Rockerduck
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Good point.
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civic
Well-known member
I do not think so since Christ has not returned and set up His kingdom which is still future.
When we examine the book of Revelation, we find similar references to the time of Gentile dominion ending with the return of Christ. In Revelation 11:2, John indicates that Jerusalem will be under Gentile rule, even though the temple has been restored. The armies of the Beast are destroyed by the Lord in Revelation 19:17–19, just before the millennial reign of Christ is initiated.
Looking again at Luke 21:24, we see that Jesus mentions a time in which Jerusalem is under the dominion of Gentile authority. Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of Jerusalem in 588 BC began that period, and it has continued through the present time. Romans 11:25 gives us a hint as to God’s purpose in the times of the Gentiles: the spread of the gospel throughout the whole world. The organization and inventions of the pagan world powers have actually aided the evangelism of the world. For example, in the first century, it was the widespread use of the Greek language and the network of Roman roads that allowed many people in far-off lands to hear the gospel.
One theme of Romans 11 is that, when the Jewish people rejected Christ, they were temporarily cut off from the blessings of a relationship with God. As a result, the gospel was given to the Gentiles, and they gladly received it. This partial hardening of heart for Israel doesn’t preclude individual Jews from being saved, but it prevents the nation from accepting Christ as Messiah until His plans are finished. When the time is right, God will restore the entire nation, and they will come to faith in Him once again, ending “the times of the Gentiles” (Isaiah 17:7; 62:11–12; Romans 11:26).got?
Hope this helps !!!
SteveB
Well-known member
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Simply put....God made no covenant with Gentiles.So now all Gentiles can apply for Israeli citizenship according to your mythological fables. First you want to ethnically cleanse us Gentiles and now you're granting us Israeli citizenship. Make up your mind what you want to do with us Gentiles. You're making our heads spin.
It doesn't say Israel will be under Gentile rule. It says Jerusalem will be trampled on indicating warfare inside the city. And this coincides with Zechariah:
1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, And thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and ethe women ravished; And half of the city shall go forth into captivity, And the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, As when he fought in the day of battle. Zech. 14:1–3.
Whether or not Israel uses its nukes is unclear but I promise you Israel will let some off the chain. They just won't do that within their city. It just might be a war of attrition. It will be an escalation, not a sudden attack.
This happened in 70 AD by the Romans.
This was the second exile. Assyria took the ten northern tribes in 722 BC. Babylon in 586 BC. But in time both empires were defeated, and the Jews were able to return to Jerusalem to rebuild the walls of the city. Take note that it was the two southern kingdom tribes (Judah and Benjamin) that returned to Israel and Scripture describes them as a remnant (about 10% of all Jews living at the time.) The majority - 90% - remained in conquered Assyria and in Babylon and in Gentile lands in-between. It was these people that knew nothing of Messiah's arrival that Jesus sent the disciples/apostles to herald His arrival and departure that He had come. It was important to God that His people know the one thing He wanted to communicate to them in Gentile lands: God has kept His Promise. THAT is the gospel message. And there were other 'gospel' [good news] messages. But for all intents and purposes the majority of Jews remained in Gentile lands and remained there for about 15-20 generations. And in that time Jews assimilated and learned Gentile ways and Greek culture. It was these Jews that were the subject of the Jerusalem Council. The question was whether or not these Hellenized Jews who received the Spirit of Promise were to be circumcised. Instead, the elders and apostles in Jerusalem gave these mixed-heritage Jews four precepts of the Law of Moses to obey (Acts 15.) They were not non-Hebrew Gentiles that are in view here for the apostles would NEVER instruct Gentiles to obey the Law of Moses. They were mixed-heritage Jews who grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture (Hellenized.) If they were non-Hebrew Gentiles and the apostles commanded them to obey these four precepts of the Law of Moses all of Jewry would be up in arms, there would be riots, and the apostles would lose all credibility. And they were all held in high regard as Jewish Christians. It was later that after being told about Israel's Messiah dying on a tree (stumbling block) consistently that unconverted Jews took issue and first excommunicated them out of the synagogues (which began home fellowship meeting places) and then outright persecution broke out (Heb. 6) against them.
That is what happen because of false teaching. Then, non-Hebrew Gentiles took over from the Hellenized Jews after the destruction of the Jewish Temple. In time and during these days God continued to save mixed heritage Hebrews (Abraham's seed) since He had promised that He would do that. You see, true, biblical Christianity was Hebrew in origin (Pentecost and beyond) but after the Jews and Jewish Christians were scattered again in 70 AD it was the Hellenized Jews that continued the Church that Christ built, but by being Hellenized and not knowledgeable in their Hebrew heritage growing up as Gentiles in a Greek culture, it took a few errors and soon non-Hebrew Gentiles - or the appearance of non-Hebrews Gentiles - took over and through false doctrine and misinterpretation these Hellenized Jews died out and non-Hebrew Gentiles were mixed in with Hellenized Jews and in time the Hebrew message and Hebrew salvation began to be erroneously taught to unbelievers and through false conversions a Gentile foothold took place. The rest is what we have today. The false idea of a Gentile covenant inclusion and Gentile "churches." Once these Hellenized Jews were in control, they through ignorance of their Hebrew/Jewish heritage and culture and religion unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots. But all that will be corrected. And when it does a great deal of Gentiles will be pissed off and feel threatened by the truth and join Gentile nations and oppose and war against Jews today and in the near future. The two Jewish witnesses will correct these Gentile errors and all of Gentile "Christendom" will be offended and contradict the Jewish heritage of true, biblical Christianity and there will be conflict:
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; Zec 14:2.
