I dont know. If you do tell me. We have had all sorts of debates on baptism from needed for salvation to being appropriate for babies.

[MTMattie]

Can anyone tell me when Mary had her baptism?

As the mother of our savior, why has this not been talked of?

 

[Seabass]

Since rejecting John's baptism would be rejecting the counsel of God (Lk 7:30) Mary and the Apostles would have been baptized with John's baptism else find themselves living in defiance to God's counsel, disobeying God's will.....something they would not do.

 

[Obadiah]

I don't know. But...​

According to Catholic tradition, Mary was baptized by Christ. Although Mary was without original sin and full of grace, she submitted to the sacraments of the New Law, including baptism, confirmation, and the Eucharist. She did this to receive the baptismal character, which is a mark of belonging to Christ.

 

[MTMattie]

I don't know. But...​

According to Catholic tradition, Mary was baptized by Christ. Although Mary was without original sin and full of grace, she submitted to the sacraments of the New Law, including baptism, confirmation, and the Eucharist. She did this to receive the baptismal character, which is a mark of belonging to Christ.

Aargh. The RCC.

Where in the non Catholic bible does it say Mary was baptized by Jesus?

From https://www.catholicplanet.com/RCC/baptism-jesus-mary.htm

The Baptisms of Jesus and Mary
They say.. and I note in bolded red below....

[Matthew]
{3:11} Indeed, I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who will come after me is more powerful than me. I am not worthy to carry his shoes. He will baptize you with the fire of the Holy Spirit.
{3:12} His winnowing fan is in his hand. And he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing floor. And he will gather his wheat into the barn. But the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire."
{3:13} Then Jesus came from Galilee, to John at the Jordan, in order to be baptized by him.
{3:14} But John refused him, saying, "I ought to be baptized by you, and yet you come to me?"
{3:15} And responding, Jesus said to him: "Permit this for now. For in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all justice." Then he allowed him.
{3:16} And Jesus, having been baptized, ascended from the water immediately, and behold, the heavens were opened to him. And he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and alighting on him.
{3:17} And behold, there was a voice from heaven, saying: "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

The baptism of John was not generally the Sacrament of Baptism, but rather a preparation for it. Though John generally baptized for repentance, we know that Jesus had no need of repentance, so the baptism of Jesus by John could not have been the usual type of baptism given by John. Sacred Scripture says that Jesus "having been baptized" came up out of the water. The Holy Spirit was then sent upon Him by the Father, thereby confirming that the baptism of Jesus by John was the full Sacrament of Baptism. The Holy Spirit would not be given to persons who received anything other than a Sacrament. So the baptism of Jesus by John was the full Sacrament of Baptism.

The baptism of Jesus was not necessary, as it is for we sinners, in order to remedy the detriments of original sin (especially the lack of sanctifying grace), for Jesus had no original sin and no personal sin whatsoever. The human nature of Jesus, being united to His Divine Nature from the very first moment of His conception, which was also in the same moment His Incarnation, was sinless and possessed every possible grace at all times. But still Jesus insisted that John baptize Him. First, as an example to all of His followers, so that they would do as He did and accept baptism. Second, because God has chosen Baptism as the means of salvation, such that no human being enters heaven without first having been baptized. Third, so that the human soul of Jesus would have the mark of Baptism, that permanent character on the soul that is found in the baptized followers of Jesus. Thus it was fitting, though not strictly speaking necessary, for Jesus also to be baptized.

The baptism of Jesus was a formal baptism, that is, baptism in a particular ceremony with water and words. The Baptism of Jesus was Trinitarian in that the Father spoke, and He sent the Spirit upon the Son. And so valid baptisms are required by the Church to also be Trinitarian; no one can be validly baptized apart from a true belief in the Trinity.

