You certainly can keep the promises to Christ in mind while studying scripture. But the focus of this thread has been (or was supposed to be) the relevance of the disciples' concept of the end. So the scriptural basis for their question, especially in the pre-resurrection context, must be used as the context for understanding the question and the answer. Scripture interpretation should be contextual within the culture, the time-frame, the specific interactions (like Jesus with the disciples), and the reader (like the apparent Jewish audience, as the likely primary target of Matthew).
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Let's Begin with the End
- Thread starter mikesw
- Start date
You certainly can keep the promises to Christ in mind while studying scripture. But the focus of this thread has been (or was supposed to be) the relevance of the disciples' concept of the end. So the scriptural basis for their question, especially in the pre-resurrection context, must be used as the context for understanding the question and the answer. Scripture interpretation should be contextual within the culture, the time-frame, the specific interactions (like Jesus with the disciples), and the reader (like the apparent Jewish audience, as the likely primary target of Matthew).
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You certainly can keep the promises to Christ in mind while studying scripture. But the focus of this thread has been (or was supposed to be) the relevance of the disciples' concept of the end. So the scriptural basis for their question, especially in the pre-resurrection context, must be used as the context for understanding the question and the answer. Scripture interpretation should be contextual within the culture, the time-frame, the specific interactions (like Jesus with the disciples), and the reader (like the apparent Jewish audience, as the likely primary target of Matthew).
There is NO promises to any "Jewish" audience without Christ. Again. You must start from the beginning.
A "Jewish" audience without Christ isn't Jewish at all.
That does not make sense. Are you actually claiming that no descendants of Judah existed in the first-century? Was there nothing that we might call Jewish culture? It really makes no sense to deny these basic truths. I suppose you may somehow mean that the gospel was only written to Jews who had accepted Christ. But you would have to argue why the broader culture would be omitted from hearing and interpreting the message of the gospel?There is NO promises to any "Jewish" audience without Christ. Again. You must start from the beginning.
A "Jewish" audience without Christ isn't Jewish at all.
I suspect you are using ideas you derive from Rom 2:17-29. However, that does not mean that the gospel of Matthew is only to Jewish followers of Christ. Nor would such a limitation change the point I have made.
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praise_yeshua
Active Member
It makes perfect sense. There is no Jew without faith in Messiah. Paul very clearly extended the word "Jew" beyond those in "Judah".That does not make sense. Are you actually claiming that no descendants of Judah existed in the first-century? Was there nothing that we might call Jewish culture? It really makes no sense to deny these basic truths. I suppose you may somehow mean that the gospel was only written to Jews who had accepted Christ. But you would have to argue why the broader culture would be omitted from hearing and interpreting the message of the gospel?
He is a Jew that is one inwardly. Circumcision of the heart. Stop trying to establish real Jews without Christ. That is the context of what you've written from the beginning in this thread about the "end". There is no Jew absent the sole heir of Abraham. Those you're referencing are the enemies of the Gospel. Isaac died. Only in Christ will Isaac ever live Eternally.
Christ is the first begotten from the dead. There is no Jew without Eternal Life in the Resurrection.
I don't accept the context you have "baked in" to your "end scenario". You're requiring me to accept your own dogma to even participate. I will not. Your comment are flawed from the beginning.
Even the remaining children of Abraham can have hope in Christ.
I don't buy what you're peddling.
Which scriptures are you least fond of? Maybe I can exclude those from the discussion. Do I remove every OT text after Genesis?It makes perfect sense. There is no Jew without faith in Messiah. Paul very clearly extended the word "Jew" beyond those in "Judah".
He is a Jew that is one inwardly. Circumcision of the heart. Stop trying to establish real Jews without Christ. That is the context of what you've written from the beginning in this thread about the "end". There is no Jew absent the sole heir of Abraham. Those you're referencing are the enemies of the Gospel. Isaac died. Only in Christ will Isaac ever live Eternally.
Christ is the first begotten from the dead. There is no Jew without Eternal Life in the Resurrection.
