Saved : Without WATER

[Behold]

Yes, without water.

Like this..

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it "IT", (his Faith)., was credited to Him as Righteousness".

See that?

We give, Faith in CHRIST....., and God responds with "the gift of Salvation".

No water pours out of Heaven.
Notice?
He's not in the fish tank.

Jesus is the LIVING Water, who lives IN the Born again.

So, "Abraham is the Father of OUR Faith"......because the born again have given God "Like faith".....the same.....and God accepts it.

Result?

"Faith is counted"
"Justification by Faith".

And someone who is confused by JAMES.... says...>"but can faith save us"?

And the answer is.....NO......because Faith is not the SAVIOR.
Jesus is the MEANS....by which God SAVES us.
"blood atonement" "Gift of Righteousness".

God is the SAVIOR... He saves us THROUGH our Faith......

See, many are trusting in Faith......as if Faith hung on the Cross.

I hear confused believers all the time say to me...>"well, as long as i hold unto my faith, i stay saved, i'll go to Heaven".

No you wont. As FAITH is not your savior.... You're trusting in FAITH, and that is not literally to trust in Christ.
This misunderstanding is generally a confused CHRISTian, as most unbelievers have no idea what "faith in Christ" even means.... to begin with, or why God requires faith.

Jesus said, "you must be born again"....

See, Its God who holds unto us by Spiritual Birth,.....:"born again".... because we gave Him our faith in CHRIST ONE TIME, and then He performs this, forever.

Philippians 1:6

 

[Frank Russell]

The earth was emptied of water

no baptism was required

but we all died the very next day

 

[Doug Brents]

Yes, without water.

Like this..

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it "IT", (his Faith)., was credited to Him as Righteousness".

See that?

We give, Faith in CHRIST....., and God responds with "the gift of Salvation".

No water pours out of Heaven.
Notice?
He's not in the fish tank.

Jesus is the LIVING Water, who lives IN the Born again.

So, "Abraham is the Father of OUR Faith"......because the born again have given God "Like faith".....the same.....and God accepts it.

Result?

"Faith is counted"
"Justification by Faith".

What is Abraham's faith? That he obeyed God's command.

And someone who is confused by JAMES.... says...>"but can faith save us"?

You misquote this verse.
James 2:14-17 - "What use is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 In the same way, faith also, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself."
What faith cannot save? The passive "wishful thinking" faith that says, "go, be filled and warmed" but does nothing to warm or fill; that faith cannot save.
But Eph 2:8-9 says clearly that it is through faith that salvation is brought to us.

And the answer is.....NO......because Faith is not the SAVIOR.
Jesus is the MEANS....by which God SAVES us.
"blood atonement" "Gift of Righteousness".

God is the SAVIOR... He saves us THROUGH our Faith......

Indeed, God saves THROUGH faith, not by faith, and not in the absence of faith.

See, many are trusting in Faith......as if Faith hung on the Cross.

Trusting in God through faith is not belief that faith hung on the Cross. This is a strawman if ever I saw one. It is having faith in the one who did hang on the cross that saves.

 

[Behold]

What is Abraham's faith? That he obeyed God's command.

That's not correct, Doug.

Abram was willing to obey....., AFTER He Believed..... 1st.

"Yes God, i BELIEVE.....>now let me go and offer the boy".

We get into the water AFTER we BELIEVE , 1st.

Its The BELIEVING that God Accepts.....because "without FAITH it is impossible to PLEASE God'.... is the point of it all.

God does not accept anyone's works or water.
He only accepts their Faith to Justify them through Christ.

"Faith ( Not WATER) is accepted by God".

 

[Doug Brents]

That's not correct, Doug.

What does James 2:21-23 says?
"Was our father Abraham not justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “And Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”"
James here is clarifying what was said in Gen 15:6 and elsewhere, making it clear that it was not Abraham giving intellectual assent to God, but actively obeying God that was credited to him as righteousness.

Abram was willing to obey....., AFTER He Believed..... 1st.

"Yes God, i BELIEVE.....>now let me go and offer the boy".

Clearly Abraham gave intellectual assent, but that is not what faith is. If Abraham had not proven out his belief with his faith, he would not have received the fulfillment of the promise.

We get into the water AFTER we BELIEVE , 1st.

Its The BELIEVING that God Accepts.....because "without FAITH it is impossible to PLEASE God'.... is the point of it all.

Without FAITH, not without intellectual assent.

God does not accept anyone's works or water.
He only accepts their Faith to Justify them through Christ.

"Faith ( Not WATER) is accepted by God".

You continue to misunderstand what faith is. Faith is the acts of obedience that we do (James 2:14-26). Faith is surrendering to God and repenting of our sin (Acts 3:19). Faith is confessing that He is Lord of our life (Rom 10:9-10). Faith is surrendering to Christ and dying with Him, being buried with Him in baptism so that the Holy Spirit will unite us with Christ and resurrect us with Him (Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14). Without those actions, intellectual assent is dead and worthless for bringing salvation to us.

 

[Behold]

What does James 2:21-23 says?
"Was our father Abraham not justified by works

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it (his faith) was counted as Righteousness"

This is "Justification by faith, without the deeds of the law" "without works".

"Abraham is the Father of our FAITH"

what are works?
They are the fruit of Discipleship... but they are not the Salvation.
See, you can do works and not be saved.
You can be water baptized and not be saved.

A.) Jesus is Salvation... ..... not water, and not works.

Doug, as soon as you realize that Water Baptism didn't die for you on the Cross, you are going to have such a revelation of God's Grace, and The Cross of Christ.

