Messiah Jesus is Made To Be a Liar According to the Wailing Wall

EclipseEventSigns

Well-known member
If you believe that Messiah Jesus was always correct and never lies, how do you explain Mark 13:1-2, Matthew 24:1-2, and Luke 21:5-6?

[Mar 13:1-2 LSB] 1 And as He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, "Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!" 2 And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down."

It's very clear that the New Testament Gospel writers record that Jesus predicted total and complete destruction of the 2nd temple complex. It is verified and accepted history that the Roman army beseiged, captured and ultimately destroyed the temple and the city walls in 70 AD.

Yet, we are told by the Jewish religious leaders and archaeologists that a portion of that temple still exists. The Wailing Wall. The western portion of the temple mount. It is considered one of the most holy sites.

Both can not be true. Either Messiah Jesus is a liar or Jewish tradition is believing a lie. Oh, but the inventive minds of Christian scholars provide an answer. They get around this problem by stating that the Wailing Wall is only the retaining wall of the temple - not really part of the temple itself. But Jesus said "not one stone will be left".

Josephus provides some inconvenient facts in his history. "NOW as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury, (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done,) Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind." War of the Jews, Book VII, Chapter 1

Josephus states the entire city AND temple were demolished. But scholars would have you believe that the army left the foundations intact. Josephus says that part of the city's western wall was spared including 3 truly magnificent towers. This western wall had nothing to do with the temple. But all of the rest of the wall was so thoroughly destroyed no one could even tell anything had ever been there. Anyone can research where the temple was located. It was part of the EASTERN wall of the city. That means, the temple buildings AND the retaining walls and complex would have been thoroughly demolished. Just as Jesus predicted.

But no one has ever discovered where the Roman fort of Antonia was. The fort that was located just north of the temple, on a hill which provided an overview of the temple complex. A fort that was a city within a city. Housing for an entire legion. Why would the Romans destroy their own massive fort? They wouldn't. So what the Jews consider the Wailing Wall and the current temple mount, is actually the location of that Antonia Fortress. They are deluding themselves and believing a lie.

This is an important realization. If any part of the temple still exists, then Jesus is made out to be a liar. Can you accept that?
 
Interesting as I have never thought of this before so I will have to think on it for a while. Thanks for starting this thread.
 
If you believe that Messiah Jesus was always correct and never lies, how do you explain Mark 13:1-2, Matthew 24:1-2, and Luke 21:5-6?

[Mar 13:1-2 LSB] 1 And as He was going out of the temple, one of His disciples said to Him, "Teacher, behold what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!" 2 And Jesus said to him, "Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone will be left upon another which will not be torn down."

It's very clear that the New Testament Gospel writers record that Jesus predicted total and complete destruction of the 2nd temple complex. It is verified and accepted history that the Roman army beseiged, captured and ultimately destroyed the temple and the city walls in 70 AD.

Yet, we are told by the Jewish religious leaders and archaeologists that a portion of that temple still exists. The Wailing Wall. The western portion of the temple mount. It is considered one of the most holy sites.

Both can not be true. Either Messiah Jesus is a liar or Jewish tradition is believing a lie. Oh, but the inventive minds of Christian scholars provide an answer. They get around this problem by stating that the Wailing Wall is only the retaining wall of the temple - not really part of the temple itself. But Jesus said "not one stone will be left".

Josephus provides some inconvenient facts in his history. "NOW as soon as the army had no more people to slay or to plunder, because there remained none to be the objects of their fury, (for they would not have spared any, had there remained any other work to be done,) Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple, but should leave as many of the towers standing as were of the greatest eminency; that is, Phasaelus, and Hippicus, and Mariamne; and so much of the wall as enclosed the city on the west side. This wall was spared, in order to afford a camp for such as were to lie in garrison, as were the towers also spared, in order to demonstrate to posterity what kind of city it was, and how well fortified, which the Roman valor had subdued; but for all the rest of the wall, it was so thoroughly laid even with the ground by those that dug it up to the foundation, that there was left nothing to make those that came thither believe it had ever been inhabited. This was the end which Jerusalem came to by the madness of those that were for innovations; a city otherwise of great magnificence, and of mighty fame among all mankind." War of the Jews, Book VII, Chapter 1

Josephus states the entire city AND temple were demolished. But scholars would have you believe that the army left the foundations intact. Josephus says that part of the city's western wall was spared including 3 truly magnificent towers. This western wall had nothing to do with the temple. But all of the rest of the wall was so thoroughly destroyed no one could even tell anything had ever been there. Anyone can research where the temple was located. It was part of the EASTERN wall of the city. That means, the temple buildings AND the retaining walls and complex would have been thoroughly demolished. Just as Jesus predicted.