I don't accept the context you have "baked in" to your "end scenario". You're requiring me to accept your own dogma to even participate. I will not. Your comment are flawed from the beginning.
Even the remaining children of Abraham can have hope in Christ.
I don't buy what you're peddling.
Anyhow, I was not feeling in the mood to add your incorrect doctrine you made from Romans 2. That text is within a certain limited context. If you want to erase the bloodline of Judah before the second century, that creates a rather restrictive discussion on scripture. Is that what you really want conveyed?
Really. I just say that if this level of study is not interesting to you then many other discussions are available for you to enjoy. If you want to discuss the culture of Jerusalem and the related audience of Matthew, that could be a different thread.
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@mikesw
Thank you kindly brother, slowly coming around but not out of the woods yet ~ of course, at my age I will not get very far out, and that's okay. ~every day is a act of God's mercy to us and more than we deserve for sure.
Mike, before God, I love you humble spirit, it is obvious to me and I'm sure to others as well, that will serve you greatly in the kingdom of God, good things will surely follow such people, humility is glorious fruit we all need to improve on and cultivate until we take our last breath, may God help us all to be more like Jesus Christ who is the express, and perfect image of God.
Mike, very little any OT prophecies as I understand them are focusing on Jerusalem and the Jews during Jesus' generation upon the earth.
As far as the "range" I firmly believe that the OT scriptures and following onto the NT scriptures addressing the war between the righteous and the evil generation of vipers headed up by the the Old Serpent himself. The true biblical message in the scripture is Mount Zion, the New Jerusalem, God's city that he has built for himself to be his habitation; and Mystery Babylon the great, that consist in twofold, or is made up by its false religion and its commerce and entertainment, both which hates the saints of the most high. 70 A.D. theory has diverted much attention away from these truths.
You seem to follow sort of two things. One is roughly the idea of developing doctrine based on finding the first instance of something in scripture -- like you spoke of regarding Babylon. The second is more of an analogical and allegorical interpretation, perhaps like Thomas Aquinas (whom I have not read) or Philo of Alexandria (less likely to read).
I find the OT as primarily about the Israel history and their need for the Messiah. I think I've mentioned this point several times. The text gives enough direct statements about their condition that they should have perked their ears up at the arrival of Christ. They were then liable due to the obvious details. There also is apocalyptic language which is allegories and analogies that must be perceived into the physical or relational message. The latter is of their relationship with God. Although there may be confrontations with Satan's influence and similarly false gods promoted by Satan, that is not the sort of search I'm focused on. If my findings help toward that, all the better.
"3 Now as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the [a]end of the age?”"I sort of messed up by saying to check outside of scripture. That is not completely bad, but the real thing is to see what it means inside scripture. That is what I was showing in the original post. The only defined "end" is the end of the events surrounding Israel/Jerusalem, as expressed in several places in the OT.
Here are some specific types of uses of συντέλεια identified in the TDNT
>>
Outside the Bible this means ... “a common accomplishment” for public purposes, Demosth. Or.,20, 23, or a voluntary one
Gerhard Delling, “Τέλος, Τελέω,Ἐπιτελέω, Συντελέω, Συντέλεια, Παντελής,Τέλειος, Τελειότης, Τελειόω, Τελείωσις,Τελειωτής,” 64
>>
“expiration”of a year, 2 Ch. 24:23, “end” of the phase of the moon, Sir. 43:7(in both cases HT תְּקוּפָה “turning”);
Delling, idem. , 65
>>
Da. LXX also uses συντέλεια for קֵץ the eschatological “end” at 8:19, cf. too 11:27; 12:6 (in all these Θπέρας) and 12:13a (Θ the same); συντέλειαἡμερῶνis the transl. of קֵץ הַיָמִין at12:13b (also Θ). συντέλεια for “end” in a more gen. sense occurs for קֵץ at 9:26 (twice); 11:6, 13, 45; συντέλειακαιρῶν with no HT 9:27.
