Narcissism

[civic]

Narcissists can love, but this superficial and momentary affection serves as a way to get what they want from others. While their role as caring partners, parents, or friends may appear genuine, a lack of empathy and devotion to themselves renders narcissists unable to develop meaningful relationships.

How would this effect one’s theology and view of God ?

 

[Diserner]

I would think narcisisists would tend to be more thorough and intellectual about their theology, and thus more prone to feel pride in how much they have figured out, and how they are more right than others.

It's a very hard to bring the truth to others and not be tempted with secret pride about it. The flesh of man just loves to correct others and tell them how wrong they are, and I have succumbed too many times to this.

I repent of pride every day, and pray against it almost every time I post.

It's the hardest sin to see in ourselves, I think.

 

[civic]

I would think narcisisists would tend to be more thorough and intellectual about their theology, and thus more prone to feel pride in how much they have figured out, and how they are more right than others.

It's a very hard to bring the truth to others and not be tempted with secret pride about it. The flesh of man just loves to correct others and tell them how wrong they are, and I have succumbed too many times to this.

I repent of pride every day, and pray against it almost every time I post.

It's the hardest sin to see in ourselves, I think.

Watching this video from 2 former calvinists, one a pastor and the other a physiologist by profession sparked this thread. Knowing you from our interactions over the years would probably appreciate the discussion between these 2 men.

Borrowing Power in Calvinism with Doug Gustafson

Doug returns to discuss the concept of Borrowing Power in Calvinism.Please support this channel via PayPal, Zelle, or Wise at [email protected]...

www.youtube.com

 

[Diserner]

Beyond the Fundamentals... I've listened to him once in awhile for years. He just seems to make sophisticated word salads, I've never seen anyone do it so much. And be kind of saucy. But I do appreciate the recommendation.

We must remember, it is not just Calvinists who are tempted with pride. To focus all on "the other" guy and "how proud" they are, is in itself, a form of pride, and even worse—it is adding hypocrisy, judgmentalism and a superior spirit.

The worst thing we can do is always talk about how bad some other person or group of people are, and constantly obsess and focus on other peoples sins, no matter what and where and why.

I am working to refuse let myself meditate and talk on and on about how bad and sinful some other people are.

I try to reduce it to specific attitudes not attached to a person.

 

[civic]

Beyond the Fundamentals... I've listened to him once in awhile for years. He just seems to make sophisticated word salads, I've never seen anyone do it so much. And be kind of saucy. But I do appreciate the recommendation.

We must remember, it is not just Calvinists who are tempted with pride. To focus all on "the other" guy and "how proud" they are, is in itself, a form of pride, and even worse—it is adding hypocrisy, judgmentalism and a superior spirit.

The worst thing we can do is always talk about how bad some other person or group of people are, and constantly obsess and focus on other peoples sins, no matter what and where and why.

I am working to refuse let myself meditate and talk on and on about how bad and sinful some other people are.

I try to reduce it to specific attitudes not attached to a person.

The reason I said that is because of the discussion from a professional psychologist and pastor using scripture to get to the very heart of narcissism from childhood through adulthood and everything in-between. His guest does most of the talking and was under MacArthurs ministry for years just like I was.

 

[Wrangler]

How would this effect one’s theology and view of God ?

A narcissist is their own god.

 

[civic]

A narcissist is their own god.

here is an article I just found on the topic.

Narcissism + Christianity = Calvinism

Calvinism and Narcissism go hand-in-hand. Many label this cage-stage Calvinism but more accurately put it's what happens when a narcissist becomes a Christian. Since Narcissism is on the rise, so is Calvinism.

graceprovoked.org

 

[Burdock]

What caused Lucifer to fall from heaven? Scripture tells us that it was pride and I agree. But I wonder if narcissism fits in there somehow?

Lucifer was perfect “till iniquity was found in [him]” (Ezekiel 28:15). Isaiah 14:13–14 tells us what happened in Lucifer’s heart when he rebelled against God:

You have said in your heart: “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.”

