Knowing God through Death

[praise_yeshua]

'* Yes, as Peter says (in my last quote from1 Peter 1:20) to that believing remnant of Israel under his care :-

And this is where we disagree.....

1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold,
1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
1Pe 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Verse 20 can not possibly be referencing "the remnant of Israel". Don't fall into the trap of Calvinism.

HE was foreknown. He was manifest in the last for "you/us".

Notice verse 21....

THROUGH HIM... are believers in God established.

The one chosen was Jesus Christ. Not us. HIM. The message is all about Him. Not US.

So when God was targeting making man in His own image and after His own likeness. Adam wasn't the target creation. The target was Jesus Christ from the very beginning.

If you start with this fact, you'll never lose sight of Jesus Christ again.

 

[Complete]

In Romans 11 Paul references Elijah's flight from Jezebel.​

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Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.​

​

Notice the words "Even so then at this PRESENT TIME". "The remnant" has existed throughout history. As it was so it now.....​

​

Ultimately, it is a collective of the faithful that haven't bowed the knee to any other. I call them "potential replacements" for all of us.​

​

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.​

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The forgotten. The "down and out". Those people despised by this world. Those same people receive MORE GRACE......​

​

God resists the proud but gives Grace to the humbled.​

'God hath not cast away His people which He foreknew.
Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias?
how He maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Lord, they have killed Thy prophets, and digged down Thine altars;
and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
But what saith the answer of God unto him?
I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men,
who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. (1Kings 19:10-18)
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant
according to the election of grace.'
(Rom 11:2-5)

Hello @praise_yeshua,

Yes, Paul uses this example to illustrate the fact that an election had taken place during the gospel period and that of the approx. 40 years covered by the book of Acts. In which a believing remnant was being called out of Israel. to join the ranks of, 'the Overcomers', for they were 'Overcomers' within their generation. as were those in the days of 1 Kings19:10-18 within theirs.

'To him that overcometh
will I grant to sit with Me in My throne,
even as I also overcame,
and am set down with My Father in His throne.'
(Rev.3:21 )

'And they overcame Him (Satan:- Rev.12:9)
by the blood of the Lamb,
and by the word of their testimony;
and they loved not their lives unto the death.'
(Rev.12:11)

(1John 5:4-5; Rev, 2:7,11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12 & 21; 21:7 )

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

@Complete reply#19
* Yes, as Peter says (in my last quote from1 Peter 1:20) to that believing remnant of Israel under his care :-

And this is where we disagree.....

1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold,
1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
1Pe 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Verse 20 can not possibly be referencing "the remnant of Israel". Don't fall into the trap of Calvinism.

HE was foreknown. He was manifest in the last for "you/us".

Notice verse 21....

THROUGH HIM... are believers in God established.

The one chosen was Jesus Christ. Not us. HIM. The message is all about Him. Not US.

So when God was targeting making man in His own image and after His own likeness. Adam wasn't the target creation. The target was Jesus Christ from the very beginning.

If you start with this fact, you'll never lose sight of Jesus Christ again.

'Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by Him do believe in God,
that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory;
that your faith and hope might be in God.'
(1Pet. 1:20-21)

Hello @praise-yeshua,

I did not say that verse 20 was referencing the remnant of Israel. You have misunderstood me.
Would you please tell me what Bible translation you are referencing?

Thank you again
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[praise_yeshua]

'Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by Him do believe in God,
that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory;
that your faith and hope might be in God.'
(1Pet. 1:20-21)

Hello @praise-yeshua,

I did not say that verse 20 was referencing the remnant of Israel. You have misunderstood me.
Would you please tell me what Bible translation you are referencing?

Thank you again
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I didn't use the word remnant in my response. I corrected your misunderstand of 1 Peter 1:20-21. You were not chosen. Christ was. This is clear from the words of 1 Peter 1:20-21.

You should agree with what Peter said.

As far as translation goes, I used the ESV at that time but it really doesn't matter what translation you use. They all say the same thing here.

Christ was chosen. Not us. Not you. Not me. Christ.

If you prefer a TR reading.... here is the KJV.

1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

The manifestation of Christ as mentioned in this verse settles and thought of this not referencing Jesus Christ.

 

[Complete]

I didn't use the word remnant in my response. I corrected your misunderstand of 1 Peter 1:20-21. You were not chosen. Christ was. This is clear from the words of 1 Peter 1:20-21.

You should agree with what Peter said.

As far as translation goes, I used the ESV at that time but it really doesn't matter what translation you use. They all say the same thing here.

Christ was chosen. Not us. Not you. Not me. Christ.

If you prefer a TR reading.... here is the KJV.

1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

The manifestation of Christ as mentioned in this verse settles and thought of this not referencing Jesus Christ.

'
'Forasmuch as ye know
that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold,
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained
before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by Him do believe in God,
that raised Him up from the dead,
and gave Him glory;
that your faith and hope might be in God.'
(1Pe 118-:21)

Hello again @praise_yeshua,

Yes I asked which translation you had used because I wanted to refer to it, that is all. I also have no difficulty in understanding what 1 Peter 1:20-21 has to say, and am not in disagreement with you on it as you appear to believe.