Delling, 65
>>
The version συντέλεια τοῦ αἰώνοςis peculiar to Mt. (→ VII, 232, 2 ff.). It occurs in interpretations of parables, 13:39 (without τοῦ),40, 49 (both in the fixed form οὕτωςἔσται ἐν τῇ συντελείᾳ τοῦ αἰῶνος). It is used by the disciples in 24:3 and is again in the material peculiar to Mt. in 28:20. Materially it refers to eschatological events which have still to take place (24:3; 28:20); of these judgment is especially mentioned, 13:39f., 49.
Delling, 66
I decided to show several ways the word was used and is pretty conventional, even similar to the English. (I normally do not want to add complicated word analyses into the short discussions.) The end in Dan 12:6 is the end used in Matt 24:3 since these two concepts would be interrelated in Jewish culture. We also see, beyond the total destruction of the Temple and the city, that the power of the people was shattered (Dan 12:7).
From Strongs concordance:
"From sunteleo; entire completion, i.e. Consummation (of a dispensation) -- end."
"Cognate: 4930 syntéleia (from 4862 /sýn, "close together with" and 5055 /teléō, "complete, consummate") – culmination (completion), i.e. when the parts come together into a whole ("consummation") – "an end involving many parts" (B. F. Westcott). See 4931 (synteléō).
4930 /syntéleia ("culminating end, finish") is not strictly "termination" but rather "consummation" (completion) that ushers in a new time-era/age (Mt 13:39,40,49,24:3, 28:20).
[The KJV is misleading by rendering 4930 (syntéleia) as "the end of the world" (i.e. when it occurs with aiōn, "age/epoch"). This expression actually means "at the "consummation of the age," i.e. when it reaches its intended climax (consummated conclusion).]"
What does Jesus say?
"36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not [y]understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two in the field; one [z]will be taken, and one [aa]will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding grain at the [ab]mill; one [ac]will be taken and one [ad]will be left." This speaks to the consummation of man's rebellion against God, and is covered by the white throne judgment in Revelation 20.
The flood was the consummation of the time of the early earth. Everything came together and all was destroyed except for Noah, his family, the animals on the Ark, and those which could survive outside. Everything was completely different after they came off the Ark. The works of man, the works of the fallen angels, etc. all came together (consummation) at the flood. All that evil reached its consummation at that point.
Revelation 20-21 deals with the consummation. The end of Revelation 20 is the end of this world, however that, as it says above, is not a proper nuanced translation. It is basically the end of the "book" God is writing, where all the plot lines, everything that happens reaches its consummation. Revelation 21 is the beginning of another book that never ends. The age of eternity, God and His children entering a new age, a new time.
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will [a]dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain. The first things passed away.”
The first things passed away. That is, they reached their consummation/completion. We say the end of the world becaseu we have "first heaven and the first earth passed away", and we have Peter saying that it is in fire. This world will end, for it too will reach its consummation. God destroys this world/creation because of the corruption of sin, and presents a New Heaven and New Earth, as well as a New Jerusalem.
So I don't leave it out, 2 Peter 3 "10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be [c]found out."
This all occurs at the consummation, the complete end. The reason it says complete end is because all the moving parts, every last plot line, comes together and has its end. No loose plot lines in God's story.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
many need to read again the holy scrips .There is NO promises to any "Jewish" audience without Christ. Again. You must start from the beginning.
A "Jewish" audience without Christ isn't Jewish at all.
Read acts . YOU be SPOT ON RIGHT my friend .
What our near and dear friend dont seem to understand is
JESUS IS THE PROMISE given unto the fathers , UNTO ISRAEL . but many in israel , just AINT OF ISRAEL .
GODS promise has not fallen and become of no effect
ITS JUST NOT ALL OF ISRAEL IS OF ISRAEL . THE SHEEP ARE OF THE ISRAEL OF GOD .
JESUS IS THE PROMISE and unto any and all
whether jew or gentile WHO reject HIM , I darn sure dont wanna be in those shoes .
But unto all who do receive HIM , OH PRAISE GOD ETERNAL LIFE and a HOME forever
with THE KING when once our walk is done on this earth . PREACH JESUS TO THE LAST breath my friend .
Never giving out one shred of some other false hope and fake love to anyone .
