Love In Marriage

The Rogue Tomato

Well-known member
I made the point elsewhere that God does not say, "I will give you free will so you will love me" but he says, "I will change you so you will love me".

We're not God, so we can't change our own hearts. But assuming we could, here are two very difficult questions (IMO):

If you could change the heart of your wife so she would love you perfectly, would you do it?

If you could change your own heart to love your wife perfectly, would you do it?

Now ask yourself those questions in reverse order.
 
I made the point elsewhere that God does not say, "I will give you free will so you will love me" but he says, "I will change you so you will love me".

We're not God, so we can't change our own hearts. But assuming we could, here are two very difficult questions (IMO):

If you could change the heart of your wife so she would love you perfectly, would you do it?

If you could change your own heart to love your wife perfectly, would you do it?

Now ask yourself those questions in reverse order.

Do you really think no one here has ever asked these questions before?

My answer..... I wouldn't do either of them.

I know you would. You're flesh. Just like you witnessed in your OP.

It isn't REAL..... It means nothing. It is self serving. That is exactly how a man creates an idol out of God.

The value of God is not only found in what He does, but also in what He refuses to do Himself.
 
Last edited:
Do you really think no one here has ever asked these questions before?

My answer..... I wouldn't do either of them.

I know you would. You're flesh. Just like you witnessed in your OP.

It isn't REAL..... It means not. It is self serving. That is exactly how a man creates an idol out of God.

The value of God is not only found in what He does, but also in what He refuses to do Himself.
And we know love is not about self but others. Biblical love is so much different and better than the OP suggests.
 
I made the point elsewhere that God does not say, "I will give.. you free will so you will love me" but he says, "I will change you so you will love me".
...because when they chose to be sinners by their free will they lost the ability to love as GOD wants. HE is speaking to the fallen, to sinners, not HIS innocent creation.
 
...because when they chose to be sinners by their free will they lost the ability to love as GOD wants. HE is speaking to the fallen, to sinners, not HIS innocent creation.

In what bible did you read that? Are you talking about Adam and Eve, after which the fall occurs and nobody can love God of their own free will?
 
...because when they chose to be sinners by their free will they lost the ability to love as GOD wants. HE is speaking to the fallen, to sinners, not HIS innocent creation.

Man can only love relative to God through experience. This is true even after being "born again".
 
In what bible did you read that? Are you talking about Adam and Eve, after which the fall occurs and nobody can love God of their own free will?
I read it in the many bibles that teach that ALL the sons of of GOD saw the creation of the physical universe and sang HIS praises, Job 38:7, and then after some of the Sons of GOD chose to be sinful in HIS Sight, all sinners were flung into the earth (into Sheol inside the earth), Rev 12:4-9, from where the sinful people of HIS kingdom and the eternally sinful reprobate demons of the evil one are sown into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

I'm talking about the time of our innocence in the heavens before we chose to sin and then were flung into the earth to learn to be separate from the reprobate, Matt 13:27-30, so the postponement of the judgement could be brought to an end.
 
I read it in the many bibles that teach that ALL the sons of of GOD saw the creation of the physical universe and sang HIS praises, Job 38:7, and then after some of the Sons of GOD chose to be sinful in HIS Sight, all sinners were flung into the earth (into Sheol inside the earth), Rev 12:4-9, from where the sinful people of HIS kingdom and the eternally sinful reprobate demons of the evil one are sown into the world of mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

I'm talking about the time of our innocence in the heavens before we chose to sin and then were flung into the earth to learn to be separate from the reprobate, Matt 13:27-30, so the postponement of the judgement could be brought to an end.
Do you have an answer to my two questions?
 
I made the point elsewhere that God does not say, "I will give you free will so you will love me" but he says, "I will change you so you will love me".

We're not God, so we can't change our own hearts. But assuming we could, here are two very difficult questions (IMO):

If you could change the heart of your wife so she would love you perfectly, would you do it?

If you could change your own heart to love your wife perfectly, would you do it?

Now ask yourself those questions in reverse order.
God is love. It’s time you learn the biblical doctrine of love, not your humanistic understanding of love.

Gods love from the Scriptures and how we are to show that love to others.

John 3:16-18

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your Godwith all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

John 13:34-35
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

John 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

John 17:23
I in them and You in Me--that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.

1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. 13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Ephesians 5:2 and walk in love, just as Christ loved us and gave Himself up for us as a fragrant sacrificial offering to God.

Colossians 2:2
That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Colossians 3:12
Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

1 John 2
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

1 John 3
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

1 John 4:1-12
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith

1-Gods unconditional love. How many times do we sin against God and He forgives us our transgressions against Him? Psalm 103:12- He has removed our sins as far from us as the east is from the west. Isaiah 43:25- I, yes I, am He who blots out your transgressions for My own sake and remembers your sins no more.