Now baptism is absolutely required for all human persons to enter eternal life in heaven. But this does not mean that those persons who lack a formal baptism cannot be saved. The other type of baptism is a non-formal baptism, that is, a baptism which has the same effects as formal baptism, but lacking the ceremony with words and water. One example of non-formal baptism is the baptism of blood, given to those who die as martyrs for the Faith prior to a formal baptism. Another example of non-formal baptism is the baptism of desire, when an adult (or a child who is old enough to understand) desires baptism implicitly, but desiring goodness, truth, justice, mercy, true love, and all the good that God has placed in creation and in humanity. Yet another example of non-formal baptism is the baptism given to children who are not old enough to understand, even to infants and prenatals in the womb.

The most illustrious example of this baptism in the womb is found in the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary. Now her Immaculate Conception is certainly much more than a baptism. But just as certainly, the Immaculate Conception includes all that is given in the Sacrament of Baptism, including the character on the souls of the Baptized. For that mark on the soul says that they belong to Christ, and no human person belongs to Christ more fully than His Blessed Mother. So the Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary is an example of a non-formal Baptism given in the womb, in the very first moment of her life, certainly prior to the age of reason.

As a result, we can be certain, based on conclusions drawn from the infallible teachings of the Church on the Immaculate Conception and on the Sacrament of Baptism, that prenatals who die in the womb, and all infants and young children who die before they are old enough to understand fully wrong from right, receive a non-formal Baptism prior to, or at least in the last moment of, life, which is sufficient to bring them into eternal salvation. The type of baptism that they receive is in many ways the same as that received by the Virgin Mary herself, who became the Mother of God.
There are only two types of baptism, formal and non-formal. The baptism of Jesus was a formal baptism. And the baptism of Mary was a non-formal baptism. So in the lives of Jesus and Mary we find the preeminent examples of each type of baptism. Every formal baptism is like the baptism of Jesus. Every non-formal baptism is not only like the baptism of Jesus, but also particularly like the non-formal baptism of Mary.
If anyone claims that prenatals who die in the womb, or infants who die without baptism, are certainly sent to Hell, or to the limbo of Hell, by the Justice of God, as if the Justice of God were without Mercy, or as if the Mercy of God were separate from His Justice, may he be condemned to Hell by the Just Mercy of God for teaching abject heresy.

by Ronald L. Conte Jr.
December 7, 2008

 

[praise_yeshua]

Can anyone tell me when Mary had her baptism?

As the mother of our savior, why has this not been talked of?

There is no record of John (The Baptist) actual baptism. In fact, John said that he needed to be baptized of Jesus.

Mat_3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

Baptism is often misunderstood.

 

[MTMattie]

Since rejecting John's baptism would be rejecting the counsel of God (Lk 7:30) Mary and the Apostles would have been baptized with John's baptism else find themselves living in defiance to God's counsel, disobeying God's will.....something they would not do.

John and Jesus were only about 6 months apart in age. Are you suggesting that until Jesus had His own baptism Mary did not?
Or did Mary get her baptism before Jesus got his for I wonder what sins she added to her life from her purification after Jesus' birth until she heard about John? I dont think we will ever know... and it does not matter... for I am pretty sure that her eternity is secure.

As to the apostles. Would they have been selected because they were baptized or we they baptized after? I think after. In fact... it could be that they could have baptized each other.

However.... enter Nicodemus into the picture.

You may not believe that Jesus is God but do you believe he spoke for God?

John 3: 1-

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”

5. Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

8. The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10. Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

11. Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

12. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

13. No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

14. As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

15. so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

If you have been paying attention you will note that not only does Jesus equate flesh with flesh, he emphasizes the importance of a spirit rebirth and whoever believes in Him (Faith) . NOT WATER... will have eternal life.

We are, more or less told this in John 6:53-58 which shows the important point for all of us, is that Jesus clearly taught that first a person must believe in Him to have life or eternal life, and 2) only those who believe in Him have eternal life. IOW Salvation is only found in Him and no one else (Acts 4:12).

Again water is taking a back seat.

 

[atpollard]

Can anyone tell me when Mary had her baptism?

As the mother of our savior, why has this not been talked of?

What is the purpose of BAPTISM?

