How do the unsaved suffer forever in hell without the Tree of Life?

[charismaticlady]

1 Corinthians 13:8-10

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


The real question we really have to ask ourselves is: Do we believe Jesus, or man?

We believe Jesus. Man tells us that the gifts of the Spirit that are part of the New Covenant have ceased. They are simply unbelievers in the power of God. But the Spirit of Jesus told Paul that when we see Him "face to face," then those things in part about God will be fully known and not like now just seeing Him as in a dark glass. The new heaven and new earth where we will see and know God fully as He knows us now is the perfect. We sure aren't living in the perfect yet.

So, who do you believe? Jesus or an unbelieving man like John Calvin who started cessationism among other blasphemies?

 

[charismaticlady]

@Victoria,

Also, don't you know what Jesus said of the Old Covenant that not one dot or tittle will be removed until all is fulfilled. That meant when JESUS fulfilled the COVENANT. It is the same with the New Covenant. It is a COVENANT. Nothing inside a covenant will be removed or done away until the maker of the covenant ends it Himself. That is why 1 Corinthians 13 shows us that Jesus will fulfill the New Covenant when He comes again and we SEE HIM FACE TO FACE. 1 Corinthians 13:12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

You seem to like the teachings of man over Jesus. You have a brilliant mind. Use it. Look at your verses this way.

9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is PERFECT has come, then that which is in part will be done away...12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then FACE TO FACE. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. (See perfec

V, even seeing God through what the Bible says about Him is not the same as actually seeing Him face to face and knowing God just as I also am known by Him. Can you see how your teachers short changed you? Leave all denominations of man in the dust and study for yourself. I can help you, because in the year 2000, God spoke to me while I was driving alone through the Arizona desert and said, "I am giving you the office of Teacher." He wiped my mind of all man-made interpretations of His Word, and taught me Himself, just as He taught Paul the original Words. That is why I don't fit in any local church, though I attend different ones for fellowship. But, I teach those church pastors what God has revealed is the true, one and only, correct interpretation of what He gave Paul. I also know the difference between the opinions of Paul, and Paul's inspired Words from God. Like in 1 Corinthians 7. 12 But to the rest I, not the Lord, say...

 

[JesusFan]

I hear what you're saying about the Great Commission being for us today. But help me walk through a logic puzzle in 1 Corinthians 1. If Paul was operating under the command of Matthew 28, where Jesus says to go & baptize all nations, why would Paul specifically say in verse 17, 'For Christ sent me not to baptize'? If he were under the Great Commission, wouldn't saying that be a direct admission of disobedience to Jesus?

No, rather it was hi assigning and placing major emphasis upon the Gospel itself, the cross and resurrection of Christ, and not getting into infant regeneration

 

[JesusFan]

We are already in the period of falling away. The Laodecian Church age. It started with the false doctrines of the Reformation. "You have a name/reputation that you are alive, but you are dead."

The doctrines that came out of the Reformation are what Lion's Mane and you have swallowed like Kool-Aid.

The Reformation was God sent, as Rome had came very close to perverting and destroying the true Gospel , and though not inspired, Calvin, beza, and the reformers far superior to so called Theologians of the modern day Charasmatic Chaos

 

[JesusFan]

But there are still people experiencing the gift of prophecy today. Do you, at least, believe that?

Gift of prophecy NOT operating as a prophet, as prophecies can be false many times, but when a prophet in the Bible stated "thus sayith the Lord' was revelation from God

 

[JesusFan]

I agree that many in church are not saved, but the evidence of salvation isn't the disappearance of temptation, it's the possession of Christ's righteousness. By claiming the sin nature is gone, you're calling Paul a liar in Romans 7. We don't overcome the flesh by pretending it isn't there, we reckon it dead by faith & walk in the Spirit.

We aren't born again into the kingdom, we're baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ the moment we believe (1 Corinthians 12:13). Salvation today isn't based on surrendering or commitment, which can become a work, but on trusting exclusively in the finished work of the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30).

If salvation depends on the quality of our surrender or the total absence of desire for sin, then salvation is maintained by human effort. Our standing before God is based on Christ's performance, not the disappearance of our carnal desires (Ephesians 2:8-9).

If you truly have no desire to sin, then you're the first person since Jesus Christ to achieve it, & Paul, who called himself the 'chief of sinners' (1 Timothy 1:15) in the present tense late in his life, clearly didn't reach your level of perfection.

Being 'not in the flesh' is our position in Christ's court, not our physical reality in this world. If we were physically 'not in the flesh,' we wouldn't need to wait for the 'redemption of our body' in Romans 8:23. Why would you groan for the redemption of your body if your sin nature was already gone?