Lucifer’s heart was captivated by pride. He decided it was no longer good enough to be an angel created in the beauty of God. Lucifer wanted to be like “the Most High.” He desired God’s place in heaven—God’s position, His power, His perfection, His privilege. And when Lucifer (day star) became Satan (adversary) due to this sin in his heart, he was banished from heaven (Ezekiel 28:16). His proud heart was the reason for his fall, and the Bible tells us he did indeed fall. Here are Jesus’ own words: “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

Here's another description of Lucifer as the worship leader in heaven.

Ezekiel 28:13
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Tabrets are some type of musical instrument. Satan also had pipes inside him and before he sinned when he spoke he actually sang the words.

 

[civic]

What caused Lucifer to fall from heaven? Scripture tells us that it was pride and I agree. But I wonder if narcissism fits in there somehow?

Lucifer was perfect “till iniquity was found in [him]” (Ezekiel 28:15). Isaiah 14:13–14 tells us what happened in Lucifer’s heart when he rebelled against God:

You have said in your heart: “I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.”

Lucifer’s heart was captivated by pride. He decided it was no longer good enough to be an angel created in the beauty of God. Lucifer wanted to be like “the Most High.” He desired God’s place in heaven—God’s position, His power, His perfection, His privilege. And when Lucifer (day star) became Satan (adversary) due to this sin in his heart, he was banished from heaven (Ezekiel 28:16). His proud heart was the reason for his fall, and the Bible tells us he did indeed fall. Here are Jesus’ own words: “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (Luke 10:18).

Here's another description of Lucifer as the worship leader in heaven.

Ezekiel 28:13
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Tabrets are some type of musical instrument. Satan also had pipes inside him and before he sinned when he spoke he actually sang the words.

its the ultimate example of narcissism thanks for pointing that out and we know God is nothing like the god of this world- polar opposites.

his desire if your complete sovereignty/control over all through the mark that they will be forced to worship him and live or else die. being forced/coerced to serve. the polar opposite of love.

now what religions think that was bout their god ?

 

[Administrator]

I would think narcisisists would tend to be more thorough and intellectual about their theology, and thus more prone to feel pride in how much they have figured out, and how they are more right than others.

It's a very hard to bring the truth to others and not be tempted with secret pride about it. The flesh of man just loves to correct others and tell them how wrong they are, and I have succumbed too many times to this.

I repent of pride every day, and pray against it almost every time I post.

It's the hardest sin to see in ourselves, I think.

Being able to see and admit something we struggle with is half the battle.

So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 1 Corinthians 10:12

 

[civic]

Being able to see and admit something we struggle with is half the battle.

So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! 1 Corinthians 10:12

Check out the video in the OP when you get some free time it also gets into the false humility aspect as well.

 

[Soyeong]

Narcissists can love, but this superficial and momentary affection serves as a way to get what they want from others. While their role as caring partners, parents, or friends may appear genuine, a lack of empathy and devotion to themselves renders narcissists unable to develop meaningful relationships.

How would this effect one’s theology and view of God ?

A narcissist would be focused on experiencing what God can do for them rather than on experiencing what they can do for God and relationships are founded upon being focused on experiencing what we can do for others.

Hypothetically, if I were to get married to someone because of their money, because they love me, because they give me warm feelings, because of their influence, or because of anything else that they can do for me, and I were to have no reason to want to remain married to them if they were lose or stop giving me those things, then I would not actually be in a marriage relationship with them, but rather I would be married to those things and have a business arrangement where I give them certain things in exchange for having the experience of them giving me those things. The only reason why I should enter into a marriage relationship with someone is if I want to have the experience of giving myself to them.

Love must be freely given without regard to what we experience from them in return in order to be love. If I were to get upset because someone didn't even thank me for helping them, then I would be doing it for the experience of getting thanked by them rather than for the experience of helping them.