• [Act 1:5 NKJV] 5 "for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
• [Act 2:38, 41 NKJV] 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. ... 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added [to them].
• [Act 8:12 NKJV] 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.
• [Act 18:8 NKJV] 8 Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.
• [Act 19:4-5 NKJV] 4 Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus." 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
• [1Co 12:13 NKJV] 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
• [Gal 3:27 NKJV] 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Did Mary need to repent of her unbelief?

 

[101G]

Addressing the OP,
Haven't read all the Posts, but dead men and women do not witness for God. was Matthias baptized in water who replaced Judas? how about Barnabas? was not Paul water baptized? and was not Cornelius baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit? Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word." Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 10:46 "For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter," Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?" (well, all the apostles were water baptized according to Peter). Acts 10:48 "And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."

but here is something else to think about, was not John the Baptist father Zacharias filled with the Holy Spirit, and remember he was under the OT Covenant, as well as many other who were baptized of his son John. and he, Zacharias, was filled with the Holy Spirit before water baptism. Luke 1:67 "And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,"

now one last question to think on. was John baptism from Heaven or men. (see Matthews 2:25 -27), and when did God give the order not to baptize in water anymore? the record states, Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:" and where is the scripture from the Lord Jesus commanding anyone to stop baptizing with water in his name? book chapter and verse...... showing the command from God to stop water baptizing.

again, as said, DEAD MEN CANNOT WITNESS, ONLY ALIVE MEN WITNESS. this is why the two witnesses John the Baptist, and the Lord Jesus came. and their witness are in the earth today. the Gospel, and Water Baptism. their witness is still witnessing today, even as we speak. this is why water baptism is so important, it shows our deaths, by having our consciousness in repentance by believing the GOSPEL. 1 Peter 3:20 "Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" 1 Peter 3:22 "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." it is the Spirit that gives us new life. for water baptism shows our DEATHS. and the Spirit shows our NEW LIFE in Christ Jesus.

this is why many congregations, (NOT THE CHURH, GOD'S BODY), but local congregations are in such confusion today. because they do not believe....... "angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."
many believe men, or as our brother Jude states, Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." JUST KEEP READING THE CHAPTER, IT'S ONLY ONE CHAPTER. . this is the state of many men today. obey God, and LIVE.

so, where is the Command from God the Lord Jesus commanding anyone to stop baptizing with water?

101G.

 

[Seabass]

John and Jesus were only about 6 months apart in age. Are you suggesting that until Jesus had His own baptism Mary did not?
Or did Mary get her baptism before Jesus got his for I wonder what sins she added to her life from her purification after Jesus' birth until she heard about John? I dont think we will ever know... and it does not matter... for I am pretty sure that her eternity is secure.

As to the apostles. Would they have been selected because they were baptized or we they baptized after? I think after. In fact... it could be that they could have baptized each other.

However.... enter Nicodemus into the picture.

You may not believe that Jesus is God but do you believe he spoke for God?

John 3: 1-

3 Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews this man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.” Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

4 Nicodemus *said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?”

5. Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

8. The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

9 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can these things be?”

10. Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not understand these things?

11. Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know and testify of what we have seen, and you do not accept our testimony.

12. If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

13. No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

14. As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;

15. so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

If you have been paying attention you will note that not only does Jesus equate flesh with flesh, he emphasizes the importance of a spirit rebirth and whoever believes in Him (Faith) . NOT WATER... will have eternal life.

We are, more or less told this in John 6:53-58 which shows the important point for all of us, is that Jesus clearly taught that first a person must believe in Him to have life or eternal life, and 2) only those who believe in Him have eternal life. IOW Salvation is only found in Him and no one else (Acts 4:12).

Again water is taking a back seat.

I do not know when Mary or the Apostles would have been baptized or the order they were baptized, but they would have been baptized.

Jn 3:5 proper interpretation requires words be taken at their primary, literal meaning and there is nothing in the context shows water is being used figuratively, hence water means literal water as Spirit means literal SPirit.

 

[MTMattie]

I do not know when Mary or the Apostles would have been baptized or the order they were baptized, but they would have been baptized.

