Jesus & The Thief

Olde Tymer

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Paradise.jpg

The thing is: according to John 20:17, Jesus didn't go up when he died. Iin point of
fact according to Matt 12:40 he went down into the netherworld. So the paradise he
spoke of on the cross wasn't up in the sky, rather, it was down in the ground. More
than likely it was the pleasant environment that at one time accommodated
Abraham and Lazarus in the scene depicted by Luke 16:19-31.
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The thing is: according to John 20:17, Jesus didn't go up when he died. Iin point of
fact according to Matt 12:40 he went down into the netherworld. So the paradise he
spoke of on the cross wasn't up in the sky, rather, it was down in the ground. More
than likely it was the pleasant environment that at one time accommodated
Abraham and Lazarus in the scene depicted by Luke 16:19-31.
_

It is important to understand that in the transcripts that were translated, there were no commas. Translators placed them according to their preconceived understanding of the letter. In this case, the placing of the Comma contradicts almost the entire Bible, and implies, and has been used to promote a philosophy that men can live their entire lives as thieves and murderers, but "believe" in the last seconds of their life and they are granted immortality in Paradise with God. No repentance, not turning to God, no bringing forth works or fruits worthy of repentance. Just call Jesus Lord, Lord on your death bed, and you are all set.

It's a very seductive and popular religious philosophy promoted by "Many" who come in Christ's Name.

But look what happens when the comma that didn't exist in the original transcript that was being translated, is moved to the other side of one word.

New American Standard Bible
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise."

New International Version
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

New King James Version
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise."

New Living Translation
43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

New Revised Standard
43 He replied, "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

World English Bible
43 Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

Weymouth New Testament
43 "I tell you in solemn truth" replied Jesus, "that this very day, you shall be with me in Paradise."

Wycliffe
43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to thee this day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Young's Literal Translation
43 and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee to-day, with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

And my favorite Translation, the Concordant Literal Version which stays as close to the original Greek as possible.

CLV " And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

They didn't place the Comma where other translations did, rather, they kept to the truth of Scriptures..

But look at the impact of that comma? The entire message is changed depending on which side of ONE Word it is placed on. Now the Words of Christ align perfectly with every other Word He and His Father Spoke.

So, What do we know about this sinner?

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me "when thou comest into" thy kingdom.

This man knew God. He knew of the Kingdom of God. He confessed his sins and knew he was guilty and worthy of the punishment. He knew the Christ. He knew of Jesus' Teaching of His Father's Kingdom. He knew of the sinlessness of Jesus, and that HE didn't deserve this death. And he asked Jesus to remember these things.

This man died in Faith, died in hope that Jesus would remember him. He died in Christ. We know he repented, we know he turned to God, maybe from prison, and who knows how long he was there. This man will die and remain dead until the Christ comes back, and he is raised from the dead when the dead in Christ rise first, like Lazurus and Abraham. And we also know that the dead, don't even know they are dead. They have no concept of time, or consciousness. This is proven by the Lazurus and Abraham story. The rich man was raised and already saw Lazurus and Abraham but had no idea that he had been dead for a thousand years after Abraham and Lazurus were raised. He also didn't know his brothers had also been dead for probably centuries.

When the thief's eyes open, he will see the Christ, and Abraham and Lazarous. No different than Jesus being dead for 3 days and nights, and having His Eyes opened and seeing the angel of God in the tomb He was placed in, while HE was dead.

The comma changes everything. Changes Jesus Words from contradicting His Father's Words, Paul's Words, and His Own Words, to showing Jesus was aligned perfectly with the entire bible, when HE said to the repentant sinner, ""Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."
 
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The comma changes everything. Changes Jesus Words from contradicting His Father's Words,
Paul's Words, and His Own Words, to showing Jesus was aligned perfectly with the entire bible,
when HE said to the repentant sinner, ""Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be
in paradise."


Well; we'll just have to wait and see, won't we.
_
 
The comma changes everything. Changes Jesus Words from contradicting His Father's Words, Paul's Words, and His Own Words, to showing Jesus was aligned perfectly with the entire bible, when HE said to the repentant sinner, ""Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

Peace to you in Jesus Christ Studyman, and I agree.

Even the placement of "an apostrophe" can change a thing.