The Mosaic Covenant is often described in terms of being a marriage relationship between God and Israel, and so the way to have a marriage relationship of knowing God is to love the experience of testifying about His righteousness and other aspects of His nature by walking in His way in obedience to His law (Exodus 33:13), which is why there are many verses in both the OT and the NT that connect our love for God with our obedience to Him. In other words, the Mosaic Law is God's instructions for how to have the experience of intimately knowing Him by giving ourselves to Him, which is eternal life (John 17:3, Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28).

 

[Rockson]

A narcissist would be focused on experiencing what God can do for them rather than on experiencing what they can do for God and relationships are founded upon being focused on experiencing what we can do for others.

With many I wouldn't go as far to say they're a narcissist for to what degree does on have to be in selfishness to warrant a label as such. People generally without even aware of it can be self motivated in what they do and why they do it.

Something to think about. A person goes to a potential new church. They have a check list. Later they ask, OK we're they a loving people? Did they shake my hand and make me feel welcome? NO???? Well then off to the next church and see how good they are! Did they ever stop to consider that maybe God would lead them actually to go to an unloving church for the reason to help their weaker brethren to mature out of their carnality?

I remember the story of one minister. He stated years prior when churches were canvassing for a new Pastor and he was open to a new position he'd pray....and God would tell him to be a Pastor at churches that no other Pastors wanted or tried out for. He felt though from God NO that's were I want you to go! He felt God telling him, "Look your strong in my might now work with my sheep and be a help to them and an aid to them." He'd do so and it was many times hard....years later when he left many, many Pastors wanted to try out (as they call it) for that church. Many , many Pastors then wanted it or to put it this way.....It was now a very loving church.

 

[Azriel]

How do we know that Pharisees and especially their leaders the Chief Priests were full of insolent pride (Narcissists)?

There are three ways:
Verses that directly refer to their insolent pride
Compare the traits and tactics of the Pharisees with what the Bible says about Narcissist traits and tactics
Compare the traits and tactics of the Pharisees with what the secular literature says about Narcissist traits and tactics

Narcissist Case Studies – Pharisees – How We Know They Were Narcissists, Part I

. How do we know that Pharisees and especially their leaders the Chief Priests were full of insolent pride (Narcissists)? There are three ways: . Verses that directly refer to their insolent pri…

biblicalperspectivesonnarcissism.com

 

[Rockson]

We must remember, it is not just Calvinists who are tempted with pride. To focus all on "the other" guy and "how proud" they are, is in itself, a form of pride, and even worse—it is adding hypocrisy, judgmentalism and a superior spirit.

I am working to refuse let myself meditate and talk on and on about how bad and sinful some other people are.

I just listened today to one of my favorite Bible teachers. He quoted a statement from Thomas à Kempis I thought was very good!

“What good does it do to speak learnedly about the Trinity if, lacking humility, you displease the Trinity?"

Hmmm...I thought interesting. Now I know many on this site like to have discussions on this subject and that's fine and legit. But I'm not just talking about just the Trinity and I don't think Kempis was either but rather about any Bible subject.

The thought he was trying to get across is because of our pride we get off and pride can belong as you say to all of us, We Can BE Right....And All The Time....We Are Wrong. No not maybe wrong about doctrine but about our spirit in how we talk. Kempis goes on to say,

Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him pleasing to God. I would rather feel contrition than know how to define it. For what would it profit us to know the whole Bible by heart and the principles of all the philosophers if we live without grace and the love of God?

Powerful statements I think and good food for thought. It can be pride that can cause us to cross the line in being RIGHT....and yet....be also WRONG or to not know what Spirit we're of. Luke 9:54

 

[Rockson]

So Narcissism

An interesting term. Not opposed to using it but it is a modern day lingo thing.

So it means to be self centered to the extreme?

I guess the Bible maybe describes this as,

But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly. Gen 13:13

Self centeredness to the extreme which is what the Bible says about our last days....perilous times and the love of many waxing cold. 2 Tim 3:1/ Matt 24:12 In other words a whole planet full of Narcissists.