But no one has ever discovered where the Roman fort of Antonia was. The fort that was located just north of the temple, on a hill which provided an overview of the temple complex. A fort that was a city within a city. Housing for an entire legion. Why would the Romans destroy their own massive fort? They wouldn't. So what the Jews consider the Wailing Wall and the current temple mount, is actually the location of that Antonia Fortress. They are deluding themselves and believing a lie.

This is an important realization. If any part of the temple still exists, then Jesus is made out to be a liar. Can you accept that?
You are kidding right? The fake Khazarians Jews who now live in the State of Israel whose ancestors never place their feet in the sands of Palestine, now say the Wailing Wall is part of the Temple so you now go with those who are against Christ. It does say quite a bit about you already don't you think?

And Christ was not a liar. The actual Second Temple came down as he predicted, in 70 AD.
 
You are kidding right? The fake Khazarians Jews who now live in the State of Israel whose ancestors never place their feet in the sands of Palestine, now say the Wailing Wall is part of the Temple so you now go with those who are against Christ. It does say quite a bit about you already don't you think?

And Christ was not a liar. The actual Second Temple came down as he predicted, in 70 AD.
Did you even READ the post?
 
Did you even READ the post?
I sure did, and it is misleading as to where you actually stand on the subject. You never came to a clear personal opinion or conclusion on whether you agreed or disagreed with any differing argument so I have to take it then, there is at least some doubt in your mind concerning Christ's words as your now OP reads.

I guess you never wanted to take any side you presented, right? And I made one for you based on your approach to the subject.
 
I sure did, and it is misleading as to where you actually stand on the subject. You never came to a clear personal opinion or conclusion on whether you agreed or disagreed with any differing argument so I have to take it then, there is at least some doubt in your mind concerning Christ's words as your now OP reads.

I guess you never wanted to take any side you presented, right? And I made one for you based on your approach to the subject.
I was VERY CLEAR. Read the last sentence.
 
I sure did, and it is misleading as to where you actually stand on the subject. You never came to a clear personal opinion or conclusion on whether you agreed or disagreed with any differing argument so I have to take it then, there is at least some doubt in your mind concerning Christ's words as your now OP reads.

I guess you never wanted to take any side you presented, right? And I made one for you based on your approach to the subject.
That is clear as mud I have to say. So if this is your indirect type or approach then I will know in the future, thanks anyway
 
Both can not be true. Either Messiah Jesus is a liar or Jewish tradition is believing a lie.

Jesus was NOT telling a LIE, but you are putting yourself in a lying position, simply because you have failed to understand the Scriptures. So you should be very careful with suggesting that Jesus could have told a lie in Scripture, and I know why you did it, to boost sensationalism and imagery. Still wrong to do that. Those in Christ are to speak plainly.

What Lord Jesus said about not one stone atop another was a prophetic blueprint that is also about the very end on the last day when He returns with His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives, and the Mount is split into a very great valley (per Zechariah 14).

That is also why... His disciples with Him upon the Mount of Olives asked what the SIGN of His coming AND the END of the world would be.

Matt 24:2-3
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying,
"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

What His disciples asked him after He mentioned not one stone atop another, they understood Him to be speaking of the END of this present world on the day of His future coming.

Apostle Paul spoke of that "sudden destruction" event from the Old Testament prophets on that day of Christ's future coming on the last day, the "day of the Lord". (1 Thess.5).

Thus the Wailing Wall that still stands today, which was part of the old 2nd temple complex structures, reveals that it is not yet the time for Christ's future coming and "sudden destruction" upon the earth that is to happen on that last day.
 
Jesus was NOT telling a LIE, but you are putting yourself in a lying position, simply because you have failed to understand the Scriptures. So you should be very careful with suggesting that Jesus could have told a lie in Scripture, and I know why you did it, to boost sensationalism and imagery. Still wrong to do that. Those in Christ are to speak plainly.

What Lord Jesus said about not one stone atop another was a prophetic blueprint that is also about the very end on the last day when He returns with His feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives, and the Mount is split into a very great valley (per Zechariah 14).

That is also why... His disciples with Him upon the Mount of Olives asked what the SIGN of His coming AND the END of the world would be.

Matt 24:2-3
2 And Jesus said unto them, "See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."

3 And as He sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto Him privately, saying,
"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"
KJV

What His disciples asked him after He mentioned not one stone atop another, they understood Him to be speaking of the END of this present world on the day of His future coming.

Apostle Paul spoke of that "sudden destruction" event from the Old Testament prophets on that day of Christ's future coming on the last day, the "day of the Lord". (1 Thess.5).

Thus the Wailing Wall that still stands today, which was part of the old 2nd temple complex structures, reveals that it is not yet the time for Christ's future coming and "sudden destruction" upon the earth that is to happen on that last day.
All of what you tried to say is untrue. As the the words of Jesus plainly say. And the eye witness account of Josephus attests to. You must be careful to not speak lies yourself.
 