For example it is written here of Christ

1 Cr 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

But if we removed the 's and wrote it as the following, it reads

1 Cr 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God.

Which would be no big deal knowing Christ is the Word, for example it reads

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

But what if there was actually an apostrophe 's left out there and it read,

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God's.

Which would still be no big deal seeing Christ belongs to God, or is God's, just as we belong to Christ (or are Christ's 1 Cr 3:23)

In otherwords, "His Christ".

Another example of this shown in Rev 20:6 which reads

Rev 20:6 ..."the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ"

Similar to, 1 Cr 3:23 that Christ is God's.

And this is Just looking at a few verse here (as far as an apostrophe goes) but they would seem to work either way. An old friend had pointed out the apostrophe thing in one verse and when I looked, and compared around I thought, this is interesting. Some people get defensive as if you are trying to squash Christ mentioned as God altogether whenever touching on things like that. Psalm 45:6 which is God speaking to the Son (Jesus Christ) as God even as Hebrews 1:8 shows, that remains.
 
Peace to you in Jesus Christ Studyman, and I agree.

Even the placement of "an apostrophe" can change a thing.

For example it is written here of Christ

1 Cr 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

But if we removed the 's and wrote it as the following, it reads

1 Cr 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God.

Which would be no big deal knowing Christ is the Word, for example it reads

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

But what if there was actually an apostrophe 's left out there and it read,

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God's.

Which would still be no big deal seeing Christ belongs to God, or is God's, just as we belong to Christ (or are Christ's 1 Cr 3:23)

In otherwords, "His Christ".

Another example of this shown in Rev 20:6 which reads

Rev 20:6 ..."the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ"

Similar to, 1 Cr 3:23 that Christ is God's.

And this is Just looking at a few verse here (as far as an apostrophe goes) but they would seem to work either way. An old friend had pointed out the apostrophe thing in one verse and when I looked, and compared around I thought, this is interesting. Some people get defensive as if you are trying to squash Christ mentioned as God altogether whenever touching on things like that. Psalm 45:6 which is God speaking to the Son (Jesus Christ) as God even as Hebrews 1:8 shows, that remains.

Thank you for the heart felt reply.

I do agree that men should Seek the Kingdom of the One True God that Jesus worshiped and prayed to, and who HE instructed me to worship and pray to. As HE said, "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The reason why I questioned the "comma" in the Thief story, is because where it was placed by modern translations, contradicted so much of Jesus' Other Words, and the Words of the Apostles HIS Father gave Him, and the Prophets His Father sent, before His Father sent Him.

I Love the God Inspired Words of David.

Ps. 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of "thy kingdom" is a right "sceptre". 7 Thou (The Sceptre of God's Kingdom) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, "thy" (The Sceptor of God's Kingdom) God, "hath anointed thee" with the oil of gladness above "thy" (The Sceptre of God's Kingdom) fellows.

I know what you mean about "trying to squash Christ". There is a popular religious philosophy promoted by Many religious organizations of this world, "Who come in Christ's Name", that preach when the going got tough for Jesus, as it does for all Faithful men, HE just kicked in a little God Power that no other human has ever had access to. And that HE overcame sin in this world by this Power that no other Human was given. They teach that "Jesus was God" and this is how HE overcame temptation. Of course, anyone who possessed such power could be sinless just as Jesus was. And yet His Father, "Because" of His Obedience, gave Him a name above all other men. I think this popular doctrine completely demeans the Christ's Faith in God, and the extraordinary commitment to His Father's Will, and selflessness that HE maintained throughout His Life. It makes a mockery of His Life and makes His Father a respecter of persons, in my view.

It's akin to God being coach of a team, whose Son is also on the team. And the coach gives HIS Son performance enhancing drugs but withholds the same from all the other fellows. Then when His Son outperforms all the other players, because of the performance enhancing drugs, His Father gives Him the Glory, and the Trophy.

Psalms 45 certainly doesn't promote such a philosophy. I don't think the Bible supports this philosophy at all, given what is actually written.

I think the Hebrews author understood this.

Heb. 1: 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

I am so thankful to God for making this same Jesus, the Sceptor of His Kingdom. I Love that God made Jesus the advocate between His God and my God, and me. I think Paul felt the same way.

2 Cor. 1: 2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be God, even "the Father "of our Lord" Jesus Christ", the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

Truly, the Jesus of the Bible is my Lord and Savior, sent by His God and my God, according to all that is written;

Eph. 4: 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

1 Cor. 3: 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. 20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. 21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; 22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

23 And ye are Christ's; (Given to Him by God His Father) and Christ "is God's".

According to the rest of the Scriptures, I think the translators got this one right.