Peter wrote these words to the believing remnant of Israel dispersed among the nations, to whom he was commissioned to minister the gospel of the circumcision (Gal. 2:7-9), as can be witnessed in the words 'from your fathers' in verse 18 (above) and the address on the envelope of 1 Peter 1:1. This was not addressed to the Church which is the body of Christ to which I claim membership by the grace of God, For though all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable to us, not all is ABOUT us.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[praise_yeshua]

'
'Forasmuch as ye know
that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold,
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained
before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by Him do believe in God,
that raised Him up from the dead,
and gave Him glory;
that your faith and hope might be in God.'
(1Pe 118-:21)

Hello again @praise_yeshua,

Yes I asked which translation you had used because I wanted to refer to it, that is all. I also have no difficulty in understanding what 1 Peter 1:20-21 has to say, and am not in disagreement with you on it as you appear to believe.

Peter wrote these words to the believing remnant of Israel dispersed among the nations, to whom he was commissioned to minister the gospel of the circumcision (Gal. 2:7-9), as can be witnessed in the words 'from your fathers' in verse 18 (above) and the address on the envelope of 1 Peter 1:1. This was not addressed to the Church which is the body of Christ to which I claim membership by the grace of God, For though all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable to us, not all is ABOUT us.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Can you name those fathers?

 

[Complete]

Can you name those fathers?

Hello @praise_yeshua,

When the word, 'the Fathers' is used. it refers to the ancestors of those being addressed. I cannot begin to know them in this case, for the context does not signify who they were. Sometime you can tell that it is such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that are being referenced, but not here. So 'No' I cannot name them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[praise_yeshua]

Hello @praise_yeshua,

When the word, 'the Fathers' is used. it refers to the ancestors of those being addressed. I cannot begin to know them in this case, for the context does not signify who they were. Sometime you can tell that it is such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob that are being referenced, but not here. So 'No' I cannot name them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Why wouldn't you go back before Abraham? It is a matter of theological methodology.

 

[Complete]

Why wouldn't you go back before Abraham? It is a matter of theological methodology.

'Forasmuch as ye know
that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, (Rom 1:19-25)
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained
before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by Him do believe in God,
that raised Him up from the dead,
and gave Him glory;
that your faith and hope might be in God.'
(1Pe 1: 18-21)

Hi @praise_yeshua,

I was merely reciting examples, not giving a consideration of all the Fathers who could be in question. What theological methods did you use to determine who they were?

The word translated, 'Fathers' (Gr. Patroparadotos - 'handed down from your Fathers') is only used here in 1 Peter 1:18. Yet the description of what was handed down, as being corruptible and vain does not indicate such Fathers as Abraham , Isaac and Jacob, or Moses, who were God fearing). The mind goes to Romans 1:19-21.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[praise_yeshua]

'Forasmuch as ye know
that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, (Rom 1:19-25)
from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
But with the precious blood of Christ,
as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
Who verily was foreordained
before the foundation of the world,
but was manifest in these last times for you,
Who by Him do believe in God,
that raised Him up from the dead,
and gave Him glory;
that your faith and hope might be in God.'
(1Pe 1: 18-21)

Hi @praise_yeshua,

I was merely reciting examples, not giving a consideration of all the Fathers who could be in question. What theological methods did you use to determine who they were?

The word translated, 'Fathers' (Gr. Patroparadotos - 'handed down from your Fathers') is only used here in 1 Peter 1:18. Yet the description of what was handed down, as being corruptible and vain does not indicate such Fathers as Abraham , Isaac and Jacob, or Moses, who were God fearing). The mind goes to Romans 1:19-21.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Does verse 17 shed any light on what Peter is trying to relate?

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Peter here is rehearse the same revelation he received as recorded in Acts 10.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

In this context, you must include those before Abraham.

The idea that the "remnant" is relative to only Israel is not true. It is a group from all ages that haven't "bowed the knee" to idols of imaginations.

The only Person chosen before the word began was Jesus Christ. He is the "chosen" of God.

All this "nonsense" (not saying you're full of nonsense. Just dealing with the nonsense of the teaching/thought") about multiple individuals being "chosen" before the foundation of the world dishonors Christ.

When Adam was made formed he was made of non-eternal material. The dichotomy/trichotomy nature of Adam was not complete from the beginning. He was a work in progress. Through experiencing death himself (Adam) he has learned about God. God sharing in man existence in the Person of Jesus Christ and man learning about Jesus Christ. This process was necessary in "making man in His own Image and after His own likeness."

Our theology comes full circle in such teachings.

 

[Complete]

Does verse 17 shed any light on what Peter is trying to relate?​

​

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:​

​

Peter here is rehearse the same revelation he received as recorded in Acts 10.​

​

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:​

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.​

​

In this context, you must include those before Abraham.​

​

The idea that the "remnant" is relative to only Israel is not true. It is a group from all ages that haven't "bowed the knee" to idols of imaginations.​

​

The only Person chosen before the word began was Jesus Christ. He is the "chosen" of God.​

​

All this "nonsense" (not saying you're full of nonsense. Just dealing with the nonsense of the teaching/thought") about multiple individuals being "chosen" before the foundation of the world dishonours Christ.​

​

When Adam was made formed he was made of non-eternal material. The dichotomy/trichotomy nature of Adam was not complete from the beginning. He was a work in progress. Through experiencing death himself (Adam) he has learned about God. God sharing in man existence in the Person of Jesus Christ and man learning about Jesus Christ. This process was necessary in "making man in His own Image and after His own likeness."​

​

Our theology comes full circle in such teachings.​

Thank you for respond to me, I will give give it all some more thought.

In Christ Jesus
Chris