Cause any other IS BUT VAINITY . POINT to CHRIST till the last breath ebbs OUTTA those lungs .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
For he is not a jew which is one outwardlyThere is NO promises to any "Jewish" audience without Christ. Again. You must start from the beginning.
A "Jewish" audience without Christ isn't Jewish at all.
But he is a jew which circumsion is of the heart .
And now a major warning
that comes right from revelation .
Who say they are jews but are OF the synogogue of satan .
JESUS said it .
Same as HE said on earth . to the same unbelieving jews .
WHO said with boldness and upmost confidence
WE HAVE ONE FATHER ITS GOD .
But that aint the father JESUS said they had , NOW IS IT . he said YE are of your father the DEVIL .
People get things so easily mixed up cause they sure love the doctrines and precepts of men gone wrong .
SO allow me a simple reminder to all .
THERE IS ONLY ONE BODY OF GOD , OF CHRIST
THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN CHRIST JESUS .
THERE BE ONLY ONE WIFE , ONE BRIDE . AGAIN those who beleive IN JESUS .
There is only one true ISRAEL , one true JERUSALEM of GOD wherein the temple is GOD and the lamb .
the flesh profits NOTHING . BUT GOD DOES PROFIT a man . .
And unto all WHO DO BELEIVE IN HE WHOM GOD DID SEND , OH they shall profit indeed
ETERNAL LIFE and forever WITH THE KING who saved them is their reward . NOW aint that lovely .
You have just shown what may be the common mistake. You do not find any definition of an end from texts that Jews would be familiar with. Then you just quote some New Testament writings without relating those to the disciples' understanding of some sort of "end." As a consequence, you have not added insight into their question. You have only filled in whatever passages you feel match with Matt 24."3 Now as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the [a]end of the age?”"
From Strongs concordance:
"From sunteleo; entire completion, i.e. Consummation (of a dispensation) -- end."
"Cognate: 4930 syntéleia (from 4862 /sýn, "close together with" and 5055 /teléō, "complete, consummate") – culmination (completion), i.e. when the parts come together into a whole ("consummation") – "an end involving many parts" (B. F. Westcott). See 4931 (synteléō).
4930 /syntéleia ("culminating end, finish") is not strictly "termination" but rather "consummation" (completion) that ushers in a new time-era/age (Mt 13:39,40,49,24:3, 28:20).
[The KJV is misleading by rendering 4930 (syntéleia) as "the end of the world" (i.e. when it occurs with aiōn, "age/epoch"). This expression actually means "at the "consummation of the age," i.e. when it reaches its intended climax (consummated conclusion).]"
What does Jesus say?
"36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not [y]understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40 Then there will be two in the field; one [z]will be taken, and one [aa]will be left. 41 Two women will be grinding grain at the [ab]mill; one [ac]will be taken and one [ad]will be left." This speaks to the consummation of man's rebellion against God, and is covered by the white throne judgment in Revelation 20.
The flood was the consummation of the time of the early earth. Everything came together and all was destroyed except for Noah, his family, the animals on the Ark, and those which could survive outside. Everything was completely different after they came off the Ark. The works of man, the works of the fallen angels, etc. all came together (consummation) at the flood. All that evil reached its consummation at that point.
Revelation 20-21 deals with the consummation. The end of Revelation 20 is the end of this world, however that, as it says above, is not a proper nuanced translation. It is basically the end of the "book" God is writing, where all the plot lines, everything that happens reaches its consummation. Revelation 21 is the beginning of another book that never ends. The age of eternity, God and His children entering a new age, a new time.
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will [a]dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain. The first things passed away.”
The first things passed away. That is, they reached their consummation/completion. We say the end of the world becaseu we have "first heaven and the first earth passed away", and we have Peter saying that it is in fire. This world will end, for it too will reach its consummation. God destroys this world/creation because of the corruption of sin, and presents a New Heaven and New Earth, as well as a New Jerusalem.
So I don't leave it out, 2 Peter 3 "10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be [c]found out."
