Scriptural Baptism

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Dr. Kenneth Wuest stated that “the Greek word for ‘baptism’ speaks of the introduction or placing of a person or thing into a new environment or into union with something else, so as to alter its condition or its relationship to its previous environment or condition.”

When we believed, the Holy Spirit baptized us into the Lord Jesus. “By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.” “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (though the “old man” yet indwells believers, they are new and separated from it - Ro 8:9; 1Co 12:13; 2Co 5:17—NC).

By this spiritual act of baptism, the Spirit places us in union with the Lord Jesus. We were taken out of our old environment and position in the first Adam, and positioned in the new environment of the Last Adam. By that means our position is changed from that of a lost sinner with a depraved nature to that of a righteous saint with the divine nature [not that this divine nature makes us divine, we are only “partakers” and not possessors: “not essentially, nor of the essence of God, this is impossible, for the nature, perfections, and glory of God are incommunicable to creatures - John Gill - 2Pe 1:4—NC). Our relationship to the Law is changed from that of a guilty sinner to that of a justified saint.

This spiritual baptism occurs once, at the new birth, and is forever (most important spiritual growth doctrine from which all growth doctrines derive—NC). The act of water baptism is meant to be our practical public testimony to, and illustrative of our spiritual baptism into the risen Lord Jesus Christ.

Positionally, judicially, each believer was positioned in, identified with the Lord Jesus on the Cross. From that point on, in that judicial oneness, what happened to Him happened to us. “I am crucified with Christ” (Gal 2:20). That crucifixion had to do with His and our death unto sin. “Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?” (Rom 6:3)

As we are submerged in the waters of baptism we are testifying to the fact that the Spirit has baptized us into the Lord Jesus’ death unto sin. Our identification in His death includes a number of blessed factors:

a) In Christ we died to the penal consequences of sin. “For he who has died has been freed from sin” (Ro 6:7).

b) In Christ we died to the power and reign of sin. “Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin” (Ro 6:6).

c) In Christ we died to the world. “But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world” (Gal 6:14). Here, by the “world” is meant God is left out.

Hence, we are to “love not the world neither the things that are in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world” (1Jn 2:15, 16).

d) In Christ we died to the self-centered life. “He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again” (2Co5:15).

e) In Christ the believer died to the claims of the Law, as well as the principle of law in general (the principle of law is “he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons” - Col 3:25—NC). “Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the Law by the Body of Christ.” Our death with the Lord Jesus, as symbolized in our water baptism, has satisfied the demand of the Law. “For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.” “For I through the Law am dead to the Law, that I might live unto God” (Ro 10:4; Gal 2:19).

f) In Christ we died to the dominion of Satan. “Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage (Heb 2:14, 15).

I. Our water baptism pictures our burial with the Lord Jesus in His death unto sin. “Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death” (Rom 6:4). As we allow ourselves to be submerged beneath the surface of the baptismal waters, we are enables to appreciate what our Lord passed through in order to save us both from the penalty of our sins, and the power of our sin (“the power of sin is the Law” - 1Co 15:56—NC). We are henceforth better able to understand and comply with His statement to us, “Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin” (saints are not dead to sin by reckoning, but reckon because they are dead to sin – Ro 6:11—NC).

Now we can know something more of His bitter anguish and cry on our behalf: “The waters are come in unto my soul. I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the floods overflow me. Reproach hath broken my heart; and I am full of heaviness: and I looked for some to take pity, but there was none; and for comforters, but I found none. They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.” Again He cried out, “Thou hast laid me in the lowest pit, in darkness, in the deeps. Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and Thou hast afflicted me with all Thy waves” (Psa 69:1, 2, 20, 21; 88:6, 7).

II. Our Lord Jesus was not only delivered for our transgressions, but He was “raised again for our justification” (Rom 4:25). When we were brought up out of the waters of baptism we illustrated our resurrection from the dead, in Him. “That like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection” (Ro 6:4, 5).

III. Hence our baptism not only consists of immersion in water, submersion under water, but emergence from the water to complete the picture of our spiritual baptism in union with the Lord Jesus. As He arose from the dead, to live in the power of an endless life, so we are to reckon ourselves “alive unto God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (again, reckoning doesn’t establish what has already been established, but depends on it (Ro 6:11).