 

[Doug Brents]

"Abraham BELIEVED GOD, and it (his faith) was counted as Righteousness"

This is "Justification by faith, without the deeds of the law" "without works".

Without deeds of the Law, Yes; but not without taking any action at all.

"Abraham is the Father of our FAITH"

what are works?
They are the fruit of Discipleship... but they are not the Salvation.
See, you can do works and not be saved.
You can be water baptized and not be saved.

Indeed you can do works or be water baptized and not be saved.
But the inverse is not true. You cannot be saved if you are not water baptized (John 3:5, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Eph 5:26).

A.) Jesus is Salvation... ..... not water, and not works.

Jesus in the salvation, and we are saved when we are "in Christ". So how do we get "in Christ"? Through baptism (Gal 3:26-27, Rom 6:3, Col 2:12).

Doug, as soon as you realize that Water Baptism didn't die for you on the Cross, you are going to have such a revelation of God's Grace, and The Cross of Christ.

I have never said that water baptism died for us, so I have no idea where you are getting this nonsense.

 

[Behold]

But the inverse is not true. You cannot be saved if you are not water baptized

That lie came from the "cult of Mary".

Its a Cross denying Lie.

See, here is the truth..

"without the shedding of BLood, there is no forgiveness, no remission of sin".

Where is that found?

Its not found in the city water supply.

 

[Doug Brents]

That lie came from the "cult of Mary".

Its a Cross denying Lie.

See, here is the truth..

"without the shedding of BLood, there is no forgiveness, no remission of sin".

Where is that found?

Its not found in the city water supply.

Let's look solely at what Scripture says.
Yes, "... almost all things are cleansed with blood, according to the Law, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness." Heb 9:22
And "Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."" John 3:5
Then He said, "The one who has believed and has been baptized will be saved". Mark 16:16
And the Holy Spirit through Peter said, "Corresponding to that (the water of the Flood), baptism now saves you" 1 Pet 3:21
And the Holy Spirit through Paul said, "and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision performed without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in baptism, in which (in what? in baptism) you were also raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead." Col 2:11-12
And again the Holy Spirit through Paul said, "Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too may walk in newness of life." Rom 6:3-4
And the Holy Spirit through Paul said, "so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word," Eph 5:26

It is through baptism (in water) that we encounter the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit removes our sin and unites us with Christ. If we have not been baptized then we have not encountered the blood, our sins have not been cleansed, and we are not united with Christ.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

You continue to misunderstand what faith is. Faith is the acts of obedience that we do (James 2:14-26).

FALSE!! The acts of obedience that we do ARE THE RESULT/ the PRODUCT of having Biblical FAITH.

That's what the message of James has always been: if what you CALL FAITH, doesn't, of its own intrinsic nature, produce good works, then what you CALL FAITH isn't "Faith" at all.

The word "Faith" has been bandied about so much that it essentially means Nothing any more. People talk about the "Baptist Faith, or the "Catholic Faith", when all they're talking about are "theological systems".

Hagin Sr. proposed three foundational scriptures:
What IS faith? Heb 11:1
Where's Faith come from? Rom 10:17
How is FAITH applied? Mark 11:22-24

 

[Doug Brents]

FALSE!! The acts of obedience that we do ARE THE RESULT/ the PRODUCT of having Biblical FAITH.

That's what the message of James has always been: if what you CALL FAITH, doesn't, of its own intrinsic nature, produce good works, then what you CALL FAITH isn't "Faith" at all.

The word "Faith" has been bandied about so much that it essentially means Nothing any more. People talk about the "Baptist Faith, or the "Catholic Faith", when all they're talking about are "theological systems".

Hagin Sr. proposed three foundational scriptures:
What IS faith? Heb 11:1
Where's Faith come from? Rom 10:17
How is FAITH applied? Mark 11:22-24

Is it the body that gives life to the soul? Or the soul that gives life to the body?
Clearly, it is the soul that gives life to the body.
Now, read James 2:26:
"For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead."
The body without the Spirit is dead, useless, empty, and meaningless.
Faith without action is dead, useless, empty, and meaningless.

What is faith? Heb 11:1 if it is properly translated. It is NOT assurance and conviction. It IS evidence and substance.
What does it mean to believe you already have the things we ask for from God? To take action as if it is already ours, ie: if we pray for rain but do not have our umbrella in our hand when we walk out the door, we don't really have faith that we will receive what we prayed for.

And faith (active and alive with action) must be present before salvation is received (Eph 2:8-9), because faith is the conduit through which salvation is received by us (baptism).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Faith without action is dead, useless, empty, and meaningless.

I.e. not Biblical FAITH at all.

And faith (active and alive with action) must be present before salvation is received

Yup, and God's WORD TO YOU is what Biblical Faith is based on - i.e. THE CONVICTION OF SIN, and of judgement.

 

[Doug Brents]

I.e. not Biblical FAITH at all.

Exactly. And without Biblical faith (alive and active) being present BEFORE we receive salvation, salvation is not received (Eph 2:8-9).

Yup, and God's WORD TO YOU is what Biblical Faith is based on - i.e. THE CONVICTION OF SIN, and of judgement.

Conviction of sin, fear of judgement, and hope in the sinless live, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ as substitution for ours that leads to obedient action on our part to the commands that God says LEAD TO salvation: Acts 2:38, Rom 10:9-10, Acts 3:19, Mark 16:16 - Believe, Repent, Confess Jesus' as Lord, and be baptized.