James White affirms Libertarian Free Will.

[brightfame52]

God is light in whom there is no darkness at all, per 1 John 1:5.

A god who would create people who have no ability to respond or be saved is a god in whom there is much darkness.

Now, insisting upon the interpretation that makes God out to have much darkness in him, when there are other reasonable ways to interpret the scriptures you site, I'd be inclined to reconsider.

You evaded the point, the teaching of freewill makes God a respecter of persons.

 

[brightfame52]

What does in Adam mean? The only place that phrase is even used is 1 Corinthians 15:22. There it signifies the entire human race. And in that verse the corresponding phrase "in Christ" signifies the entire human race as well because it is speaking of the resurrection at the end of the age when Christ returns and that includes the entire human race.

The phrases "in Adam" and "in Christ" do not appear anywhere in Romans 5.

Again, you simply make stuff up to fit your fraudulent and deceptive religion.

Again Rom 5 is about the elect and their sin and recovery. 1 Cor 15 is also only about the elect, their natural existence and death, versus their resurrection from the dead via Christ, neither is about the entire human race. The non elect are totally exempt from each context. And nothing in Rom 5 or 1 Cor 15 supports the freewill of man

 

[Jim]

Again Rom 5 is about the elect and their sin and recovery. 1 Cor 15 is also only about the elect, their natural existence and death, versus their resurrection from the dead via Christ, neither is about the entire human race. The non elect are totally exempt from each context. And nothing in Rom 5 or 1 Cor 15 supports the freewill of man

Everyone will be resurrected at the end of the age.

 

[Jim]

You evaded the point, the teaching of freewill makes God a respecter of persons.

No, it doesn't because absolutely everyone has freewill.

 

[brightfame52]

Everyone will be resurrected at the end of the age.

i know, but 1 Cor 15 and Rom 5 aint about everyone.. but the Chosen of God

 

[brightfame52]

No, it doesn't because absolutely everyone has freewill.

Yes it does. Sure everyone has a will, yet according to many freewillers, God chooses who He sees who will exercise their will towards Him and saves them, but the one who use their will to reject Him, He punishes, so He shows respect of persons, the one that does the best with their will gets the reward, so since all freewillers are sinners, some separate themselves from other sinners which make God choose them above others.

Wherein the True Doctrine of God, is God Sovereignly chooses who He separates from sinners, who are all dead in sin and depraved equally, and He by His Grace decided one sinner over the other.

 

[Jim]

Wherein the True Doctrine of God, is God Sovereignly chooses who He separates from sinners, who are all dead in sin and depraved equally, and He by His Grace decided one sinner over the other.

There is nothing true about that. It presents God as an ugly monster that delights in condemning most of humanity to hell.

 

[brightfame52]

There is nothing true about that.

Of course its not to you, but thats not my problem. I dont go by what you can see in scripture.

It presents God as an ugly monster that delights in condemning most of humanity to hell.

Blasphemey

 

[Jim]

Blasphemey

Yes, now you understand what the stuff you preach is.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, now you understand what the stuff you preach is.

You the one calling God a Ugly Monster

 

[Jim]

You the one calling God a Ugly Monster

No, you are with your TULIP religion.

 

[brightfame52]

No, you are with your TULIP religion.

Tulip Truths are the Gospel, and for that you blaspheme God

 

[Jim]

TULIP is the blaspheme.

 

[Kampioen]

Of course its not to you, but thats not my problem. I dont go by what you can see in scripture.

Blasphemey

And you say everyone speaks passively off of God's predetermined script. You deny active libertarian free will. Then if anyone speaks blasphemy it was apparently God's idea. But who are you to judge God's script? Are you libertarian?

 

[AaronH]

the one that does the best with their will gets the reward, so since all freewillers are sinners, some separate themselves from other sinners which make God choose them above others.

Is it favoritism for God to have a criterion humans must meet, if all are able to meet the criterion? Not at all. By definition it's not favoritism toward the person but toward a response they make. Yes, a response, which scripture explicitly states is not a work.

I think any disinterested 3rd party would agree that it is a greater case of "respecter of persons" on God's part to unilaterally choose some and not others. Whereas the bible's version of God says that all have the same (keyword: same. IOW: not according to some mysterious status, but choice) ability to meet the criterion.

 

[brightfame52]

Is it favoritism for God to have a criterion humans must meet, if all are able to meet the criterion?

Problem is that's not Grace. So if a criteria is set, the favor goes to the one who meets the criteria, respect went to that person, they distinguished themselves from the others. The others they distinguished themselves from had the same opportunities. But the other problem is, man is dead and cant meet any criteria anyway. Yet God has the right to show favor to one dead person and not another.

Yes, a response, which scripture explicitly states is not a work.

Anything you do, an act is a work. The greek word God inspired ergon:

ergon: Work, deed, action, task, labor,

érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

 

[AaronH]

Problem is that's not Grace. So if a criteria is set, the favor goes to the one who meets the criteria, respect went to that person, they distinguished themselves from the others. The others they distinguished themselves from had the same opportunities. But the other problem is, man is dead and cant meet any criteria anyway. Yet God has the right to show favor to one dead person and not another.

How in your model does God choose who he is going to save and who he will not? Must there not be some criteria, or is it completely random - God spinning a cosmic wheel and going with the result? If it's not completely random, there are criteria - its inescapable.

Anything you do, an act is a work. The greek word God inspired ergon:

"For by grace you have been saved through faith.... not a result of works". Faith is not a work according to scripture.

You believe that God is not allowed to leave anything (even a non-work) up to humanity or it's "not grace." This of course is incoherent.

If I agree to pay for a homeless man's meal does it cease to become grace if I don't force-feed him or make it magically appear in his stomach? Does the fact that he has to agree to eat it mean that my act is any less gracious than if I force-fed him so he wouldn't have to do anything? I'll wait.

 

[brightfame52]

How in your model does God choose who he is going to save and who he will not?

His Sovereign prerogative within Himself Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

For by grace you have been saved through faith.... not a result of works". Faith is not a work according to scripture.

Yes that's right when its recognized as a Gift something not in the natural man. but given by the Grace of the Spirit. However the problem with false teachers, they have hijacked Faith from the source of Grace, and made it a virtue, a trait fund in the natural man. So as long as you make it a criteria or feature, trait , characteristic, quality God recognizes in your flesh, it becomes a work, merit base salvation, God becomes a respecter of persons, and a wage payer.