In this new position of life from the dead, the Word says to us, “Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you” (Ro 6:12, 13, 14)


—Miles J Stanford (1914-1999)









MJS daily devotion for July 28

“No true believer expects the Law to give life, yet many expect it to govern life. Too few realize that their death on the Cross separated them from the entire principle of law, and that their resurrection united them to the Lord Jesus,” “full of grace and truth” (John 1:14). —MJS

“All of the Lord’s commands to me are according to the new nature I already have. He is my life, and all His words are the expression of that life. Therefore when His words are given to me, they only give me the authority to do what my new nature likes to do. ‘A new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in Him and in you” (1 John 2:8). –John Nelson Darby (1800-1882)

“Does our Father mock us by bidding us do what He knows we are unable to do? No! He gives commands we cannot perform in our strength that we may know what we ought to request from Him.”

“Legalism is an effort to shape oneself to given laws or rules. Seeking to urge oneself into conformity to law, the old man is before the eye, and satisfaction is felt according as there is conformity to a given standard.

“The moment legality is sanctioned, it must be with reference to that which needs to be made subject. This is not Christian, because as believers we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, against which there is no law.” —MJS
 
III. Hence our baptism not only consists of immersion in water, submersion under water, but emergence from the water to complete the picture of our spiritual baptism in union with the Lord Jesus. As He arose from the dead, to live in the power of an endless life, so we are to reckon ourselves “alive unto God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (again, reckoning doesn’t establish what has already been established, but depends on it (Ro 6:11).
Some interesting remarks about baptism

John said, I baptize with water, Jesus shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Here the contrast is not in the mode, but in the instrument. Both John and Jesus baptized, one with water, the other with the Holy Ghost. Our Lord said, Acts 11: 16, “John baptized with water, but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.” Peter says, Acts 11:15, the “Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius and friends as on us at the beginning.” Causing the Holy Spirit to fall on Cornelius was the same in mode as that of Pentecost. This baptism was effected by the Spirit's being poured out, Acts 2:17. This was prophesied by Joel. Peter says that prophecy of pouring out the Spirit was that day fulfilled. This baptism was by pouring out, Acts 10: 45, or falling upon, Acts 10: 44. So the Samaritans, Acts 8: 16, 17, received the Holy Spirit by his falling upon them. Ez. 11: 5, says, The Spirit fell upon me. Prophets and Christians received the Spirit by his falling upon—being poured upon them. And this is called a baptism by John and Peter and by our Lord. Are they competent witnesses? The Baptist claim of "No dipping, no baptism," is a direct disclaimer of Jesus’, John’s and Peter’s competency. In John 16: 7, our Lord said, I will send the Comforter. Acts 2: 33, records "having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this which ye now see and hear. Again the baptism of the Spirit is called an anointing, Acts 10: 38. God anointed Jesus with the Holy Ghost. Pouring oil upon kings anointed them for their office. Pouring the Spirit upon Jesus was his anointing. So he is called The Anointed; in Greek, Christos; in Hebrew, Messiah. Anointing is then the equivalent of the Spirit's coming upon— baptizing him. Another word often describes this modal act. In Matt. 3:16, Jesus saw the Spirit descending like a dove. And in John 1: 33, John the Baptist saw the Spirit descending from heaven. Here the descent of the Spirit was Christ's baptism by the Spirit, and the proof that he should baptize with the Holy Ghost. Here the modal act was the descent of the Spirit. So common is this idea of Spiritual baptism, that a Baptist Conference in England lately sent salutations to one here, "praying the descent of the baptism of the Spirit upon them." Christians think alike, pray alike, and send salutations correctly about the "one baptism," of which water baptism is only the profession, but Acts 10: 47 teaches that Peter was moved to apply water baptism by seeing the baptism of the Spirit fall on (v. 44), poured out (v. 45). Can you with a straight face actually reason that Peter thought in his mind, “Because I have seen Jesus pour out His Spirit, therefore, I will immerse them?” How absurd to represent that outpouring of the Spirit by any ceremony with water if the water was not poured also! An immersion could have no corresponding likeness! It would be a contradiction. It confirms this view to consider that purifying in the Old Testament is effected in the same way. Is. 52: 15, “He shall sprinkle many nations.” Ezek. 36: 25, “I will sprinkle clean water upon you.” Hos. 14: 5, “I will be as the dew.” Ps. 72: 6, “He shall come down like rain.” Now, do the dear friends, whom we would wish to have see eye to eye with, believe these texts describe the modal acts of the Spirit? Let “baptize with water,” have the same modal acts as Scripture shows of the Spirit’s mode, and the barrier between churches is cast down. If baptism with water is made like that of the Spirit, then the water should be poured out, caused to fall on, to sprinkle, to descend as dew, as rain, as pure water. This view is confirmed by considering that the record always is baptism with, not in, water. The water is always like the Spirit—the instrument. Baptisms may be into Paul, into Moses, into Christ's death; but there is no record of a baptism into water. It is vain to say baptize has the power to carry one under water, when the constant usage of Scripture makes the baptizing instrument descend. The Greeks also used baptize where there was no immersion in water. They said one was baptized with wine and taxes and tears and questions and grief’s and vice. They understand baptize to indicate a change, not in one mode, but in any mode. Chrysostom, the eloquent Greek preacher, said John was baptized by putting his hand in baptism on the head of our Lord. The Fathers said that all waters were baptized by the baptism of Jesus. They did not mean immersed, but consecrated. Do men now know Greek better than the Greeks? Would Scripture describe the one baptism of the Spirit as a descent, a falling upon, a pouring out, if a valid baptism was the exact reverse?
Rev. George C. Bush
 