This all occurs at the consummation, the complete end. The reason it says complete end is because all the moving parts, every last plot line, comes together and has its end. No loose plot lines in God's story.
The best I can tell is that you do not know why they asked this question and how Jesus related the rest of that passage to their question. That type of mistake easily leads to misreading of scriptures. All you are doing is reading the bible to confirm what you think you heard. That is okay for people who do not want to go into any learning process through scripture. It just means you are not poised for discussing the meaning in a careful process.
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how are you able to totally miss what I say and speak incorrectly about my views in such a poetic fashion? I often find you affirming good points. Still, I usually skim past it because this sort of poetic response is not worth sorting through unless it seems really important.many need to read again the holy scrips .
Read acts . YOU be SPOT ON RIGHT my friend .
What our near and dear friend dont seem to understand is
JESUS IS THE PROMISE given unto the fathers , UNTO ISRAEL . but many in israel , just AINT OF ISRAEL .
GODS promise has not fallen and become of no effect
ITS JUST NOT ALL OF ISRAEL IS OF ISRAEL . THE SHEEP ARE OF THE ISRAEL OF GOD .
JESUS IS THE PROMISE and unto any and all
whether jew or gentile WHO reject HIM , I darn sure dont wanna be in those shoes .
But unto all who do receive HIM , OH PRAISE GOD ETERNAL LIFE and a HOME forever
with THE KING when once our walk is done on this earth . PREACH JESUS TO THE LAST breath my friend .
Never giving out one shred of some other false hope and fake love to anyone .
Cause any other IS BUT VAINITY . POINT to CHRIST till the last breath ebbs OUTTA those lungs .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
i didnt read what you wrote .how are you able to totally miss what I say and speak incorrectly about my views in such a poetic fashion? I often find you affirming good points. Still, I usually skim past it because this sort of poetic response is not worth sorting through unless it seems really important.
I only responded to what the other wrote .
So what did you write my friend .
ok then. I will take note that you were not reflecting on anything I said and leave it at that. Like I said, I only skim through the poetic style.i didnt read what you wrote .
I only responded to what the other wrote .
So what did you write my friend .
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
allow me a few words of clemency my friend .how are you able to totally miss what I say and speak incorrectly about my views in such a poetic fashion? I often find you affirming good points. Still, I usually skim past it because this sort of poetic response is not worth sorting through unless it seems really important.
Now before i write such words , PLEASE KNOW and UNDERSTAND that IN NO WAY
and i mean absolutely NO WAY do i boast in me . FAT CHANCE . the only goodness i have COMETH OF CHRIST .
But do allow some words .
MY MISSION has been to keep it simple , TO POINT ONLY TO CHRIST
to shut down any kind of false hope of salvation .
TO point NON STOP to CHRIST and to ensure all DO KNOW
whether jew or gentile, YA GOTS TO BELEIVE ON JESUS the CHRIST
and make sure its JESUS and not some other jesus .
GOD was the one who told me early on
when i had first began to visit sites .
WHEN I noticed so many odd and strange teachings .
You have to understand i was never raised in church
And all that i learned was in the bible itself FROM the SPIRIT .
AND in that bible DID THE LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY PUT ME to learn . AND what A LOVE
for TRUTH HE put on my heart . Just cant get enough of the lovely truth in the bible
ITS THE RIFT raft of these so called well educated men , who seem to be always learning
sounding every so wise , BUT CANT EVEN SEEM to grasp the simple truth .
NOT saying this against you my friend .
But anyway i was on the site
and i seen all these different views
And i kept wondering how these people can beleive such things and no matter
what proof i bring they would not hear it .
THEN a very small still voice came to me . AND it spoke ever so silently
as from within me and yet had come to me .
AND what did it say . GO TO and bring them the basic teachings OF JESUS
simple basic things AND YE SHALL SEE they will twist and omit and disregaurd certain ones .
AND you know what , THAT IS SO TRUE . no wonder they so blind . they dont even really love JESUS at all
just the jesus that honored their second or their third marriage
OR the jesus that held up that money
OR the jesus that held up a rainbow
OR a jesus that , GET THE POINT my friend . ITS NOT JESUS AT ALL they love or follow ,
ITS EAR TICKLING men and their own feelings and emotions .