You say the sin nature was removed in 1977. If that were true, why did Paul say in Romans 8:23 that even we who have the firstfruits of the Spirit groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body? If your sin nature is gone, your body is redeemed. If your body is redeemed, why do you still age, & why will that body eventually see corruption? The removal of the 'body of sin' is a future event at the resurrection.

I appreciate your testimony of a changed life. However, the Bible describes the Christian life as a warfare. We cannot have a war if one side has been completely removed. In Galatians 5, Paul tells the Spirit-filled believers that the flesh lusteth against the Spirit. If you don't feel that lust/desire, you aren't describing the Christian life Paul wrote about, you're describing a state of perfection that the Bible says is impossible this side of glory.

By claiming you have no sin nature, you're essentially saying you no longer need the Advocacy of Christ or the daily grace Paul speaks of. But 1 John 1:8 is clear: 'If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.' I’d rather trust what Paul says about my wretched flesh (Romans 7:24) & Christ’s sufficient grace than trust my own feelings of being sinless.

Here's the contradiction in your argument:

If the 'new nature' makes coveting impossible, why does Paul spend so much time in his epistles warning saved members of the Body of Christ against it? In Ephesians 5:3, he tells the saints that covetousness should not even be named among them. If they were incapable of it, his warning would be a waste of ink.

You're right about the spiritual circumcision of Colossians 2, but you’re missing the 'why.' That circumcision separates our identity from our flesh so that our fleshly sins don't condemn us. It doesn't vaporize the fleshly desires, it just means we're no longer 'in the flesh' legally before God, even though we still live 'in the flesh' physically (Galatians 2:20).

To say a believer has no struggle isn't a sign of being born again, it’s a denial of the very warfare Paul describes in Galatians 5:17. If we have no struggle, we aren't in the fight. The struggle is actually the greatest evidence that the Spirit is present, resisting the flesh that is still very much there.

You say Peter is for Gentiles, but Paul says in Galatians 2:8 that the apostleship of the circumcision was for Peter. If you place yourself in Peter's audience, you're following doctrine for Israel. I place myself in Paul's audience b/c he's the apostle of the Gentiles (Romans 11:13) & his letters are the operating manual for the Body of Christ today.

If we truly have no desire to sin, why does Paul warn the Galatians, who were born of the Spirit, to walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16)? If the lust weren't there, there would be nothing to 'not fulfil.' The very existence of Paul’s warnings proves that the believer still has a nature capable of desiring sin.

Calling the church 'Spiritual Israel' is a tradition, but it’s not in Paul’s letters. Paul says we are a 'new creature' where there is 'neither Jew nor Greek.' If we're Israel, we have a King & a Law. If we're the Body, we have a Head & Grace. You're trying to live in a future kingdom reality while we're still in a body of death waiting for redemption (Romans 8:23). As I've made mention before, Paul says we'll be in the heavens, not in the kingdom on the earth (Colossians 3:2; Philippians 3:20).

Why are we commanded to submit to the Holy Spirit and yield to Him, if we have no longer any sin nature to actual deal with anymore?

 

[JesusFan]

1 Corinthians 13:8-10

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.


The real question we really have to ask ourselves is: Do we believe Jesus, or man?

Why any more need for prophecies since in the Bible is all that God ever has revealed and stated to us for now to use and have?

 

[JesusFan]

I'm not the one calling Paul a liar. You choose to not read Romans chapters one through eight in context. It is one teaching. He is plainly talking about imputed righteousness before the Law (Abraham); how righteousness was given to those under the Law about David by his repentance; why the Law was given Galatians 3:19 SIN; and the difference Jesus coming and dying on the cross for us freed us from not only the Law, but from the sin it produced in us, Romans 6:5-7. And the conclusion of the teaching in chapter eight. "The law of life in Christ has FREED ME FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH!!! In other words, Romans 8:2 freed us from Romans 7:7-25 That is willful ignorance. Don't you know that Jesus is the Creator? 1 John 3:5 says He was manifest to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, AND IN HIM IS NO SIN. He didn't leave the desire to sin in us? NO! He cleansed us from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS!!! What good is that if He left us like Adam, with only his willpower to choose to obey or not. Jesus puts His Own Powerful Spirit in us, that overpowers the desire to sin in our conscience. Even in chapter one Paul says, 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “The just shall live by faith.”

Your false teachers of defeatism and blasphemy against Jesus as the Christ, teach you that you still have the sin nature in you from Adam. Or that you have two natures leaving the "old man" still in you alive and well! We still have free will, but Paul says, why sin if you don't have to? Romans 6:4.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Again, false teachers claiming our righteousness cannot be real, but only an invisibility cloak to hide the sin underneath. Let's see if you have the desire to sin that I was freed from on Feb. 9, 1977. Galatians 5:19-21 "19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.



