brightfame52
Active Member
Huh?
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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Doug Brents
Active Member
I did so in the post you quoted (although you deleted the citation).
1 John 2:2, John 3:16, 2 Corinthians 5:15, 1 Peter 3:18, 1 Timothy 2:6, and Romans 5:18
brightfame52
Active Member
Not one of those verses say that specifically
brightfame52
Active Member
That fellow teaches salvation by works, I will put James White on him
Doug Brents
Active Member
Every one of them says "all", "all mankind", etc. 1 John 2:2 is very explicit that it is not just the saints, the "elect", but all mankind for whom Jesus died. You want to limit the language in these Scriptures while admitting that there is no Scripture that specifically limits who He died for. You are fighting a loosing battle.
He would mop the floor with White.
brightfame52
Active Member
Nowhere does scripture specifically says Christ died for all mankind,or everyone without expectation
brightfame52
Active Member
No he can't, I have seen their debating
He makes James White look like a beginner
brightfame52
Active Member
You entitled to your opinion
1 John 2:2 (NASB 95) — 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
synergy
Active Member
Justification is by faith and good works. (John 2:24). Sola Fide eliminates works which makes justification monergistic. Monergism, which is deterministic, is by definition no libertarian free will.
brightfame52
Active Member
That scripture doesn't say that.
Salty
Active Member
sure it does.
1john2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins; and not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
“Propitiation” is translated from the Greek ιγασµος, which denotes a propitiation or expiation of sin by an atoning sacrifice. “Propitiation” is the best translation because it means a continuous atonement. God the Father is continually propitiating the true believer’s sins according to His grace and mercy through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, as John shows in the previous chapter.
Oh, indeed it does.
1 John 2:2 (NASB 95) — 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world
The phrase whole world does not mean all the elect.
1 John 5:19 (NASB 95) — 19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
John 2:24 is
John 2:24 (NASB 95) — 24 But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men,
Justification by faith is seen here
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Phil 3:9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
Rom 3:24–26 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 9:30–32What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
synergy
Active Member
Sorry, I meant James 2:24.
(James 2:24) You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
I can also throw in James 2:26 for good measure:
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
No "faith alone" nor "only faith" here.
That is works of the Law. No Christian practices works of the Law. Our Christian predecessors kicked that custom many moons ago.
Same as above.
Same as above.
If you continue to the next verse you will confirm that the works mentioned there are works of the Law. Our Christian predecessors kicked that custom many moons ago.
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
That is righteousness from the Law. No Christian practices that. Our Christian predecessors kicked that custom many moons ago.
No "faith only" nor "only faith" here.
The Israel works are works of the Law. Christians don't practice works of the Law. Besides, there is no mention of "only faith" or "faith alone".
Only faith is mentioned here
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
and in the other verses
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.”
Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness,
Phil 3:9and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
Rom 3:24–26 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Rom 9:30–32What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
There is a difference in how James and Paul use the word faith
In Paul's use faith drives all the activity of man.
A man who truly has faith will act according to that faith
James however states
But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that a God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected; 23 and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS,” and he was called the friend of God. 24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
New American Standard Bible, 1995 Edition: Paragraph Version (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Jas 2:18–26.
James use of the word faith is of a weaker standard he compares to that which demons believe.
You believe that a God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder
New American Standard Bible, 1995 Edition: Paragraph Version (La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995), Jas 2:19.
We who argue for sola fide employ a definition of faith as does Paul.
Doug Brents
Active Member
You keep telling yourself that, but it just isn't so. That is your delusion talking.
Two questions for you to answer: what does the word "all" mean? Who all is part of "the whole world"?