Keep seeking my friend and take Heed of the "course of this world" that calls Jesus Lord, Lord. We can always trust what is actually written in scriptures; "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works". We can't always trust the many, who come in Christ's Name.
 
The reason why I questioned the "comma" in the Thief story, is because where it was placed by modern translations, contradicted so much of Jesus' Other Words, and the Words of the Apostles HIS Father gave Him, and the Prophets His Father sent, before His Father sent Him.
I just wanted to comment here because "To day" could also be "a To day" (from it's particular beginning to end) that is a very long period of time (and not just a 24 hour period of time) too, even as it is written, "As long as its called To day" (harden not your hearts) right? So there is that backdrop to a "To day". Just as Jesus Christ is the same, "Yesterday, To day, and Fo rever" (the first two are not 24 hour periods of time, and the last one obviously isnt).

Besides, I dont even think it's necessary for a person to physically die to go to paradise if Paul himself said that he knew such a man who was caught up into paradise (whether in the body or out of the body) he could not tell.
 
I just wanted to comment here because "To day" could also be "a To day" (from it's particular beginning to end) that is a very long period of time (and not just a 24 hour period of time) too, even as it is written, "As long as its called To day" (harden not your hearts) right? So there is that backdrop to a "To day". Just as Jesus Christ is the same, "Yesterday, To day, and Fo rever" (the first two are not 24 hour periods of time, and the last one obviously isnt).

Besides, I dont even think it's necessary for a person to physically die to go to paradise if Paul himself said that he knew such a man who was caught up into paradise (whether in the body or out of the body) he could not tell.

This is an interested reply although it doesn't really address my post at all, or the points made therein. But nevertheless, it is interesting.

I think, according to the what the Scriptures actually say along with the reality of our life in this world, that it is much simpler than you promote. "Yesterday, could mean any time that is past, or the day before "to day". And Tomorrow could mean any time that has not yet come to pass, AKA, "Future", or the day after "to day". This is demonstrated in the scripture over and over.

But "To day", is used in the KJV 71 times. And in Every Instance, it refers to now, today, this day. Please consider what I have found to be undeniable truth.

In this world God placed me in, I have been given "Power", by God, to "DO" things. Eat, walk, speak, serve, etc., etc. But I find that the power God gave me only exists "To day" or "Right Now". I have no power to "DO" anything yesterday, nor have I any power to "Do" something tomorrow. The only "TIME" I have any power to serve, worship, honor, lie, steal, cheat, is "NOW".

This is undeniably true. I might be able to "see" the Past though film, pictures, books, etc. And I might be able to "See" the future, with visions. But I have no power in them to obey, disobey, repent, sin, nothing. The only time I have any Power to worship God, Glorify Jesus, "Yield myself to God" or "Harden not my heart", is NOW. "To day".

So then, given these undeniable Truths, when God inspires His Word to tell me, "To day, if you hear God's Voice harden not you heart", I know HE is speaking to the "NOW". Not times past, times future. And in His Tender Mercy HE has given me many "Nows" or To days in which NOT to harden my heart, and those examples God had written for my admonition did, spoken of by Paul in 1 cor. 10.

The same would apply for the Words of God, "Jesus Christ, the same Yesterday, "To day" and forever. This means that no matter how many "Nows" God has given me, no matter how many "To Days" I have been given, the Jesus "of the Bible" is the SAME.

If you disagree with this understanding, please show in scriptures where it is taught against.

As for Paul's vision, I agree that there are several men who had a vision of Paradise, who had not yet died. Elijah, Moses, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, Ezekiel, Ananias, of course Paul, Steven, John, etc. I'm sure there were more.

Please consider; Jesus died, the thief died, Lazurus died. Abraham died, the rich man died. There is nothing in Scriptures that teaches that these men "went to Paradise" upon their death, or the same day as their death. Jesus was dead for 3 days. The Bible said HE was the First Man to be raised from the Dead and Changed. And that was 3 days and nights after HE died and was buried.