I guest that is fine. One goal I have in the sharing on scripture is to show Jews that Christ came in fulfillment of their need for righteousness unaffected by their surroundings. I'm trying to highlight that for their benefit.allow me a few words of clemency my friend .
Now before i write such words , PLEASE KNOW and UNDERSTAND that IN NO WAY
and i mean absolutely NO WAY do i boast in me . FAT CHANCE . the only goodness i have COMETH OF CHRIST .
But do allow some words .
MY MISSION has been to keep it simple , TO POINT ONLY TO CHRIST
to shut down any kind of false hope of salvation .
TO point NON STOP to CHRIST and to ensure all DO KNOW
whether jew or gentile, YA GOTS TO BELEIVE ON JESUS the CHRIST
and make sure its JESUS and not some other jesus .
GOD was the one who told me early on
when i had first began to visit sites .
WHEN I noticed so many odd and strange teachings .
You have to understand i was never raised in church
And all that i learned was in the bible itself FROM the SPIRIT .
AND in that bible DID THE LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY PUT ME to learn . AND what A LOVE
for TRUTH HE put on my heart . Just cant get enough of the lovely truth in the bible
ITS THE RIFT raft of these so called well educated men , who seem to be always learning
sounding every so wise , BUT CANT EVEN SEEM to grasp the simple truth .
NOT saying this against you my friend .
But anyway i was on the site
and i seen all these different views
And i kept wondering how these people can beleive such things and no matter
what proof i bring they would not hear it .
THEN a very small still voice came to me . AND it spoke ever so silently
as from within me and yet had come to me .
AND what did it say . GO TO and bring them the basic teachings OF JESUS
simple basic things AND YE SHALL SEE they will twist and omit and disregaurd certain ones .
AND you know what , THAT IS SO TRUE . no wonder they so blind . they dont even really love JESUS at all
just the jesus that honored their second or their third marriage
OR the jesus that held up that money
OR the jesus that held up a rainbow
OR a jesus that , GET THE POINT my friend . ITS NOT JESUS AT ALL they love or follow ,
ITS EAR TICKLING men and their own feelings and emotions .
Also, I agree that people miss the simplest things in scripture and then do worse with the more complex scriptures.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
YES JESUS came in fullfillment of all our need for righteousness .I guest that is fine. One goal I have in the sharing on scripture is to show Jews that Christ came in fulfillment of their need for righteousness unaffected by their surroundings. I'm trying to highlight that for their benefit.
Also, I agree that people miss the simplest things in scripture and then do worse with the more complex scriptures.
Sadly many seem to reject and not submit TO THE righteousness of GOD
but rather go about trying to establish their own . WONT bode well for such either .
Now i know , i know what i am about to write
has met much resistance in times past .
YET TRUE IT IS . the unbeleiving jews and any other false religoin such as muslim , hindu , buddist
and well scores of others , MUST REPENT and BELEIVE ON CHRIST or perish .
Now the common response is always
DONT JUDGE , you dont know their hearts their are good people in all religoins
doing good in their own way .
SEEING NONE IS GOOD but GOD , THIS SHEEP GONNA KEEP POINTING to THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN
save man , WHO actually was RIGHTEOUS AND GOOD , JESUS THE CHRIST
and reminding them of the absolute dire need to BELEIVE ON HIM .
cause try as man may
HE simply cannot save himself .
LORD who then can be saved . WITH man it might be possible IF
NO SIR , HE SAID WITH MAN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE .
BUT NOT WITH GOD . JESUS IS THE ONLY ANSWER , ONLY NAME and ONLY HOPE one has TO BE SAVED .
Like I said. I can only skim through your posts and possibly see the point.YES JESUS came in fullfillment of all our need for righteousness .
Sadly many seem to reject and not submit TO THE righteousness of GOD
but rather go about trying to establish their own . WONT bode well for such either .
Now i know , i know what i am about to write
has met much resistance in times past .
