brightfame52
Active Member
That's what it means. All without expectation don't have Justification of life and the whole chapter 5 is about the elect.
The New birth comes after hearing/believing the gospel
- Thread starter civic
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So only the elect—the same all men were originally condemned in Adam?
brightfame52
Active Member
All the justified elect. Only an elect people were promised to be Justified in the Lord Isa 45:25
In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
Paul mentioned the seed in Rom 4:16
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
TibiasDad
Active Member
No one has life until they believe! The singular thing that kept Israel from life was unbelief! That is Paul’s entire argument. Belief/faith not earning salvation by works.
All are able to be saved if they believe! No one is excluded from the hope of salvation for all who believe. There is no designation of a portion of the whole that will be saved by God’s choice from eternity past.
All will not believe, though all are required to do so and asked to believe. All are capable of believing through the preaching of the gospel.
Doug
Amen
TibiasDad
Active Member
The “seed” are all who believe, both Jew and Gentile. “Not all of Israel are Israel!” (See Rom 9:6)
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
That's absolutely false, believing in Christ is the evidence and result of eternal life and spiritual life.
brightfame52
Active Member
They are seed B4 they believe and that's why they believe.
Um all who believe are promised to be justified
Rom 3:22–24 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Acts 13:38–39 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Gal 3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Rom 4:24–5:1 but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification. Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
PS Are you imagining all living in Israel will be justified
brightfame52
Active Member
All the seed is promised to be Justified B4 they were born. Isa 45 and the promise was centuries before many of them were born and Christ died.
No, actually, they are not
You are reading the idea of being born justified into the passage
Isaiah 45:21–25 (UASV) — 21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, Jehovah? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no one else. 23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ 24 “Only in Jehovah, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength. Men will come to him, and all who were angry at him will be put to shame. 25 In Jehovah all the offspring of Israel shall be justified and shall glory.”
There is nothing in the passage about unbelievers being born justified
TibiasDad
Active Member
No scripture speaks of unbelievers being believers before they believe. The only way to logically claim that is to assume predestination in eternity past, which scripture never speaks is either.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Eph 2:1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Col 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins…
Paul says you are wrong!
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes they are
brightfame52
Active Member
You can't see it
brightfame52
Active Member
No he doesn't
Nope
No, actually, they are not
You are reading the idea of being born justified into the passage
Isaiah 45:21–25 (UASV) — 21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, Jehovah? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no one else. 23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ 24 “Only in Jehovah, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength. Men will come to him, and all who were angry at him will be put to shame. 25 In Jehovah all the offspring of Israel shall be justified and shall glory.”
There is nothing in the passage about unbelievers being born justified
And your doctrine is totally twisted
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes
No, actually, they are not
You are reading the idea of being born justified into the passage
Isaiah 45:21–25 (UASV) — 21 Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, Jehovah? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. 22 “Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no one else. 23 By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’ 24 “Only in Jehovah, it shall be said of me, are righteousness and strength. Men will come to him, and all who were angry at him will be put to shame. 25 In Jehovah all the offspring of Israel shall be justified and shall glory.”
There is nothing in the passage about unbelievers being born justified
And your doctrine is totally twisted
TibiasDad
Active Member
What I can’t see is you posting a scriptural proof that someone is a believer before they believe! One cannot see that which is nonexistent.
Doug
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