6:4) or the Another (of Philippians 2:6-8) the "Lord". if one cannot understand it, the Godhead now, as the scriptures states, Revelation 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." ...... AMEN

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

 

[TomL]

ERROR, until his MANIFESTATION IN "PERSON".... (smile, Oh dear, when will they ever learn. supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:1 "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets," Hebrews 1:2 "Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;" Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
QUESTION, was he EXPRESSED in Genesis 1? no, not until John 1:1 ... Oh boy when will they LEARN, God, Jesus the Spirit spoke in the OT of his coming. the express image of his person? yes, of, of, of, his, his, his, PERSON. Oh my God this is too easy. the IMAGE is the ECHAD of the "LORD", (Deuteronomy 6:4) or the Another (of Philippians 2:6-8) the "Lord". if one cannot understand it, the Godhead now, as the scriptures states, Revelation 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still." ...... AMEN

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

Give it up

This is a personal being

Philippians 2:5–11 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He has a mind, a will, ability to consider and demonstrate humility, and obedience

 

[101G]

Give it up

This is a personal being

Philippians 2:5–11 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

He has a mind, a will, ability to consider and demonstrate humility, and obedience

The test .......... was Christ at Genesis 1:1.... your' asnser please.

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

 

[TomL]

The test .......... was Christ at Genesis 1:1.... your' asnser please.

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

The pre-incarnate Christ-the Word - the Angel of the Lord-the messenger of his presence-the Memra, He was there

 

[101G]

The pre-incarnate Christ-the Word - the Angel of the Lord-the messenger of his presence-the Memra, He was there

THE CHRIST WAS NOT. SO, TRY AGAIN.

now, before you answer, is the pre-incarnate Christ-the Word, God, see John 1:3... and if you agree, then at Genesis 1:1 only ONE PERSON MADE ALL THINGS, see Isaiah 44:24.

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

 

[TomL]

THE CHRIST WAS NOT. SO, TRY AGAIN.

now, before you answer, is the pre-incarnate Christ-the Word, God, see John 1:3... and if you agree, then at Genesis 1:1 only ONE PERSON MADE ALL THINGS, see Isaiah 44:24.

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

Were you unable to read?

The pre-incarnate Christ-the Word - the Angel of the Lord-the messenger of his presence-the Memra, He was there

what do you do with

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

Jude 5 (LEB) — 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe.

 

[101G]

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

christ from the NT view, but was that flesh bone and bllod in the wilderness? .... LOL, ... NO. the Spirit was.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpent

and? ... is he, JESUS, not the Holy Spirit? .... (smile)..... YIKES!

Jude 5 (LEB) — 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe.

again, AND? the same one Person who is Saviour, LISTEN and LEARN, Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me." MY GOD HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE.

Same one person... Oh boy.


101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

 

[TomL]

christ from the NT view, but was that flesh bone and bllod in the wilderness? .... LOL, ... NO. the Spirit was.

The word became flesh, There is continuity between the Word and Christ

and it is scripture

1 Corinthians 10:4 (KJV 1900) — 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1 Corinthians 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpent

and? ... is he, JESUS, not the Holy Spirit? .... (smile)..... YIKES!

Scripture says it was Christ It does not say it was the Holy spirit

Jude 5 (LEB) — 5 Now I want to remind you, although you know everything once and for all, that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, the second time destroyed those who did not believe.

again, AND? the same one Person who is Saviour, LISTEN and LEARN, Hosea 13:4 "Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me." MY GOD HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND SCRIPTURE.

Same one person... Oh boy.


101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)

Sorry no The Son is not the father and neither are the Holy Spirit

Father-son are distinctions

The sent and the sender are distinction

One speaking of the other in the third person is a distinction

You ignore distinctions

 

[101G]

The word became flesh, There is continuity between the Word and Christ

GOOD, and it's the same one person, right. now this. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." ALL THINGS WAS MADE .... BY ..... THE WORD... right... right. scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" God word in Isaiah said the LORD MADE ALL THINGS, and he was "ALONE" ... and by himself. alone means, having no one else present. do you know what that means? he didn't go through anyone else. because there was no one else. the Word in John 1:3 before his flesh is the same one Person who is the "LORD" ... who made man in the beginning, just as the Christ said in Matthews 19:4 . LISTEN, "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," he is ONE PERSON, and at Genesis 1:26 and 27 it ... the US and the OUR was to come. when men refuse to believe God, there is no hope for them. so 101G is brushing off the dust of his feet and hand for you.

there is no need to reply. Good day.

101G. (AKA the spiritual saboteur), (AKA the anti-christ)