YET TRUE IT IS . the unbeleiving jews and any other false religoin such as muslim , hindu , buddist
and well scores of others , MUST REPENT and BELEIVE ON CHRIST or perish .
Now the common response is always
DONT JUDGE , you dont know their hearts their are good people in all religoins
doing good in their own way .
SEEING NONE IS GOOD but GOD , THIS SHEEP GONNA KEEP POINTING to THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN
save man , WHO actually was RIGHTEOUS AND GOOD , JESUS THE CHRIST
and reminding them of the absolute dire need to BELEIVE ON HIM .
cause try as man may
HE simply cannot save himself .
LORD who then can be saved . WITH man it might be possible IF
NO SIR , HE SAID WITH MAN THIS IS IMPOSSIBLE .
BUT NOT WITH GOD . JESUS IS THE ONLY ANSWER , ONLY NAME and ONLY HOPE one has TO BE SAVED .
My ministry involves insights into the context of some letters of Paul that have seemed possibly only because God gave me a mind to study where few others have gone before. However God seems to say that the time has not come for even the basic findings to be studied and recognized by others. I also would be happy if I am in error on anything that someone competently would show that while also preparing better explanations.
Time will tell if I am on the right track with this material.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Which scriptures are you least fond of? Maybe I can exclude those from the discussion. Do I remove every OT text after Genesis?
Anyhow, I was not feeling in the mood to add your incorrect doctrine you made from Romans 2. That text is within a certain limited context. If you want to erase the bloodline of Judah before the second century, that creates a rather restrictive discussion on scripture. Is that what you really want conveyed?
Really. I just say that if this level of study is not interesting to you then many other discussions are available for you to enjoy. If you want to discuss the culture of Jerusalem and the related audience of Matthew, that could be a different thread.
Not trying to erase anything. It is history. Things change. Christ changed many many things.
All the apostles struggled with embracing Christ fully for what He IS Eternal. I do too. Such requires humility. Humility isn't very common today. Humility can be taught but it must be fully experienced before we ever really understanding it.
Either way. I said what I needed to say. You can take wherever you want it. Thanks
Indeed it does take humility to reexamine a system of theology so the bible speaks instead of one's beliefs. i began studying aspects of eschatology because I wanted to find which one was correct. None seem to be. I found the Matt 13 parables speak with a middle-of-time sense rather than a finalization of history. I find Daniel to be speaking primarily of the Israel people not of some yet-future events. And the things of Daniel appear to have been done since the time periods that are specified had to be completed -- the seventy sevens of years and the three and a half years. And I think someone said God knows how to share details about time.Not trying to erase anything. It is history. Things change. Christ changed many many things.
All the apostles struggled with embracing Christ fully for what He IS Eternal. I do too. Such requires humility. Humility isn't very common today. Humility can be taught but it must be fully experienced before we ever really understanding it.
Either way. I said what I needed to say. You can take wherever you want it. Thanks
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Indeed it does take humility to reexamine a system of theology so the bible speaks instead of one's beliefs. i began studying aspects of eschatology because I wanted to find which one was correct. None seem to be. I found the Matt 13 parables speak with a middle-of-time sense rather than a finalization of history. I find Daniel to be speaking primarily of the Israel people not of some yet-future events. And the things of Daniel appear to have been done since the time periods that are specified had to be completed -- the seventy sevens of years and the three and a half years. And I think someone said God knows how to share details about time.
If you want my penny....
I see all prophecy basically fulfilled in Christ. I see some future events that still exist for the faithful based upon the return of Christ to this earth. I don't believe anyone knows much more than this based upon what has been revealed in the context of "Scripture". Most all of those predicting things for the last two centuries are just "guessing" where "guessing" doesn't help much of anything. If I really thought I knew exactly how things were going to "play out", I'd say it. The more I learn the more I think we just can't know or even should know. I long for the kingdom of our Lord but I don't look forward to this world, as it is now, facing His appearing.
To live is Christ. That requires longsuffering and patience that I don't often have. The struggle is real in our lives to be part of this world and yet not be of this world.
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