When we believed, the Holy Spirit baptized us into the Lord Jesus. “By one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.” “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (though the “old man” yet indwells believers, they are new and separated from it - Ro 8:9; 1Co 12:13; 2Co 5:17—NC).

By this spiritual act of baptism, the Spirit places us in union with the Lord Jesus. We were taken out of our old environment and position in the first Adam, and positioned in the new environment of the Last Adam. By that means our position is changed from that of a lost sinner with a depraved nature to that of a righteous saint with the divine nature [not that this divine nature makes us divine, we are only “partakers” and not possessors: “not essentially, nor of the essence of God, this is impossible, for the nature, perfections, and glory of God are incommunicable to creatures - John Gill - 2Pe 1:4—NC). Our relationship to the Law is changed from that of a guilty sinner to that of a justified saint.

This spiritual baptism occurs once, at the new birth, and is forever (most important spiritual growth doctrine from which all growth doctrines derive—NC). The act of water baptism is meant to be our practical public testimony to, and illustrative of our spiritual baptism into the risen Lord Jesus Christ.
I believe folks are wrong about 1st Corinthians 12:13


Start at #3,353

I do not see the teaching of spirit baptism for the NT churches that is so popular among the Pentecostals, and the use of 1st Corinthians 12:13 that is very popular among many different Christians groups. I would love for someone to at least give me their understanding of the Spirit baptism for the NT Churches. I firmly believe when one is born of the Spirit, then at that instance the Spirit of God/Christ comes and lives in our new man that has been created after the image of Jesus Christ, and all through the churches epistles we are commanded to walk in the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit, by putting off the old man and his deeds and to put on the new man, etc. The baptism of the Spirit as taught by the Pentecostals is a short cut, to doing what God has commanded US TO DO by taking heed to ourselves and to make sure we present our bodies a living sacrifice to his honour and glory.

Any one?

Btw, @Grace ambassador has the most Christ like spirit that I have seen on Christian forum, ever, and I do not know her/him personally, but have seen some of the post by @Grace ambassador, they generally humble me when I read behind them. I need that Christ like spirit ruling in my heart like I see in @Grace ambassador.
 

Scriptural Baptism?​

And there is yet another view?:​

One Baptism vs baptisms

Amen.
Hi GA and appreciate the reply and comments! Prior to Act 2:4 nobody was baptized with the Spirit, except Christ (Luk 3:21), because "the Holy Ghost was not yet given," (Jhn 7:39). It wasn't until after Christ's ascension that He could send the Spirit: "for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you" (Jhn 16:7).

In those ancient times the baptism of the Holy Spirit could be given separate from believing (Act 19:1-6). But of course now the Spirit is given when you believe (Eph 1:13).
 