Jn 3:5 proper interpretation requires words be taken at their primary, literal meaning and there is nothing in the context shows water is being used figuratively, hence water means literal water as Spirit means literal SPirit.

I submit it would be after Jesus began His ministry because before that the only quasi-baptisms were the Jewish Mikvehs, until John started his baptism ministry.. which of course was close to the time of Jesus'

But, as you say Jn 3:5 proper interpretation requires words be taken at their primary, literal meaning and there is nothing in the context shows water is being used figuratively

Yet I read things differently.

John 3:5 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Then you get to the next verse...

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So taking things litereally we should see the word flesh in John 3:6 refers to the human body and human nature, as it does in John 1:14. ( The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.)

The idea is that like produces like. In other words, human birth produces people who belong to an earthly family, but not to the family of God (John 1:12 ~ Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—).

It is the Holy Spirit who produces a new birth that makes us children of God ( John 6:63..... The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit... Romans 8:16......The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.)

Ill stop now lest I get more carried away.

 

[Seabass]

I submit it would be after Jesus began His ministry because before that the only quasi-baptisms were the Jewish Mikvehs, until John started his baptism ministry.. which of course was close to the time of Jesus'

But, as you say Jn 3:5 proper interpretation requires words be taken at their primary, literal meaning and there is nothing in the context shows water is being used figuratively

Yet I read things differently.

John 3:5 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Then you get to the next verse...

John 3:6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

So taking things litereally we should see the word flesh in John 3:6 refers to the human body and human nature, as it does in John 1:14. ( The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.)

The idea is that like produces like. In other words, human birth produces people who belong to an earthly family, but not to the family of God (John 1:12 ~ Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—).

It is the Holy Spirit who produces a new birth that makes us children of God ( John 6:63..... The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit... Romans 8:16......The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.)

Ill stop now lest I get more carried away.

Not wanting water to mean literal water is based on theological bias not context. Water means literal water in Jn 3:5 as it means literal water in Jn 3:23.

John 3:5 ----------------Spirit +++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
Eph 5:26——-----------word +++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> cleansed
1 Cor 12:13—---------Spirit +++++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>> in the body
Tts 3:5 --------------Holy Ghost +++++++++washing of reg. >>>>>> saved

Since the BIble does not contradict itself and there is but just one way to be saved/be born again, then all verses MUST teach the exact same idea. And we find from these verses that the element of baptism is water and the Agent being the Spirit. The Agent teaching men to be saved/cleansed/in the kingdom/in the body by being water baptized.

It becomes very clear when comparing verses, that water is the ELEMENT in baptism and the Spirit is the Agent. So the Spirit's role in the new birth is teaching men how to be saved by being baptized and water being the element. Note the case of the eunuch in Acts 8 where the Spirit sent for Phillip to teach the eunuch and WATER baptize him....the eunuch went on his way saved though he was not 'spirit' baptized meaning some kind of 'spirit' baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation. So the idea of Holy Spirit baptism is just another attempt to get around the BIble's teaching on the necessity of being water baptized.

Furthermore, we see from Jn 3 this new birth is how one gains entrance into the kingdom...and from Mt 7:21 doing the will of the Father is how one gains entrance into the kingdom:

Jn 3----------------born of water and of the Spirit >>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Mt 7:21------------doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Mt 18:3-------------be converted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom

Since there is just one way to be saved/enter the kingdom, and the Bible does not contradict itself, then being born of water and of the Spirit would be DOING the will of God. God has commanded water baptism and those who obediently submit to being water baptized are in fact doing the will of the Father/are being born again therefore enter the kingdom.....there is no being born again, no conversion apart from DOING the will of the Father.

One MUST be born again hence one MUST obey God's command to be water baptized. Those that are not born again are so due to their own choice and will be held accountable for that choice by God.