Here is the biblical record:
The Abraham Covenant is between God, Abram the HEBREW, and his HEBREW seed.
The Mosaic Covenant is between God and the children of Israel (Jacob.)
The New Covenant is between God and the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes) and Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.) There is no record in all of the Hebrew Scripture - the Scripture Saul said to Timothy 3:16-17 is for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. God made no covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles. None.
So, where does all this Gentile inclusion in the three Hebrew covenants come from? It's not in the bible. All the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation was written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jews and Jewish Christians. There is no such thing as a Gentile "Church." Thus, the identity of "Gentiles" in the NT can only be mixed-heritage Hebrews who are of the Diaspora due to the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests and exile. After that, there were two more scatterings of Jews. One was the Romans in 70 AD, the other by Nazi Germany in the 1930s and 1940s.
They were not cut off. Messiah was cut off. Three thousand Jews were born-again on Pentecost. Days/weeks later five thousand more Jews were converted to Messiah. God made Promise to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel) and He will keep His Promises no matter what Israel does. Israel is His Betrothed, Israel is His Church (called out [ones]), and Israel is the apple of His eye. Genesis to Malachi is a record of their covenant relationship and God still has promises to keep to Israel. They are His Chosen people - not Gentiles.
The good news of Messiah's arrival was sent INTO Gentile lands where the majority of Jews lived who didn't return with a remnant who did. The message was clear: Messiah had come, and God has kept His Promise.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev. 5:9.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. John 17:5–6.
The high priest does two things: prays for the people of God in covenant, and offers sacrifices for the people of God in covenant.
Jesus, as High Priest did the same thing: He prayed for the people of God in covenant (John 17) and offered Himself as sacrifice on the cross for the people of God in covenant. This is why Saul says:
4 Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom. 9:4–5.
and the confirmation:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal. 4:4–5.
When the Jews living when Messiah returns, they will occupy the Promised Land and Jesus will be King residing at Jerusalem. There will be no Gentiles living in the Promised Land for He will remove Gentiles out of the land. There will be no Canaanite there anymore. First time this to happen.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: And all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: And in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. Zech. 14:21.
In other words, no Gentiles. Where will the Gentiles live? Outside the Promised Land. And what happen to the Gentiles living outside the Promised Land and surrounding the Promised Land?
Only this:
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. Rev. 20:7–9.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. None. There is a great error being perpetrated in the world today and it is the false teaching that Gentiles are in the Abraham Covenant, and they misinterpret this verse among others to prove their deception:
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Gal. 3:28–29.
Notice it doesn't say "Gentile" but Greek, or Hellenized Hebrews. The only people that are inheritors of the Abraham Covenant are Hebrews, Abraham's seed. When a Jewish man approached Jesus and asked him how he could inherit eternal life Jesus directed him to the Law and instructed him to continue obeying it. And every born-again Jew whom Christ baptized into His body was Jew, or Hebrew. And after they became born-again, they continued to obey the Law of Moses because it was for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness. Even Saul continued to obey the Law of Moses after he met His Lord and Savior.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
What? You don't respect the record of God's relationship with the children of Israel. The whole of Scripture is a record of that relationship. From Genesis to Revelation is a record of His relationship with the children of Israel.
Israel is the rightful inheritors of both covenants given first to Abraham and later through Moses to Abraham's seed the children of Israel. Rightly dividing the Word of God I find no record of a covenant between God and Gentiles. None.
SteveB
Well-known member
What what?
Actually I do trust YHVH's Word.
it's your ideas of YHVH's Word i don't trust.
you have been posting incredibly bizarre ideas, and reject the salvation of YHVH being for non Jewish people, and need to justify it for mixed blood Jewish people only.
yep. It sure is.
yep.
yep.
Of course you don't.
Which is exactly why I consider you a bad source. Unreliable for Truth.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
To me Scripture is what tells me what to believe.
I don't tell the Word of God what to say.
Case in point...
There is no covenant between God and non-Hebrew Gentiles.
This means non-Hebrew Gentiles are not saved, never been saved, never will be saved.
What will you have if included with the Hebrew Covenant established between God and Abram the Hebrew and his Hebrew seed?
Do you know?
IF God made covenant with Abram the Hebrew, and with Abram's Hebrew seed, that God ALSO made covenant with non-Hebrew Gentiles? What will you have in this situation?
