brightfame52
Active Member
You dont know what you want to discuss do you ? No man has the ability to believe in Christ.
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
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brightfame52
Active Member
I studied that word for over the past 3 decades, nothing you can enlighten me on. The drawing is the fruit of regeneration. The drawing is of the new creation, and they will all be taught of God to believe in Christ Jn 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Peterlag
Active Member
Again... I think God called everyone and only certain people answered the call.
brightfame52
Active Member
Jn 12:32 is the effect of the New Covenant Death, which New Covenant is limited to a Specific, Particular People Heb 8:8
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Now is all mankind the house of Israel and Judah ? NO and neither is Christs New Covenant Death.
No its not, all of Adams fallen seed belong to the House of Israel/Judah, only a segment of it.
TibiasDad
Active Member
Quote me a recognized lexicon that equate helko and paliggenesia as meaning the same thing. Strong, BDAG, Thayer, Wallace, Mounce? Nothing I have ever read defines helko as meaning paliggenesia. If I am missing something, please enlighten me. (Again, don’t worry, I’m not holding my breath…)
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
Hosanna
Active Member
We are drawn by the Gospel by the Holy Spirit,
If I be lifted up is part of a statement by Jesus Christ in John 12:32: “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me” John 12:32
Jesus wasn’t implying that every person without exception would put their faith in Him for salvation. Clearly, many did not. Jesus meant that people of all ethnic groups and from every part of the world would be drawn to Him through His exaltation in death. The “all people” included the Greeks who were seeking Jesus right then and listening to His voice.
When Jesus said, “I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself,” His primary reference was to the cross, but His words also include the resurrection and ascension in its meaning. Christ’s death, resurrection, and ascension are all linked to His glorious exaltation and the drawing of sinners to Himself. But it is the cross that is the centerpiece of the gospel and the magnetizing force of Christianity. Jesus Christ’s death on the cross, in all its magnitude of meaning revealed by the power of the Holy Spirit to human hearts, appeals to the whole wide world. No class, social status, race, nationality, sex, or age group is excluded from its attraction.
If I be lifted up is part of a statement by Jesus Christ in John 12:32: “And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me” John 12:32
Jesus wasn’t implying that every person without exception would put their faith in Him for salvation. Clearly, many did not. Jesus meant that people of all ethnic groups and from every part of the world would be drawn to Him through His exaltation in death. The “all people” included the Greeks who were seeking Jesus right then and listening to His voice.
When Jesus said, “I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself,” His primary reference was to the cross, but His words also include the resurrection and ascension in its meaning. Christ’s death, resurrection, and ascension are all linked to His glorious exaltation and the drawing of sinners to Himself. But it is the cross that is the centerpiece of the gospel and the magnetizing force of Christianity. Jesus Christ’s death on the cross, in all its magnitude of meaning revealed by the power of the Holy Spirit to human hearts, appeals to the whole wide world. No class, social status, race, nationality, sex, or age group is excluded from its attraction.
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
Wrong!! Everyone who came to Christ did so by their free will, their unproven hope in His calims to be our GOD and saviour!!
What should be claimed as that NO SINNER can come BACK TO Christ by their own freewill !
This is proven by the fact that the holy elect angels never sinned yet are in Christ by their own free will. Believing (elect) sinners, Jn 3:18, are not condemned, but after being flung into Sheol, Rev 12:4, in the Earth to be brought by conception into Adam, ie, mankind, Matt 13:36-39, will find redemption by grace not free will, sanctification and as holy, made ready to be HIS Bride in heaven.
brightfame52
Active Member
According to Jesus words here can a man by his own freewill ability come to Christ ? Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
2
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
2
brightfame52
Active Member
Im not quoting you nothing. Since when do you start dictating to me what to do ? Deal with what I have posted. You either believe it or you dont.
brightfame52
Active Member
Didnt He die, was lifted up to shed His Blood of the New Covenant ? Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Maybe you didnt realize that shedding His Blood and being lifted up on the Cross are relatively the same.
TibiasDad
Active Member
“I’m not quoting anything for you” is the proper response. It’s difficult for me to believe theology from someone who doesn’t seem to understand proper English grammar. Perhaps English is not your native language, and if that is the case, I am sorry for my expectations.
I’m sorry, is it unreasonable for me to expect you to substantiate your statement? Should I just believe you simply because you tell me something?
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
Okay so you know the deal
TibiasDad
Active Member
I’m sorry, is it unreasonable for me to expect you to substantiate your statement? Should I just believe you simply because you tell me something?
Doug
brightfame52
Active Member
you know the deal
TibiasDad
Active Member
civic
Active Member
Good you called his bluff
brightfame52
Active Member
Man by nature cant by his own freewill ability come to Christ because all men by nature are spiritually dead in [in the sphere of] trespasses and sins. Speaking of Gods elect Paul writes of them by nature Eph 2:1-3
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
The word dead here nekros means:
adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
The lifeless here by nature is lifeless spiritually. Spiritually to God and things of God man naturally is liken to a dead lifeless corpse.
Jesus used this same word here Matt 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Now the dead was to bury the dead. The Spiritually dead person was to bury the physically dead person. Yet the Spiritually dead person wasn't dead physically was he ? Did you know that one can be dead, lifeless and yet be physically live and active ?
Now in order for a man to come to Christ he must first have life, no not physical life but spiritual life which not even the elect have by nature.
And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
The word dead here nekros means:
adj: dead, lifeless, subject to death, mortal, (b) noun: a dead body, a corpse.
The lifeless here by nature is lifeless spiritually. Spiritually to God and things of God man naturally is liken to a dead lifeless corpse.
Jesus used this same word here Matt 8:22
But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Now the dead was to bury the dead. The Spiritually dead person was to bury the physically dead person. Yet the Spiritually dead person wasn't dead physically was he ? Did you know that one can be dead, lifeless and yet be physically live and active ?
Now in order for a man to come to Christ he must first have life, no not physical life but spiritual life which not even the elect have by nature.
TibiasDad
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
Believing is an evidence of ALREADY having eternal life