================================================================

In the physical birth there is a begetting (implanting of seed by the Father) , a bringing forth (delivery by the mother) and a state into which one enters (new relationship formed with family members)

Likewise in the new birth we find:

begetting------the seed, the word of God (Lk 8:11), written by the Holy Spirit, is implanted in the heart upon hearing the word (Rom 10:17). Hence people are 'begotten by the word of God' (1 Pet 1:23) 'begat through the gospel' (1 Cor 4:15) begat by the word of truth (James 1:18). Hence the Holy Spirit's role in the new birth as the Agent is to teach men the gospel....teach men how to be saved by water baptism through His word.

Men therefore are begotten by the Spirit.

delivery ---- when men are water baptized as commanded by the Spirit in His word, men are resurrected, are brought from that watey grave to walk in newness of life.

Water is the element.

enter a new state ---- those who done the will of the Father by being water baptized 'enter the kingdom' (Col 1:13) are now members of the kingdom (Jn 3:5; Mt 7:21), the church of Christ (Mt 16:18-19; Acts 2:47) a brother/sister of all those who are in Christ.



A new Christian in the kingdom being the result of the new birth. Mt 18:3 one is converted "Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Further info:

What Does It Mean To Be a Born Again Christian?

Jesus said that unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of God. So, what does it mean to be born again? Let's explore the Bible for an answer to this important question.

christiancourier.com

 

[MTMattie]

Not wanting water to mean literal water is based on theological bias not context. Water means literal water in Jn 3:5 as it means literal water in Jn 3:23.

John 3:5 ----------------Spirit +++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
Eph 5:26——-----------word +++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> cleansed
1 Cor 12:13—---------Spirit +++++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>> in the body
Tts 3:5 --------------Holy Ghost +++++++++washing of reg. >>>>>> saved

Since the BIble does not contradict itself and there is but just one way to be saved/be born again, then all verses MUST teach the exact same idea. And we find from these verses that the element of baptism is water and the Agent being the Spirit. The Agent teaching men to be saved/cleansed/in the kingdom/in the body by being water baptized.

It becomes very clear when comparing verses, that water is the ELEMENT in baptism and the Spirit is the Agent. So the Spirit's role in the new birth is teaching men how to be saved by being baptized and water being the element. Note the case of the eunuch in Acts 8 where the Spirit sent for Phillip to teach the eunuch and WATER baptize him....the eunuch went on his way saved though he was not 'spirit' baptized meaning some kind of 'spirit' baptism has NOTHING to do with salvation. So the idea of Holy Spirit baptism is just another attempt to get around the BIble's teaching on the necessity of being water baptized.

Furthermore, we see from Jn 3 this new birth is how one gains entrance into the kingdom...and from Mt 7:21 doing the will of the Father is how one gains entrance into the kingdom:

Jn 3----------------born of water and of the Spirit >>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Mt 7:21------------doeth the will of the Father >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom
Mt 18:3-------------be converted >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enter the kingdom

Since there is just one way to be saved/enter the kingdom, and the Bible does not contradict itself, then being born of water and of the Spirit would be DOING the will of God. God has commanded water baptism and those who obediently submit to being water baptized are in fact doing the will of the Father/are being born again therefore enter the kingdom.....there is no being born again, no conversion apart from DOING the will of the Father.

One MUST be born again hence one MUST obey God's command to be water baptized. Those that are not born again are so due to their own choice and will be held accountable for that choice by God.

================================================================

In the physical birth there is a begetting (implanting of seed by the Father) , a bringing forth (delivery by the mother) and a state into which one enters (new relationship formed with family members)

Likewise in the new birth we find:

begetting------the seed, the word of God (Lk 8:11), written by the Holy Spirit, is implanted in the heart upon hearing the word (Rom 10:17). Hence people are 'begotten by the word of God' (1 Pet 1:23) 'begat through the gospel' (1 Cor 4:15) begat by the word of truth (James 1:18). Hence the Holy Spirit's role in the new birth as the Agent is to teach men the gospel....teach men how to be saved by water baptism through His word.

Men therefore are begotten by the Spirit.

delivery ---- when men are water baptized as commanded by the Spirit in His word, men are resurrected, are brought from that watey grave to walk in newness of life.