I believe folks are wrong about 1st Corinthians 12:13

I do not see the teaching of spirit baptism for the NT churches that is so popular among the Pentecostals
There have been Christians that are charismatic (those believing the gifts of the Spirit are still in operation), since 1906, but most Christians do no believe the gifts are for today. There's no doubt that now people are saved when they believe in the Lord Jesus (Eph 1:13). In the days of Paul and the Apostles, God used the gifts to attract Jews, for they would not believe without a "sign" (1Co 1:22).

The danger of being charismatic is thinking your not saved if you haven't spoke in tongues (some do not think this is required). People can truly believe in Christ and believe in charismatics, but there will be much lack of spiritual growth in the Lord Jesus' "image." (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18).
 
There have been Christians that are charismatic (those believing the gifts of the Spirit are still in operation), since 1906, but most Christians do no believe the gifts are for today. There's no doubt that now people are saved when they believe in the Lord Jesus (Eph 1:13). In the days of Paul and the Apostles, God used the gifts to attract Jews, for they would not believe without a "sign" (1Co 1:22).

The danger of being charismatic is thinking your not saved if you haven't spoke in tongues (some do not think this is required). People can truly believe in Christ and believe in charismatics, but there will be much lack of spiritual growth in the Lord Jesus' "image." (Rom 8:29; 2Co 3:18).
Hmm I see nothing in the verses that would indicate one should lack spiritual growth should they be charismastics
 
Hmm I see nothing in the verses that would indicate one should lack spiritual growth should they be charismatics
It all depends on what one defines as "when that which is perfect is come." (1Co 13:10). It's my belief that it is in reference to the Word of God, because it is "perfect" or complete.

The gifts were used to attract the Jews, for the always "required a sign" (1Co 1:22), as God wanted them to be without any doubt. As the completion of the Word progressed, the signs began decreasing, so there would increase of faith. As long as there were signs, faith could not increase. With God faith and love are contingent on one another ( Gal5:6).

The Lord Jesus said, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign" (Mat 16:4), because He desires faith over proof. It's for our own good and spiritual growth in our faith in Christ! When the Bible was completed, the true signs ceased (1Co 13:8). Not suspecting anyone of wickedness, just repeating the Lord Jesus.
 
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It all depends on what one defines as "when that which is perfect is come." (1Co 13:10). It's my belief that it is in reference to the Word of God, because it is "perfect" or complete.

The gifts were used to attract the Jews, for the always "required a sign" (1Co 1:22), as God wanted them to be without any doubt. As the completion of the Word progressed, the signs began decreasing, so there would increase of faith. As long as there were signs, faith could not increase. With God faith and love are contingent on one another ( Gal5:6).

The Lord Jesus said, "A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign" (Mat 16:4), because He desires faith over proof. It's for our own good and spiritual growth in our faith in Christ! When the Bible was completed, the true signs ceased (1Co 13:8). Not suspecting anyone of wickedness, just repeating the Lord Jesus.
The gifts were present among Gentiles as well but do you really think we have perfection?

1 Corinthians 13:4–13 (LEB) — 4 Love is patient, love is kind, love is not jealous, it does not boast, it does not become conceited, 5 it does not behave dishonorably, it is not selfish, it does not become angry, it does not keep a record of wrongs, 6 it does not rejoice at unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth, 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will pass away. If there are tongues, they will cease. If there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but whenever the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside the things of a child. 12 For now we see through a mirror indirectly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know completely, just as I have also been completely known. 13 And now these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Knowing in part is not perfect knowledge
 
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The gifts were present among Gentiles as well but do you really think we have perfection?

Knowing in part is not perfect knowledge
You make a good point, but I'm referring to the Word of God being perfect. Translations are imperfect, but the Word of God in the right translation is perfect!
 
You make a good point, but I'm referring to the Word of God being perfect. Translations are imperfect, but the Word of God in the right translation is perfect!
The word of God Paul was speaking was imperfect?

While Paul stated

1 Corinthians 13:12–14:5 (LEB) — 12 For now we see through a mirror indirectly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know completely, just as I have also been completely known. 13 And now these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

He also stated

1 Pursue love, and strive for spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, because no one understands, but by the Spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people edification and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak with tongues, but even more that you may prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks with tongues, unless he interprets, in order that the church may receive edification.
 