2- Love is the #1-character trait of a believer. The fruit of the spirit is Love from which all the fruit of the spirit flows. 1 Corinthians 13:2-7 describes love in action.

If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

3- Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her. Ephesians 5:25.There are no conditions Jesus places on His bride. Jesus doesn’t hold her sins and unfaithfulness against her. He covers her sin, forgives and protects her.

4- Loving those who love you is not Gods love that is human love. Jesus said in Luke 6:32-33 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And indeed, if you do good to those doing good to you, what credit is it to you? For even sinners do the same. Luke 6:35- But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

1 John 4:20- If anyone says, "I love God," but hateshis brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

miseó: to hate

Original Word:
μισέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: miseó
Phonetic Spelling: (mis-eh'-o)
Definition: to hate
Usage: I hate, detest, love less, esteem less. properly, to detest (on a comparative basis); hence, denounce; to love someone or something less than someone (something) else, i.e. to renounce one choice in favor of another.


5- Love covers a multitude of sins, it doesn’t expose sin.

1 Peter 4:8- Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.

Proverbs 10:12- Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers all transgressions.

Proverbs 16:28- A perverse man spreads dissension, and a gossip divides close friends.

Proverbs 17:9- Whoever would foster love covers over an offense, but whoever repeats the matter separates close friends.

6- Love forgives as it’s been Forgiven.

Colossians 3:12-17

Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. 14 And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.15 Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. 16 Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts. 17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Ephesians 4:26-32
“In your anger do not sin”: Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27 and do not give the devil a foothold. 28 Anyone who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with their own hands, that they may have something to share with those in need.29 Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Get rid of all bitterness, rage and anger, brawling and slander, along with every form of malice. 32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

hope this helps !!!
 
I made the point elsewhere that God does not say, "I will give you free will so you will love me" but he says, "I will change you so you will love me".
I'm sorry but that first line made me think of God making robots to love him. He also doesn't give us free will to love him as we already had free will.

But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15

First, loving God requires knowing Him, and that knowledge begins with His Word. It may sound glib, but to know Him is to love Him. I agree that he does change us, he takes our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh.

To love God is to put Him first. The number-one commandment is to love God “with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength”

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26
 
I'm sorry but that first line made me think of God making robots to love him. He also doesn't give us free will to love him as we already had free will.

But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.” Joshua 24:15

First, loving God requires knowing Him, and that knowledge begins with His Word. It may sound glib, but to know Him is to love Him. I agree that he does change us, he takes our heart of stone and gives us a heart of flesh.

To love God is to put Him first. The number-one commandment is to love God “with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength”

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. Ezekiel 36:26
Or controls them like puppets. No love with a robot or puppet.
 
Or controls them like puppets. No love with a robot or puppet.
I find it odd that you're perfectly okay with God changing you in your glorified body so that you cannot sin, but assume that God is controlling you like a robot if He changes your inclination so that you can love Him and live.
 
I find it odd that you're perfectly okay with God changing you in your glorified body so that you cannot sin, but assume that God is controlling you like a robot if He changes your inclination so that you can love Him and live.
I find it odd you would choose to sin without a sin nature to sin and without a devil to temp you. And God temps no one. So there will be no temptation to sin in heaven.

Your humanistic views are showing again.

🤔
 
Last edited:
I find it odd that you're perfectly okay with God changing you in your glorified body so that you cannot sin, but assume that God is controlling you like a robot if He changes your inclination so that you can love Him and live.
Christian's still sin. A Christian will not receive his glorified body until the time of the rapture and resurrection. Then we will all receive them at the same time in heaven.
 
I find it odd you would choose to sin without a sin nature to sin and without a devil to temp you. And God temps no one. So there will be no temptation to sin in heaven.

Your humanistic views are showing again.

🤔
To quote you: "All the former will be done away with like the passages I quoted teach. Sin will never exist again in eternity with Christ. There will never be another rebellion against God. It will be perfect without the capability to sin."

"Without the capability" means God changes you, not that there won't be temptation.
 
To quote you: "All the former will be done away with like the passages I quoted teach. Sin will never exist again in eternity with Christ. There will never be another rebellion against God. It will be perfect without the capability to sin."

"Without the capability" means God changes you, not that there won't be temptation.
No sin , no devil , no temptation .

Is there sin or temptation in heaven now where Jesus is at this very moment ?

Yes or no

Once against we see your humanistic philosophy at work. See Colossians 2:8
 
No sin , no devil , no temptation .

Is there sin or temptation in heaven now where Jesus is at this very moment ?

Yes or no

Once against we see your humanistic philosophy at work. See Colossians 2:8
But that's not what you said. You said "Without the capability", not "without temptation".
 
Back
Top Bottom