Water is the element.

enter a new state ---- those who done the will of the Father by being water baptized 'enter the kingdom' (Col 1:13) are now members of the kingdom (Jn 3:5; Mt 7:21), the church of Christ (Mt 16:18-19; Acts 2:47) a brother/sister of all those who are in Christ.



A new Christian in the kingdom being the result of the new birth. Mt 18:3 one is converted "Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven."

Further info:

What Does It Mean To Be a Born Again Christian?

Jesus said that unless you are born again you cannot see the kingdom of God. So, what does it mean to be born again? Let's explore the Bible for an answer to this important question.

christiancourier.com

But not for Nicodemus.

 

[dwight92070]

Seabass said:
Not wanting water to mean literal water is based on theological bias not context. Water means literal water in Jn 3:5 as it means literal water in Jn 3:23.

John 3:5 ----------------Spirit +++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
Eph 5:26——-----------word +++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> cleansed
1 Cor 12:13—---------Spirit +++++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>> in the body
Tts 3:5 --------------Holy Ghost +++++++++washing of reg. >>>>>> saved

Obviously you are mistaken, taking all four verses OUT of context.

John 3:5 Jesus Himself initiated the context of being born (from above) in verse 3. Nicodemus, not understanding that, thought he was referring to childbirth, and so asked if a man could enter his mother's womb and be born a second time, in verse 5. So Jesus met him where he was at and explained that one must be first born of water, which is natural childbirth, but also born of the Spirit, which is spiritual "childbirth" - or being born again.
The meaning of water here is literal, meaning the water inside the mother's womb. All babies are literally born of or out of the water in their mother's womb. Theological bias is what leads some to think this refers to baptism, but baptism is not even mentioned here.


Ephesians 5:26 Here's an example where Paul uses the word "water" figuratively. By the way, there's no spiritual rule that says that the word "water" must always be used literally. In fact if you use it literally in this verse, to be consistent, you must also use the words "cleansed her" and "with the word" literally. So you end up with Jesus using a scroll of scripture and a bucket of water to literally wash his disciples bodies. When you end up with a sentence that is total nonsense like that one, then you know that the statement is meant to be taken figuratively, not literally.
Jesus sanctifies and cleanses us from our sins, using the "brush and water" of the word, which is synonymous with being born again. Peter uses another metaphor for the new birth in 1 Peter 1:23. He likens it to a seed planted in a woman's womb, which is very similar to John 3. The seed is the word of God and the womb is our hearts. Then the woman gives birth to a new baby, which is what a new Christian is compared to.

1 Corinthians 12:13 Even as the word "water" is not always referring to literal water, so the word "baptized" does not always refer to literal water baptism. For example, Jesus asked James and John, "Are you able ... to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?" Mark 10:38 He was referring to His martyrdom. So likewise in 1 Corinthians 12:13, the baptism referred to here is not water baptism. How do we know that? First of all, it is the Holy Spirit doing the baptizing, not a man, as it would be in water baptism. Second, the person being baptized by the Holy Spirit is not being put into water - he is being put into the body of Christ. Although the Holy Spirit literally puts us into the body of Christ, it is not something that is visible. It is an invisible, spiritual experience, which is just what we would expect because Jesus likened the Holy Spirit to the wind, again in John 3:8, which we can't see. Also in that verse He said, "... so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." Again, there's no mention here of water baptism.
Paul uses the same terminology in two other places: Romans 6:3 " ... all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus ..." and Galatians 3:27 "For all of you who were baptized into Christ ..."

Titus 3:5 "He saved us, ... by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit." Paul does not mention water baptism here either. Rather he uses the figurative and spiritual terms of being washed and renewed to describe being born again.

 

[dwight92070]

Can anyone tell me when Mary had her baptism?

As the mother of our savior, why has this not been talked of?