The word of God Paul was speaking was imperfect?

While Paul stated

1 Corinthians 13:12–14:5 (LEB) — 12 For now we see through a mirror indirectly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know completely, just as I have also been completely known. 13 And now these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

He also stated

1 Pursue love, and strive for spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, because no one understands, but by the Spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people edification and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak with tongues, but even more that you may prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks with tongues, unless he interprets, in order that the church may receive edification.
One can think what he wants, but it's my belief that all of what the writers of Scripture show are God's words to us! Thanks for your reply!!
 
One can think what he wants, but it's my belief that all of what the writers of Scripture show are God's words to us! Thanks for your reply!!
Again

While Paul stated

1 Corinthians 13:12–14:5 (LEB) — 12 For now we see through a mirror indirectly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know completely, just as I have also been completely known. 13 And now these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

He also stated

1 Pursue love, and strive for spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, because no one understands, but by the Spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people edification and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak with tongues, but even more that you may prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks with tongues, unless he interprets, in order that the church may receive edification.

It is absolutely clear Paul was not arguing for a termination of the Spiritual gifts of tongues and prophesy at that time
 
It is absolutely clear Paul was not arguing for a termination of the Spiritual gifts of tongues and prophesy at that time
Hi Brother Tom! Thanks for your replies and comments. God used the Apostles via the gifts of the Spirit to prove to the Jews that the Scriptures they were writing were from God.

"Many Christians believe that the gifts of the Spirit, such as prophecy and healing, ceased after the apostolic age, a view known as cessationism. This belief is based on the idea that these gifts were meant to validate the apostles' message and that once the New Testament was completed, their purpose was fulfilled. - The Gospel Coalition

There were not many Christians showing the gifts after John died (last apostle to die AD 95), until 1906 (about one thousand years went by), when revivalists decided to bring back the gifts:

"The Azusa Street Revival began on April 9, 1906, and continued until roughly 1915. It was a significant event in the history of Pentecostalism, led by William J. Seymour in Los Angeles, California.
-Wikipedia
 
Hi Brother Tom! Thanks for your replies and comments. God used the Apostles via the gifts of the Spirit to prove to the Jews that the Scriptures they were writing were from God.

"Many Christians believe that the gifts of the Spirit, such as prophecy and healing, ceased after the apostolic age, a view known as cessationism. This belief is based on the idea that these gifts were meant to validate the apostles' message and that once the New Testament was completed, their purpose was fulfilled. - The Gospel Coalition

There were not many Christians showing the gifts after John died (last apostle to die AD 95), until 1906 (about one thousand years went by), when revivalists decided to bring back the gifts:

"The Azusa Street Revival began on April 9, 1906, and continued until roughly 1915. It was a significant event in the history of Pentecostalism, led by William J. Seymour in Los Angeles, California.
-Wikipedia
Hello

Well, I would never be one to tell the Holy Spirit what he can do or when he may do so.

And I would simply say that scripture does not teach the termination of spiritual gifts at a time other than perfection.

My personal view is we are not yet there.
 
Precious friends, further study info on this Important Biblical Matter, although I do
believe that God Himself "Still Performs Miracles" Today, Under His Amazing Grace!:

Unanswered Prayer
+
When Did the gift of tongues Cease? (I) [scroll to bottom of pg 18]
When Did the gift of tongues Cease? (II)

Conclusion:

"That Which Is Perfect" = Completion ( Fulfilling? ) Of God's Perfect Word Of
"The Revelation Of His Mystery" To Paul?:​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the Dispensation of God which is given to​
me for you, to Fulfil The Word of God; Even The Mystery Which hath been hid from ages​
and from generations, but now Is Made Manifest to His saints" (Colossians 1:25-26 AV)​

Please be Encouraged And Edified In The LORD Jesus Christ
And In His Word Of Truth,
Rightly Divided!

Amen.
 