That is why Jesus didn't tell the thief that he would be with Christ in Paradise "Today", being the "DAY" of His Death. Because HE was dead for 3 days. To preach that HE did, as "MANY" of this world's religious promoters, who call Jesus Lord, Lord, preach, is a denial of the very Words of the Christ Himself. That is why, when Every Word of God in this matter is examined, the CLV is the correct Translation, and the text should read, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

And when Jesus comes back, as the Scriptures teach, the "Dead in Christ" shall rise first. The thief, Abraham, Lazurus, Steven, and all the Faithful with be raised from the dead. That is my hope in this life.

Now you know this is taught against by this world's religious system "who come in Christ's name". This is why Jesus warned us to "Take Heed" that we are not deceived by these "Many".

I am simply a nobody who has separated myself from this world's religious system, for over 30 years now. And I advocate that men stop listening to all the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in and trust the Words Jesus said to Live by. If you find that this understanding of Scriptures is not supported when all of God's Word is considered, then please show me. After all, the Holy scriptures are profitable "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".
 
This is an interested reply although it doesn't really address my post at all, or the points made therein. But nevertheless, it is interesting.
I typically try to stay with what I can address and whatever I can't follow in anothers post I might leave alone and/or set aside to avoid too many back and forths and more words where we might continue to miss one another.
 
I typically try to stay with what I can address and whatever I can't follow in anothers post I might leave alone and/or set aside to avoid too many back and forths and more words where we might continue to miss one another.

I was addressing your post, examining your philosophy and sharing my thoughts. I thought that is why we have these discussions. I don't want to miss you, or ignore your post, as that seems disrespectful. That is why I took so much time on your statements and was hoping for an honest, open discussion concerning this topic. If I am continuing to "missed you", I am sorry, it isn't my intent. And frankly I worked to give your post the time and attention it deserved.

If you don't want to address my post, I'm OK with that. But I would ask that you don't promote the reason for your lack of interest, was because I was continuing to miss you, without first explaining where.
 
The thing is: according to John 20:17, Jesus didn't go up when he died. In point of fact
according to Matt 12:40 he went down into the netherworld. So the paradise he spoke of on the
cross wasn't up in the sky, rather, it was down in the ground.

FAQ: Paradise is subterranean?

REPLY: It appears to me that any heavenly venue is paradise. So then I think we
can safely assume that paradise isn't restricted to a single location-- for example
the afterlife zone that at one time provided accommodations for Lazarus and
Abraham in the story told at Luke 16:19-31) the so-called the third Heaven (2Cor
12:2-4) and the paradise of God. (Rev 2:7)

In other words: I rather suspect that the sphere of paradise is a whole lots more
extensive than we've thus far been told about it.

For example the New York City park system. There's first of all the mega
recreational area called Central Park; but that isn't New York's only recreational
area. There are lots of smaller parks throughout the city that although they have
their own individual names-- e.g. The Highline, Bryant, World Trade Center,
Washington Square, etc -- they're all incorporated in the New York City park
system, and they are all paradise in comparison to the rest of the city; in point of
fact, the Greek word translated paradise basically refers to a park, e.g. an Eden.


NOTE: According to Luke 16:23 the condemned folks over in the incendiary section
of the netherworld can look across to paradise and see what they're missing: sort of
like destitute urchins gazing thru the window of a posh restaurant at what people
have on their plates.
_
 
FAQ: Paradise is subterranean?

REPLY: It appears to me that any heavenly venue is paradise. So then I think we
can safely assume that paradise isn't restricted to a single location-- for example
the afterlife zone that at one time provided accommodations for Lazarus and
Abraham in the story told at Luke 16:19-31) the so-called the third Heaven (2Cor
12:2-4) and the paradise of God. (Rev 2:7)

In other words: I rather suspect that the sphere of paradise is a whole lots more
extensive than we've thus far been told about it.

For example the New York City park system. There's first of all the mega
recreational area called Central Park; but that isn't New York's only recreational
area. There are lots of smaller parks throughout the city that although they have
their own individual names-- e.g. The Highline, Bryant, World Trade Center,
Washington Square, etc -- they're all incorporated in the New York City park
system, and they are all paradise in comparison to the rest of the city; in point of
fact, the Greek word translated paradise basically refers to a park, e.g. an Eden.


NOTE: According to Luke 16:23 the condemned folks over in the incendiary section
of the netherworld can look across to paradise and see what they're missing: sort of
like destitute urchins gazing thru the window of a posh restaurant at what people
have on their plates.
_
Is there a question in this somewhere?
 