All of Christ's disciples, including His twelve apostles and Mary and many others, must have baptized each other, since Jesus Himself baptized no one in water. See John 4:1 Also we know that several of the twelve (and others) had already been baptized by John, but I am quite sure that they would have to be baptized again in the name of Jesus, since they were no longer following John, but now they were following Jesus. Remember Paul came across some disciples of John in Acts 19:1-7 When they heard about Jesus and believed, Paul baptized them again "in the name of the Lord Jesus." There were also some who became disciples during Christ's ministry, after John was gone, so they would only need to be baptized in Jesus' name.

 

[Seabass]

But not for Nicodemus.

???

 

[Seabass]

Seabass said:
Not wanting water to mean literal water is based on theological bias not context. Water means literal water in Jn 3:5 as it means literal water in Jn 3:23.

John 3:5 ----------------Spirit +++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
Eph 5:26——-----------word +++++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> cleansed
1 Cor 12:13—---------Spirit +++++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>> in the body
Tts 3:5 --------------Holy Ghost +++++++++washing of reg. >>>>>> saved

Obviously you are mistaken, taking all four verses OUT of context.

John 3:5 Jesus Himself initiated the context of being born (from above) in verse 3. Nicodemus, not understanding that, thought he was referring to childbirth, and so asked if a man could enter his mother's womb and be born a second time, in verse 5. So Jesus met him where he was at and explained that one must be first born of water, which is natural childbirth, but also born of the Spirit, which is spiritual "childbirth" - or being born again.
The meaning of water here is literal, meaning the water inside the mother's womb. All babies are literally born of or out of the water in their mother's womb. Theological bias is what leads some to think this refers to baptism, but baptism is not even mentioned here.


Ephesians 5:26 Here's an example where Paul uses the word "water" figuratively. By the way, there's no spiritual rule that says that the word "water" must always be used literally. In fact if you use it literally in this verse, to be consistent, you must also use the words "cleansed her" and "with the word" literally. So you end up with Jesus using a scroll of scripture and a bucket of water to literally wash his disciples bodies. When you end up with a sentence that is total nonsense like that one, then you know that the statement is meant to be taken figuratively, not literally.
Jesus sanctifies and cleanses us from our sins, using the "brush and water" of the word, which is synonymous with being born again. Peter uses another metaphor for the new birth in 1 Peter 1:23. He likens it to a seed planted in a woman's womb, which is very similar to John 3. The seed is the word of God and the womb is our hearts. Then the woman gives birth to a new baby, which is what a new Christian is compared to.

1 Corinthians 12:13 Even as the word "water" is not always referring to literal water, so the word "baptized" does not always refer to literal water baptism. For example, Jesus asked James and John, "Are you able ... to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?" Mark 10:38 He was referring to His martyrdom. So likewise in 1 Corinthians 12:13, the baptism referred to here is not water baptism. How do we know that? First of all, it is the Holy Spirit doing the baptizing, not a man, as it would be in water baptism. Second, the person being baptized by the Holy Spirit is not being put into water - he is being put into the body of Christ. Although the Holy Spirit literally puts us into the body of Christ, it is not something that is visible. It is an invisible, spiritual experience, which is just what we would expect because Jesus likened the Holy Spirit to the wind, again in John 3:8, which we can't see. Also in that verse He said, "... so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." Again, there's no mention here of water baptism.
Paul uses the same terminology in two other places: Romans 6:3 " ... all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus ..." and Galatians 3:27 "For all of you who were baptized into Christ ..."

Titus 3:5 "He saved us, ... by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit." Paul does not mention water baptism here either. Rather he uses the figurative and spiritual terms of being washed and renewed to describe being born again.

Jesus was NOT speaking about the physical birth in Jn 3:5 but the spiritual birth hence the water here does not FIGURATIVELY refer to the water in the mother's womb at birth. Water in Jn 3:5 refers to literal water as the literal water Phillip baptized the eunuch in.

Furthermore, Nicodemus had ALREADY been physically born, yet Jesus was speaking about a new birth in Jn 3:5 Nicodemus had not yet experienced. Jesus would realize a full grown adult as Nicodemus had already been physically born.