 

[Azriel]

So Narcissism

An interesting term. Not opposed to using it but it is a modern day lingo thing.

So it means to be self centered to the extreme?

I guess the Bible maybe describes this as,

But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly. Gen 13:13

Self centeredness to the extreme which is what the Bible says about our last days....perilous times and the love of many waxing cold. 2 Tim 3:1/ Matt 24:12 In other words a whole planet full of Narcissists.

whole planet full of Ken and Karen's

Paul talks about his life before becoming “the Apostle of Grace.” It was marked by religious zeal, brutal violence, and the relentless persecution of the early church. He was very good at it. We find his own words on it In Philippians chapter 3

FOR THE rest, my brethren, delight yourselves in the Lord and continue to rejoice that you are in Him. To keep writing to you [over and over] of the same things is not irksome to me, and it is [a precaution] for your safety.
2 Look out for those dogs [Judaizers, legalists], look out for those mischief-makers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh.
3 For we [Christians] are the true circumcision, who worship God in spirit and by the Spirit of God and exult and glory and pride ourselves in Jesus Christ, and put no confidence or dependence [on what we are] in the flesh and on outward privileges and physical advantages and external appearances—
4 Though for myself I have [at least grounds] to rely on the flesh. If any other man considers that he has or seems to have reason to rely on the flesh and his physical and outward advantages, I have still more!
5 Circumcised when I was eight days old, of the race of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew [and the son] of Hebrews; as to the observance of the Law I was of [the party of] the Pharisees,
6 As to my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church, and by the Law’s standard of righteousness (supposed justice, uprightness, and right standing with God) I was proven to be blameless and no fault was found with me.
7 But whatever former things I had that might have been gains to me, I have come to consider as [one combined] loss for Christ’s sake.


My opinion that when he was sold out for Jesus after his "Road to Damascus experience" he became like Jesus, a humble servant.

 

[civic]

Full of Ken and Karen's

Paul talks about his life before becoming “the Apostle of Grace.” It was marked by religious zeal, brutal violence, and the relentless persecution of the early church. He was very good at it. We find his own words on it In Philippians chapter 3

FOR THE rest, my brethren, delight yourselves in the Lord and continue to rejoice that you are in Him. To keep writing to you [over and over] of the same things is not irksome to me, and it is [a precaution] for your safety.
2 Look out for those dogs [Judaizers, legalists], look out for those mischief-makers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh.
3 For we [Christians] are the true circumcision, who worship God in spirit and by the Spirit of God and exult and glory and pride ourselves in Jesus Christ, and put no confidence or dependence [on what we are] in the flesh and on outward privileges and physical advantages and external appearances—
4 Though for myself I have [at least grounds] to rely on the flesh. If any other man considers that he has or seems to have reason to rely on the flesh and his physical and outward advantages, I have still more!
5 Circumcised when I was eight days old, of the race of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew [and the son] of Hebrews; as to the observance of the Law I was of [the party of] the Pharisees,
6 As to my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church, and by the Law’s standard of righteousness (supposed justice, uprightness, and right standing with God) I was proven to be blameless and no fault was found with me.
7 But whatever former things I had that might have been gains to me, I have come to consider as [one combined] loss for Christ’s sake.


My opinion that when he was sold out for Jesus after his "Road to Damascus experience" he became like Jesus, a humble servant.

Amen

 

[Rockson]

whole planet full of Ken and Karen's

Hahaha....that makes me smile for in our home fellowship meeting somebody said something like, "There's so many Karen's in the world" Well there was a lady in the group who's name was Karen and she raised her voice and with a good sense of humor said, "Stop that! My name is Karen!"

 

[civic]

Hahaha....that makes me smile for in our home fellowship meeting somebody said something like, "There's so many Karen's in the world" Well there was a lady in the group who's name was Karen and she raised her voice and with a good sense of humor said, "Stop that! My name is Karen!"

I love it