All of what you tried to say is untrue. As the the words of Jesus plainly say. And the eye witness account of Josephus attests to. You must be careful to not speak lies yourself.

You are misleading the brethren in Christ here. What Josephus covered about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D. obviously omitted the existing Western Wall of the 2nd temple complex that is still standing with huge stones, which is also called the Wailing Wall. So for your 'theory' to be true, you would have to make that Western Wall of huge stones standing in Jerusalem today at the temple mount to disappear.
 
It didn't "obviously" do anything of the sort. Josephus very clearly says that Jerusalem's walls were destroyed to such an extent that no one could even tell there was anything there before. The temple completely erased from existence. No foundation. Nothing.
 
It didn't "obviously" do anything of the sort. Josephus very clearly says that Jerusalem's walls were destroyed to such an extent that no one could even tell there was anything there before. The temple completely erased from existence. No foundation. Nothing.
Like I said, Josephus OMITTED mention of the STILL existing Western Wall of the temple complex. Yet the proof that it was STILL there in his... days (100 A.D.), is the fact that it is STILL standing there today. This is so simple, it's impossible to muddy this truth like you're trying to do.
 
Like I said, Josephus OMITTED mention of the STILL existing Western Wall of the temple complex. Yet the proof that it was STILL there in his... days (100 A.D.), is the fact that it is STILL standing there today. This is so simple, it's impossible to muddy this truth like you're trying to do.T
That's simply a false statement. He clearly says "Caesar gave orders that they should now demolish the entire city and temple".
 
I was doing more research into the original location of both Solomon's Temple and the 2nd temple which was in the City of David. There are 2 very interesting verses which seem to be mistranslated in most English Bibles. The translators did not know their ancient geography.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/tools/interlinear/wlc-nasb95/psa/48/2/

[Psa 48:2 LSB] 2 Beautiful in elevation, the joy of the whole earth, Is Mount Zion [in] the far north, The city of the great King.

It is well understood that Mount Zion was located at Jerusalem. However, the phrase "in the far north" has always been problematic. In no way can Israel or Jerusalem be considered as "north", and especially not "far north". So commentators have had to speculate that this is referring to some future location during the millennium or some ancient place before the Flood. It all hinges on the Hebrew word "yereka". The translators say this is "the far side", "extreme". However, in other Bible passages it simply means "the side of" or "part".

The way the text is arranged, it can very easily be: "Mount Zion at the north end of the city of the great King". The northern most part of the City of David. And we know that Zion was located in the City of David.
[2Sa 5:7 LSB] 7 Nevertheless, David captured the fortress of Zion, that is the city of David.

This same word occurs elsewhere connected with "north".
[Isa 14:13 LSB] 13 "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.

Here again the translators put in a word meaning an extreme location without realizing what Isaiah was referring to. The Mount of Assembly. The Har Moed. Three times a year, all males in Israel were required to make their way to Jerusalem for the Feasts of Yahweh. These were the appointed times - the moedim. They assembled at the temple which Isaiah is saying is at the northern most part of the city.

There is a very obscure verse in Jeremiah which confirms that Zion and the temple were synonymous.
[Jer 26:18 LSB] 18 "Micah of Moresheth prophesied in the days of Hezekiah king of Judah; and he spoke to all the people of Judah, saying, 'Thus Yahweh of hosts has said, "Zion will be plowed [as] a field, And Jerusalem will become a heap of ruins, And the mountain of the house [will become] the high places of a forest."'

"The mountain of the house". The house of God was where He resided. The temple. Located on a mountain - equated with Zion.

Isaiah also equates the mountain of Yahweh with Zion and with the "house" or temple.
[Isa 2:3 LSB] 3 And many peoples will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of Yahweh, To the house of the God of Jacob, That He may instruct us from His ways And that we may walk in His paths." For from Zion the law will go forth And the word of Yahweh from Jerusalem.

The City of David, the original fortress that David conquered is the location of Mount Zion. It was at the northern part of the city. The location of the Gihon Spring. And there is a very intriguing archaeological discovery that has been made there recently. The discovery of an ancient temple located at the north part of the City of David. It dates back to the time of Abraham and could very well be the Melchizedek Temple.

Melchizedek's Temple

This temple is to the south of Gihon and has a stairway that leads down to several rooms. One contains the altar. This discovery was made after they dug through a portion that was clearly meant to seal off this holy place. They dated the sealing to the time of King Hezekiah and when he ordered all high places (false worship sites) to be completely destroyed. However, it is speculated that since this was an ancient altar to the true God Yahweh, that he did not destroy it but sealed it off so that people would not worship falsely there.

The main point being that this temple to Yahweh was also located at the north part of the city -at Mount Zion - just like the temple of Solomon. And just like the 2nd temple, the temple at the time of Messiah Jesus. This again shows that the Wailing Wall which is assumed to be the remnant of the temple is no where near the original site and is NOT part of any temple.
 
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