Hello @jeremiah1five,

I believe that the word 'paradise' is specific, and applies to a specific place.

The thief is told that he will be there, in that place, with the Lord Jesus Christ, not on the day that he was told this, for as has already been said, the Lord Jesus Christ did not go anywhere either in the flesh or in spirit on that day, for He died, and was taken down from the cross, and placed in the grave.

'For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.'

(1 Pet. 3:18-20)

* When quickened into life by the Spirit, He, by the Spirit, went and preached unto the spirits (angels) in prison in Tartaroo.

* I believe that the paradise referred to, could be that of Revelation 2:7, and is the garden of Eden, for the tree of life is there, in the paradise of God, on the new earth.

'He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,
which is in the midst of the paradise of God.'

(Rev 2:7)

(See also Revelation 22:2 & 14)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Hello @jeremiah1five,

I believe that the word 'paradise' is specific, and applies to a specific place.

The thief is told that he will be there, in that place, with the Lord Jesus Christ, not on the day that he was told this, for as has already been said, the Lord Jesus Christ did not go anywhere either in the flesh or in spirit on that day, for He died, and was taken down from the cross, and placed in the grave.
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Luke 23:39–43.

paradise: [Strong's Greek #3857] of Oriental origin [compare [Hebrew #6508] (pardec)]; a park, i.e. (special) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”)

The word is found three times in Scripture OT/NT. Strong defines the word as "park" or "Eden" which could very well be a reference to "Eden" where the OT souls of the dead might be. But I find that most Christians when reading or studying the place of the dead fail to consider the 'realm' of the dead and what happens after someone dies. The body is buried and the soul of the elect saved goes immediately before God. Everyone at the moment of death goes before God before the Great White Throne judgment.

What Christians or believers failed to understand is the change that takes place when someone dies. They are all changed from the temporal to the eternal. In other words, when anyone dies they go before God immediately because God exists in eternal, while men are born and then die in the temporal. Thus, when someone dies we all go before the throne because with God there is no 'time' and because there is no 'time' with God we all die in one 'moment' and then the judgment. So, from God's perspective of the eternal everything is said and done, the elect is with God and Jesus and the non-elect are judged into the Lake of Fire, or "eternal separation from God."
'For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.'

(1 Pet. 3:18-20)

* When quickened into life by the Spirit, He, by the Spirit, went and preached unto the spirits (angels) in prison in Tartaroo.
That is the textbook answer that Jesus Christ when He died went to a certain place and preached to the dead, but that cannot be. Peter is describing Noah as a preacher of righteousness, and it was HIS PREACHING to everyone not his family of coming destruction through flood. When Jesus died, His body was buried and Jesus' soul/consciousness went to the Father and is the First Fruits, being the first to do so in death. Jesus did not go anywhere else, not to "hell" or "tataroo" or any other place. He went to His Father.

Noah, through the anointing of the Spirit was the one who did the preaching, not Jesus.
* I believe that the paradise referred to, could be that of Revelation 2:7, and is the garden of Eden, for the tree of life is there, in the paradise of God, on the new earth.

'He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches;
To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life,
which is in the midst of the paradise of God.'

(Rev 2:7)

(See also Revelation 22:2 & 14)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
I tend to see it the same way. Since from Adam to Christ no one went to "heaven" or to God in death. They may have been sent to Eden and when Jesus died went with Jesus to be with God and emptied Eden. But factor in the dispensation of time. We live in time. And the reason why "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" might be Saul's same understanding when factoring being 'translated' from the temporal (time) and changed or prepared to be changed into the eternal. This is instantaneous upon the moment at death.

Remember, "in the twinkle of an eye" we are changed, corruption into incorruption.
But remember also, eternalness is an Attribute of God. That is one of His "glories." And He gives His glory (eternalness) to no one. But, if we are hid in Christ, it is the Eternal Spirit that maintains us as "eternal" while we are hid in Him (Christ/Spirit.)
Ya falla?
 
It is important to understand that in the transcripts that were translated, there were no commas. Translators placed them according to their preconceived understanding of the letter. In this case, the placing of the Comma contradicts almost the entire Bible, and implies, and has been used to promote a philosophy that men can live their entire lives as thieves and murderers, but "believe" in the last seconds of their life and they are granted immortality in Paradise with God. No repentance, not turning to God, no bringing forth works or fruits worthy of repentance. Just call Jesus Lord, Lord on your death bed, and you are all set.