Again, another false teaching that our body is our sin nature. NO! Our body is just like a floppy puppet that only comes to life by the spirit and soul which is what makes up our nature - the puppet masters. The spirit is our mind Romans 7:25, and our soul is our conscience, either filled with the devil, or with the Holy Spirit. 1 John 3:21-24. Our nature is our inner being, not the outer shell. That is why our body is not transformed during our lifetime. Only our inner being, our nature that is either full of willful sin, or righteousness.

Galatians 5:17 the "spirit" is the same as Romans 7;25 where the mind of our old nature fights against the flesh (the sin nature, not our body) in Romans 7:25. It is not the Holy Spirit, otherwise, they would be walking in the Spirit. That is why our spirit and soul must be born again now. It is not our body that makes us sin, but our nature. We have the mind of Christ, not sin. 1 Corinthians 2:16.

Yes, our body grows old, but we are responsible to purify ourselves and to keep ourselves. Why? Because of false teachers of demons trying to convince us we still belong to the devil and must fight him daily. But as for myself, Satan cannot touch me. 1 John 5:18.

In that section, Paul is teaching that the Law is holy. Period! There is nothing wrong about the Laws of God.

Even though it shows us our sin, the sin was already there and why we needed an Advocate to free us from the law of sin and death. 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. (Period) And if anyone sins, we (mankind) have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

This is not saying that a Christian will sin again. NO! We have been freed from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! How much? ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL! While we were yet sinners, Jesus died for us and is mankind's Advocate. False teachers really do make you look for any excuse to sin. That's why what they teach are called doctrines of demons, like: "That circumcision separates our identity from our flesh so that our fleshly sins don't condemn us." Wow! Straight out of a demon's handbook!

Go back to the Bible and stop being a blaspheming denominationalist! SIN CONDEMNS US. Jesus came and died to TAKE AWAY OUR SIN, NOT LEAVE US IN IT! Our righteousness is real, not a fairy tale. Fairies are demons, by the way.


There are two types of sins. Sins unto death. And sins NOT unto death. Paul only talks about sins unto death (the wages of sin is death). We MUST go to Peter in order to be holy as Jesus taught, and not just righteous. Revelation 22:11. Holy is perfection. Jesus told us to be holy as I am holy. Both Peter and Paul wrote SCRIPTURE for the whole world, both Jew and Gentile. Romans 1:16-17, for the Jew first, and also for the Greek. Paul said, "ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Peter teaches on how to become complete. Scoff if you like, but you are disobeying Jesus, and Paul.

It is not just "tradition" to include Gentiles into Israel. It is Scripture. Romans 11. Gentiles are Israel's "other offspring," in Revelation 12:17.

The "flesh" (Greek: sarx) in a biblical context refers to the fallen, carnal human nature that is inclined toward sin and selfish desire. It is considered the internal root of sin, distinct from the physical body itself, though it often acts through it. The flesh wars against the spirit, often leading to actions contrary to God's will.
We will deal with that until either death or the Second Coming event

 

[charismaticlady]

The Reformation was God sent, as Rome had came very close to perverting and destroying the true Gospel , and though not inspired, Calvin, beza, and the reformers far superior to so called Theologians of the modern day Charasmatic Chaos

Charismatic Chaos? Wow, that is telling isn't it. So you like John MacArthur who wrote a book by that name?

The only Reformationist worth anything was John Wesley who arrived 200 years after it started. Jesus said of him, I believe, Rev. 3:4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. But of John Calvin and Martin Luther Jesus said, " “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.

 

[charismaticlady]

The "flesh" (Greek: sarx) in a biblical context refers to the fallen, carnal human nature that is inclined toward sin and selfish desire. It is considered the internal root of sin, distinct from the physical body itself, though it often acts through it. The flesh wars against the spirit, often leading to actions contrary to God's will.

Correct! Very good, JF! The "flesh" does refer to the fallen carnal human nature of an unbeliever!

You quoted "the flesh wars against the spirit, often leading to actions contrary to God's will. Are you quoting Galatians 5:17? That is not a Christian who is known to walking in the Spirit. All those listed in Galatians 5:19-21 which verse 17 is about, are not inheriting the Kingdom of God.

We will deal with that until either death or the Second Coming event

We don't have to deal with the carnal human nature! Jesus took sin out of the carnal human nature we were born with. That's what being born again is all about!!!

What did you think Jesus meant by "you must be born again."

 

[Keiw1]

God real name is Yahweh

YHWH or YHVH in Hebrew. Our bibles are not written in Hebrew.