Precious friends, further study info on this Important Biblical Matter, although I do
believe that God Himself "Still Performs Miracles" Today, Under His Amazing Grace!:

Unanswered Prayer
+
When Did the gift of tongues Cease? (I) [scroll to bottom of pg 18]
When Did the gift of tongues Cease? (II)

Conclusion:

"That Which Is Perfect" = Completion ( Fulfilling? ) Of God's Perfect Word Of
"The Revelation Of His Mystery" To Paul?:​

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the Dispensation of God which is given to​
me for you, to Fulfil The Word of God; Even The Mystery Which hath been hid from ages​
and from generations, but now Is Made Manifest to His saints" (Colossians 1:25-26 AV)​

Please be Encouraged And Edified In The LORD Jesus Christ
And In His Word Of Truth,
Rightly Divided!

Amen.
The face to face quote is interesting.

1 Corinthians 13:8–13 (LEB) — 8 Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will pass away. If there are tongues, they will cease. If there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but whenever the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside the things of a child. 12 For now we see through a mirror indirectly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know completely, just as I have also been completely known. 13 And now these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Seems perfection is when face to face
 
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Seems perfection is when face to face
Correct! Paul was "face-to-face" With Christ's "Revelation Of The Mystery" When Christ Finished
Revealing All of It To
him, and now he states "he knows It Completely, eh? And Then That is When
God Withdrew the "three gifts" and now "What"?:

"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
(1 Corinthians 13:13 AV)​
Oh Lord, when oh when will Your Severely Divided church { be United! and } come
"face-to-face" With Your:

 
Correct! Paul was "face-to-face" With Christ's "Revelation Of The Mystery" When Christ Finished
Revealing All of It To
him, and now he states "he knows It Completely, eh? And Then That is When
God Withdrew the "three gifts" and now "What"?:

"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."
(1 Corinthians 13:13 AV)​
Oh Lord, when oh when will Your Severely Divided church { be United! and } come
"face-to-face" With Your:

First, there is a we here

Second, I would not interpret face to face in that manner

1 Corinthians 13:8–13 (LEB) — 8 Love never ends. But if there are prophecies, they will pass away. If there are tongues, they will cease. If there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but whenever the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside the things of a child. 12 For now we see through a mirror indirectly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I will know completely, just as I have also been completely known. 13 And now these three things remain: faith, hope, and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Third after stating these three things remain Paul states

1 Corinthians 14:1–19 (LEB) — 1 Pursue love, and strive for spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For the one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God, because no one understands, but by the Spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people edification and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak with tongues, but even more that you may prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks with tongues, unless he interprets, in order that the church may receive edification. 6 But now, brothers, if I come to you speaking with tongues, how do I benefit you, unless I speak to you either with a revelation or with knowledge or with a prophecy or with a teaching? 7 Likewise, the inanimate things which produce a sound, whether flute or lyre, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the lyre? 8 For indeed, if the trumpet produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare for battle? 9 And so you through the tongue, unless you produce a clear message, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are probably so many kinds of languages in the world, and none without meaning. 11 Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a barbarian to the one who is speaking, and the one who is speaking will be a barbarian in my judgment. 12 In this way also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek for the edification of the church, in order that you may abound. 13 Therefore the one who speaks in a tongue must pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unproductive. 15 Therefore what should I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind. I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will also sing praise with my mind. 16 For otherwise, if you praise in your spirit, how will the one who fills the place of the outsider say the “amen” at your thanksgiving, because he does not know what you are saying? 17 For indeed you are giving thanks well, but the other person is not edified. 18 I give thanks to God that I speak with tongues more than all of you, 19 but in the church I prefer to speak five words with my mind, in order that I may instruct other people, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
 
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The Bible is like a "mirror," and if we want to see how we're supposed be and look like, we look as Scripture (scriptural mirror)! Paul's statement that "I know in part" means he only has partial knowledge of God 's Word at that time, because the other writers have yet at that time to write their part; and "that which is perfect" has to do with whatever is partial, which is the Word of God incomplete. But when the Bible was completed ("perfect") we could know the entire will and desires of God; coming face to face clearly in the mirror of the Word! The Word can now confirm Itself!



Again, when the Bible was completed, there was no more need to confirm the Word with "signs and wonders": and Christians could now see what they're supposed to look like by the Word--like the Lord Jesus (1Jo 4:17), and more so all the time as we "grow up into Him in all things" (Eph 4:15).

"Which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him . . . God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit" (Heb 2:3, 4).



James also made a comparison between a "mirror" and the Word of God:
Jas 1:22-25 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does."
 
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