It's a very seductive and popular religious philosophy promoted by "Many" who come in Christ's Name.

But look what happens when the comma that didn't exist in the original transcript that was being translated, is moved to the other side of one word.
1000% x1000 =YES.

That was taught to me 5 decades ago and makes such perfect sense.

This is what we all have grown up with in KJV and all other copycats. "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise."

Moving that comma which WASNOT in the original languages we have.

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee today, shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Perfectly understood.


New American Standard Bible
43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you today, you shall be with Me in Paradise."

New International Version
43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

New King James Version
43 And Jesus said to him, "Assuredly, I say to you today, you will be with Me in Paradise."

New Living Translation
43 And Jesus replied, “I assure you today, you will be with me in paradise.”

New Revised Standard
43 He replied, "Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

World English Bible
43 Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."

Weymouth New Testament
43 "I tell you in solemn truth" replied Jesus, "that this very day, you shall be with me in Paradise."

Wycliffe
43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to thee this day, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Young's Literal Translation
43 and Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee to-day, with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'

And my favorite Translation, the Concordant Literal Version which stays as close to the original Greek as possible.

CLV " And Jesus said to him, "Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."

They didn't place the Comma where other translations did, rather, they kept to the truth of Scriptures..

But look at the impact of that comma? The entire message is changed depending on which side of ONE Word it is placed on. Now the Words of Christ align perfectly with every other Word He and His Father Spoke.

So, What do we know about this sinner?

40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me "when thou comest into" thy kingdom.

This man knew God. He knew of the Kingdom of God. He confessed his sins and knew he was guilty and worthy of the punishment. He knew the Christ. He knew of Jesus' Teaching of His Father's Kingdom. He knew of the sinlessness of Jesus, and that HE didn't deserve this death. And he asked Jesus to remember these things.

This man died in Faith, died in hope that Jesus would remember him. He died in Christ. We know he repented, we know he turned to God, maybe from prison, and who knows how long he was there. This man will die and remain dead until the Christ comes back, and he is raised from the dead when the dead in Christ rise first, like Lazurus and Abraham. And we also know that the dead, don't even know they are dead. They have no concept of time, or consciousness. This is proven by the Lazurus and Abraham story. The rich man was raised and already saw Lazurus and Abraham but had no idea that he had been dead for a thousand years after Abraham and Lazurus were raised. He also didn't know his brothers had also been dead for probably centuries.

When the thief's eyes open, he will see the Christ, and Abraham and Lazarous. No different than Jesus being dead for 3 days and nights, and having His Eyes opened and seeing the angel of God in the tomb He was placed in, while HE was dead.

The comma changes everything. Changes Jesus Words from contradicting His Father's Words, Paul's Words, and His Own Words, to showing Jesus was aligned perfectly with the entire bible, when HE said to the repentant sinner, ""Verily, to you am I saying today, with Me shall you be in paradise."
 
And he said unto Jesus,
Lord, remember me
when Thou comest into Thy kingdom.
And Jesus said unto him,
Verily I say unto thee To day
shalt thou be with Me in paradise.'

(Luke23:42-43)

Hello @MTMattie,,

The words, 'I say unto thee today', is a Hebraism, which is used many times in Scripture: e.g., in Deuteronomy 4:26, 'I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day',it is a solemn idiom, used to emphasise the solemnity of an occasion,or of the facts being stated; like an apostrophe in grammar.Apparently it is used on forty-two occasions in Deuteronomy alone (e.g., Deut 30:19; 2 Sam. 20:20; Job 27:5; Isa. 14:24; Isa. 62:8; Jer.22:5; 27:5; Ezek. 5:11; 33:11; 34:8).

*Paul's words are also noted for the use of the same idiom, in Acts20:26:- ' Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

*There is a figure of speech here called 'Deasis' or'adjuration' - an expression of feeling by Oath or asseveration. or a calling to witness. The figure is used when the speaker or writer calls God or heaven to witness to the truth of what is said, or to the facts which he states.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Perfectly understood.

Well; seeing as how both sides of the aisle have pretty strong arguments relative to
the correct selection and positioning of the punctuation in Luke 23:43, then I guess
we'll just have to wait and see which side got it right.
_
 
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